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Post by els36 on Oct 29, 2023 11:57:08 GMT -6
We had 2 really really good back to back seasons. This past season was not very good. We were inexperienced at spots but overall we felt we were not as mentally or physically tough as years past. Just trying to generate ideas to develop toughness this off-season (goal is always to have kids in other sports) for those not in sports. I know Twitter gurus blow up about the word “toughness” but I believe football will always require it.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 29, 2023 13:02:06 GMT -6
I'll answer this question the same way I always answer it-
Weight. Room.
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Post by CS on Oct 29, 2023 13:11:53 GMT -6
I'll answer this question the same way I always answer it- Weight. Room. This |
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Post by mariner42 on Oct 29, 2023 15:16:48 GMT -6
We had 2 really really good back to back seasons. This past season was not very good. We were inexperienced at spots but overall we felt we were not as mentally or physically tough as years past. Just trying to generate ideas to develop toughness this off-season (goal is always to have kids in other sports) for those not in sports. I know Twitter gurus blow up about the word “toughness” but I believe football will always require it. Define it with a concrete example where you felt your team was lacking. |
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Post by chi5hi on Oct 30, 2023 2:14:50 GMT -6
Physical toughness is easy. Weight Room.
Mental toughness is another thing. it's up to the individual. It's his personality. You need both to play this game.
You can try to teach and inspire it...give examples of it...but you can't install mental toughness.
Some kids are lumberjacks and some are crybabies.
In high school I played against Rocky Long. The little guy hit like a Rhino. That was not taught or inspired by a coach. It was him.
The weight room can give you a 6'2", 240 pound kid...but if he's a crybaby he ain't worth a broke dick.
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Post by CS on Oct 30, 2023 3:42:44 GMT -6
Physical toughness is easy. Weight Room. Mental toughness is another thing. it's up to the individual. It's his personality. You need both to play this game. You can try to teach and inspire it...give examples of it...but you can't install mental toughness. Some kids are lumberjacks and some are crybabies. In high school I played against Rocky Long. The little guy hit like a Rhino. That was not taught or inspired by a coach. It was him. The weight room can give you a 6'2", 240 pound kid...but if he's a crybaby he ain't worth a broke dick. He ain’t worth a broke dick is now my favorite phrase |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 30, 2023 5:38:37 GMT -6
The weight room can give you a 6'2", 240 pound kid...but if he's a crybaby he ain't worth a broke dick. It can, but have you ever known a serious weight room guy who's a {censored}? I know plenty of beach body lifters who were {censored}, but I've never met someone who'll get in a squat rack every day and torture their legs who was. |
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Post by silkyice on Oct 30, 2023 6:05:09 GMT -6
In general,
90% of all players will be perform, compete, and be “tough enough”, if they
1) get as strong and fast as they can
2) get in shape
3) know what to do
4) and know how to do it
Take any of those 4 away and you start to run into major problems.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Oct 30, 2023 6:59:20 GMT -6
Ass to grass
Butt in the basement
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Post by veerman on Oct 30, 2023 7:33:03 GMT -6
Being Physical is not something you do, It's something you are IMO. Now being physically tough can be more along the lines of how much pain you can endure before you crack. Now can you increase the physically tough threshold with drills? (tackling,wrestling, weight room, and whatever hand to hand drills you can think of...) I think as coaches we think we can, BUT the Being Physical ceiling is set by the individual not the coach. He has to have it in him, and it's not natural to be excited to bringing pain on your body as long as the other person is experiencing more. These are the guys that are going to throw their bodies around knowing pain is coming. Being bigger helps this but in no way does being strong in the weight room make you a more Physical player. It increases the ability of the physical players but does not create the physical player.
Mental toughness is your overall breaking point: I think there is a good clip of Saban talking about this.
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Post by veerwego on Oct 30, 2023 8:41:50 GMT -6
As an OL player and coach, I always thought the lines along with the backs and the LBs set a tone for this. When I started coaching and realized that every team didn't have their lineman get in the chutes and get after it Mon-Wed, I realized why my high school (best program in the state in the 90s, 4 titles and a runner up) won so many games in the 3rd and early 4th quarter, just beating people into submission. We got after it in team too a couple times per week.
Too many teams back off now and don't hit and tackle at practice. That being said, I coached a team that won it all and was loaded, and we had to back off or they would kill each other, so it is possible to be physical without getting after it everyday at practice. However, most schools don't have this problem.
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Post by 60zgo on Oct 30, 2023 9:02:01 GMT -6
They come to us with a ceiling. Some kids have more of the "it" factor.
It's our job to get them to the ceiling.
1. Weight Room (not because of strength, that's secondary. It's hard. It's work. It builds confidence)
2. Sleds/Tires/Trucks. Push / Pull heavy things. See above.
3. Play other sports: Baseball/Basketball/Wrestling/Track/Whatever... Compete, Compete, Compete.
4. Matt Drills with purpose. Learning to tumble and throw yourself around is becoming a lost art for children.
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Post by CS on Oct 30, 2023 9:23:40 GMT -6
In general, 90% of all players will be perform, compete, and be “tough enough”, if they 1) get as strong and fast as they can 2) get in shape 3) know what to do 4) and know how to do it Take any of those 4 away and you start to run into major problems. This also. Graduate level "this" |
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Post by irishdog on Oct 30, 2023 9:25:19 GMT -6
They come to us with a ceiling. Some kids have more of the "it" factor. It's our job to get them to the ceiling. 1. Weight Room (not because of strength, that's secondary. It's hard. It's work. It builds confidence) 2. Sleds/Tires/Trucks. Push / Pull heavy things. See above. 3. Play other sports: Baseball/Basketball/Wrestling/Track/Whatever... Compete, Compete, Compete. 4. Matt Drills with purpose. Learning to tumble and throw yourself around is becoming a lost art for children. Couldn't agree more. 1. Weight Room builds strength. Strength builds confidence. Confidence builds mental toughness. 2. Make those sled/tires/truck events competitive. 3. Play other sports to learn how to compete, yes, but also will help develop football skills. 4. I called them "Mat Wars". (Towel tug 'o' war, Bar hang, Ab face off, King of the Ring, Basketball Push-ups challenge). |
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Post by carookie on Oct 31, 2023 15:05:24 GMT -6
What do you mean by tough? Do you just mean physically strong, or is there something else?
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Post by jg78 on Oct 31, 2023 15:23:53 GMT -6
I would focus on the weight room, being in shape, and good hitting in practice. I would avoid crazy drills and going overboard with it.
One of the most underrated parts of toughness is simply being in shape. I don’t know if he coined the phrase, but I heard Jimmy Johnson once say, “Fatigue makes cowards of us all.”
Having a body that can endure makes it easier for the mind to endure.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 31, 2023 16:28:53 GMT -6
I would focus on the weight room, being in shape, and good hitting in practice. I would avoid crazy drills and going overboard with it. One of the most underrated parts of toughness is simply being in shape. I don’t know if he coined the phrase, but I heard Jimmy Johnson once say, “Fatigue makes cowards of us all.” Having a body that can endure makes it easier for the mind to endure. Jimmy stole that from Vince Lombardi. |
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Post by blb on Oct 31, 2023 16:49:39 GMT -6
Making yourself do what is necessary to be in good physical condition (defined as being able to make it through practice being only mildly uncomfortable) is how you develop mental toughness.
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Post by realdawg on Oct 31, 2023 17:27:10 GMT -6
Do hard things and compete with one another at doing things that are hard. Create adversity and have them overcome it. Start off with thing easier to overcome. And build on it. As someone mentioned. Don’t go overboard or crazy.
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Post by blb on Oct 31, 2023 17:41:48 GMT -6
Do hard things and compete with one another at doing things that are hard. Create adversity and have them overcome it. Start off with thing easier to overcome. And build on it. As someone mentioned. Don’t go overboard or crazy. To be good football players have to take pride in doing difficult things well. |
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Post by realdawg on Oct 31, 2023 19:36:54 GMT -6
Yup. I agree. Guys have a ceiling toughness. You can increase their toughness. But not past that threshold. To do that you have to do hard stuff. Some of that is just weight room stuff. Heavy squats are hard. High rep squats are hard. Sprinting is hard. Some of it you can have fun with. Do some kind of competition where they do something hard. They really get into that. We do a med ball relay. About 5 guys on a team. Throw the ball. Sprint to it and stop it. Sprint back. Next guy repeats till the ball crosses the goal line and back. You know how many sprints the kids run in that game? And they run them hard as crap.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Oct 31, 2023 22:46:55 GMT -6
One of ours is we run 400 meters for time during the summer. Starts off as two 400s under the time. We work up to 4-5 of them depending on the time frame for summers and the team we have.
We are up front with our guys that it's one of the few things we do that is just hard for the sake of being hard and proving that we can do it.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Nov 1, 2023 7:01:23 GMT -6
Get them to go out for the wrestling team!
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Post by silkyice on Nov 1, 2023 9:20:00 GMT -6
One of ours is we run 400 meters for time during the summer. Starts off as two 400s under the time. We work up to 4-5 of them depending on the time frame for summers and the team we have. Don't think this is the best way to train football players at all, especially lineman. I do like that you up front and honest here and if it works for you, it works. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Nov 1, 2023 9:53:36 GMT -6
One of ours is we run 400 meters for time during the summer. Starts off as two 400s under the time. We work up to 4-5 of them depending on the time frame for summers and the team we have. Don't think this is the best way to train football players at all, especially lineman. I do like that you up front and honest here and if it works for you, it works. I understand your point. It's also only done one day a week for 5-6 weeks out of the year. |
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Post by cwaltsmith on Nov 1, 2023 9:56:13 GMT -6
I like to set them up in a drill or contest where 98% of time they are going to fail... and see how they react to it. Tough kids will continue to try to succeed at said drill long after non tough kids give up ... thats a way to measure it .. and teaching them how to increase their odds of success makes them tougher... I also like to do things where there is a winner loser and consequences. Too many of our players have never had to deal with adversity because they have been shielded from it. Friend of mine said that parenting books should be titled "You gotta let them fall" ... meaning its ok for kids to fail at things so they can learn to deal with it and adjust or learn
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Post by sweep26 on Nov 1, 2023 10:13:56 GMT -6
One of ours is we run 400 meters for time during the summer. Starts off as two 400s under the time. We work up to 4-5 of them depending on the time frame for summers and the team we have. Don't think this is the best way to train football players at all, especially lineman. I do like that you up front and honest here and if it works for you, it works. Personally, I think 44dlcoach has a great approach...he is preparing his kids for life by coaching more than just football toughness. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Nov 1, 2023 10:32:48 GMT -6
Well, for whatever it's worth, I'm not the HC so these aren't my decisions. I'm just sharing what our program does, and my understanding is that we only do it for the "toughness" component.
All the rest of our summer "conditioning" consists of things like sprint work, some agility work, "bag drills" etc.
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Post by blb on Nov 1, 2023 11:01:49 GMT -6
Don't think this is the best way to train football players at all, especially lineman. I do like that you up front and honest here and if it works for you, it works. I understand your point. It's also only done one day a week for 5-6 weeks out of the year. in terms of physical training, perhaps. In terms of "mental" training, which I think is 44dlcoach's point - I tend to agree with him. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Nov 1, 2023 11:06:00 GMT -6
Some of it you can have fun with. Do some kind of competition where they do something hard. They really get into that. Fat boy fades You'd be surprised how hard you can get a big ol' line man to sprint 60 yards if catching a football is at the end of it. |
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