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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 18, 2023 7:36:54 GMT -6
Have you ever had calls so bad or so decisive in a game that you sent clips to the state?
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Post by wolverine55 on Oct 18, 2023 7:57:49 GMT -6
We have. They only answer you'll get--at least in Iowa--is "Well, you can't really tell on the film..." even when it's pretty obvious on the film.
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Post by freezeoption on Oct 18, 2023 8:48:40 GMT -6
Few states want to rip into refs. It's hard to get em in the first place. Just don't hire them again
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Oct 18, 2023 9:16:04 GMT -6
Have you ever had calls so bad or so decisive in a game that you sent clips to the state? Yes. It's the equivalent to howling at the moon. |
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Post by blb on Oct 18, 2023 10:08:27 GMT -6
I never did.
In our state most leagues have "Officials Coordinators" and local Officials Associations.
If one was going to send complaints-films it would probably be to them
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Oct 18, 2023 10:16:36 GMT -6
I will say that I've had much better luck sending film to the crew chief himself and asking for an explanation and/or clarification.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 18, 2023 10:22:08 GMT -6
I will say that I've had much better luck sending film to the crew chief himself and asking for an explanation and/or clarification.
I already lost my mind and got my unsportsmanlike. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Oct 18, 2023 11:28:48 GMT -6
Where you get with this can to some extent depend on how much clout you and/your school has. Peeople will try to act like that's not the case and deny it, but we all know it's the truth. Lol
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Post by realdawg on Oct 18, 2023 16:32:35 GMT -6
We had a call a couple weeks ago that was totally blown and obviously wrong. It directly cost us 7 points. We lost by 7 points. Sent it in. Crickets. No accountability for refs whatsoever. I know there is a shortage of them. I understand we need more. But there needs to be some accountability. Dock their game check 10 percent or something. Don’t let your part time hobby affect my full time job.
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Post by tripsclosed on Oct 18, 2023 16:49:07 GMT -6
We had a call a couple weeks ago that was totally blown and obviously wrong. It directly cost us 7 points. We lost by 7 points. Sent it in. Crickets. No accountability for refs whatsoever. I know there is a shortage of them. I understand we need more. But there needs to be some accountability. Dock their game check 10 percent or something. Don’t let your part time hobby affect my full time job. There wasn't accountability even when there wasn't a shortage. Lol |
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Post by bigugly55 on Oct 18, 2023 20:59:17 GMT -6
We lined up to kick a game winning extra point in a double overtime game earlier this year. We drill it twice and both times the officials say they were lined up offsides and we re-kick. On the third try their guy gets a running start and is clearly offsides and blocks it. No Flag. We end up losing in the third OT by a point.
Send the film to the state association. They get back to us and say yeah we got screwed there but nothing that they can do.
Oh another point, the rule where you can't decline an offsides on a made extra point is such a ridiculous rule.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 19, 2023 5:46:58 GMT -6
We lined up to kick a game winning extra point in a double overtime game earlier this year. We drill it twice and both times the officials say they were lined up offsides and we re-kick. On the third try their guy gets a running start and is clearly offsides and blocks it. No Flag. We end up losing in the third OT by a point. Send the film to the state association. They get back to us and say yeah we got screwed there but nothing that they can do. Oh another point, the rule where you can't decline an offsides on a made extra point is such a ridiculous rule Another just stupid illogical rule. I just do not understand how they cannot fix the obviously bad rules, especially when they have been fixed by the NCAA and/or NFl. Not trying to be a butt, but why didn’t you go for two after the second offsides? The ball would have been inside the 1? |
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Post by brettdj on Oct 19, 2023 6:07:07 GMT -6
We lined up to kick a game winning extra point in a double overtime game earlier this year. We drill it twice and both times the officials say they were lined up offsides and we re-kick. On the third try their guy gets a running start and is clearly offsides and blocks it. No Flag. We end up losing in the third OT by a point. Send the film to the state association. They get back to us and say yeah we got screwed there but nothing that they can do. Oh another point, the rule where you can't decline an offsides on a made extra point is such a ridiculous rule. It is encroachment and it is a dead ball foul. So no play actually happened. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 19, 2023 7:23:34 GMT -6
Our state association encourages school to send in film. I know a lot of the officials (at least the ones we know) do watch the things sent in, and the training/retraining uses those clips to teach.
They have a Hudl account they use.
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Post by bigugly55 on Oct 19, 2023 8:14:37 GMT -6
We lined up to kick a game winning extra point in a double overtime game earlier this year. We drill it twice and both times the officials say they were lined up offsides and we re-kick. On the third try their guy gets a running start and is clearly offsides and blocks it. No Flag. We end up losing in the third OT by a point. Send the film to the state association. They get back to us and say yeah we got screwed there but nothing that they can do. Oh another point, the rule where you can't decline an offsides on a made extra point is such a ridiculous rule. It is encroachment and it is a dead ball foul. So no play actually happened. You're right with the high school having encroachment and not offsides and it technically not being a play. It was frustrating because both flags were thrown well after the play had started and looking at the film ( I know it's not a perfect exact angle)it was impossible to find who they possibly called offsides. I know it's a supposed player safety deal, but I hate the encroachment rule in NFHS rules. |
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Post by bigugly55 on Oct 19, 2023 8:19:02 GMT -6
We lined up to kick a game winning extra point in a double overtime game earlier this year. We drill it twice and both times the officials say they were lined up offsides and we re-kick. On the third try their guy gets a running start and is clearly offsides and blocks it. No Flag. We end up losing in the third OT by a point. Send the film to the state association. They get back to us and say yeah we got screwed there but nothing that they can do. Oh another point, the rule where you can't decline an offsides on a made extra point is such a ridiculous rule Another just stupid illogical rule. I just do not understand how they cannot fix the obviously bad rules, especially when they have been fixed by the NCAA and/or NFl. Not trying to be a butt, but why didn’t you go for two after the second offsides? The ball would have been inside the 1? Yeah I don't like the encroachment rule. Also the hate the rule about not being able to score defensively on a PAT or two point attempt since the opposing team has an opportunity to score. In hindsight I'd trust my veteran OL to get us that 1 yard, but we just needed 1 pt to win and had a veteran kicker who'd been perfect all year so I can see why the HC made that decision. Unfortunately the block got in his head and he crapped his pants after we scored to open the third OT and kicked it way to low and got it blocked in the middle. |
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Post by silkyice on Oct 19, 2023 9:00:18 GMT -6
Another just stupid illogical rule. I just do not understand how they cannot fix the obviously bad rules, especially when they have been fixed by the NCAA and/or NFl. Not trying to be a butt, but why didn’t you go for two after the second offsides? The ball would have been inside the 1? Yeah I don't like the encroachment rule. Also the hate the rule about not being able to score defensively on a PAT or two point attempt since the opposing team has an opportunity to score. In hindsight I'd trust my veteran OL to get us that 1 yard, but we just needed 1 pt to win and had a veteran kicker who'd been perfect all year so I can see why the HC made that decision. Unfortunately the block got in his head and he crapped his pants after we scored to open the third OT and kicked it way to low and got it blocked in the middle. Didn't realize the extra point would win the game. Definitely the right decision to kick again. |
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Post by silkyice on Oct 19, 2023 9:01:00 GMT -6
We lined up to kick a game winning extra point in a double overtime game earlier this year. We drill it twice and both times the officials say they were lined up offsides and we re-kick. On the third try their guy gets a running start and is clearly offsides and blocks it. No Flag. We end up losing in the third OT by a point. Send the film to the state association. They get back to us and say yeah we got screwed there but nothing that they can do. Oh another point, the rule where you can't decline an offsides on a made extra point is such a ridiculous rule. It is encroachment and it is a dead ball foul. So no play actually happened. Well true. We all understand that. We are saying that the rule needs changing. Not that they enforced the rule incorrectly. |
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Post by fantom on Oct 19, 2023 10:24:34 GMT -6
Our state association encourages school to send in film. I know a lot of the officials (at least the ones we know) do watch the things sent in, and the training/retraining uses those clips to teach. They have a Hudl account they use. Our association was also great about accountability. The problem was that, as conscientious as they were, if they saw a mistake there was nothing that they could do about it. The game's over. Somebody won and somebody lost and there's no mechanism to change that. That problem isn't restricted to HS sports. We hear all the time about a "bad call" changing the result in college football and the NFL (And NBA, NHL, MLB, every other sports league. Pro wrestling is the worst). What can anybody do about it? Just what's being done here- vent. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Oct 19, 2023 10:33:01 GMT -6
Our state association encourages school to send in film. I know a lot of the officials (at least the ones we know) do watch the things sent in, and the training/retraining uses those clips to teach. They have a Hudl account they use. Our association was also great about accountability. The problem was that, as conscientious as they were, if they saw a mistake there was nothing that they could do about it. The game's over. Somebody won and somebody lost and there's no mechanism to change that. That problem isn't restricted to HS sports. We hear all the time about a "bad call" changing the result in college football and the NFL (And NBA, NHL, MLB, every other sports league. Pro wrestling is the worst). What can anybody do about it? Just what's being done here- vent. IMO, if someone files a complaint like this, the goal of filing it is to bring it to their attention so it isn't an issue if you draw the same crew later on in the year and/or don't have a similar issue with another crew, especially if it's in the playoffs. Of course, the downside of that is that even if you present the complaint well and are tactful, the people at state and/or the crew you had the issue with could get their underwear in a knot and view it either as "you dared to question their authority" or you are "Being whiny", and could end up absolutely shafting you when you draw them again 🙄... |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Oct 19, 2023 11:44:39 GMT -6
In California, there are referee associations by region. Most regions have a Hudl account. I know that our region requests our previous night's game every Saturday morning for review. If there is an egregious error, I will be sure to note it when I send the game.....
In playoffs, you will get a neutral association that is not affiliated with either team. There was one playoff game a few years ago where poor officiating was a major contributor to our loss. I searched for this association's Hudl account and they didn't have one. I searched for their website and they just had a cheap, outdated website that only allowed us to send messages; no officers, liaisons, or anything of the sort listed. That confirmed everything I had already knew about them.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Oct 19, 2023 12:40:00 GMT -6
Of course, the downside of that is that even if you present the complaint well and are tactful, the people at state and/or the crew you had the issue with could get their underwear in a knot and view it either as "you dared to question their authority" or you are "Being whiny", and could end up absolutely shafting you when you draw them again 🙄... Exactly what happened to me last time I sent off film and an email re: a complaint. I haven't done that or even thought about doing that since the last time several years ago. (I still send clips with questions to officials- most of those with whom I have good rapport). |
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Post by blb on Oct 19, 2023 13:43:29 GMT -6
Has anyone ever had a call much less result of a game overturned by sending film to state (or anyone else)?
Had an assistant once who was fond of saying "Over time the calls, breaks, and bounces all even out."
I think he was right.
Also - officials are as human as coaches.
As much I would like to believe otherwise - I don't think I ever coached-called a perfect game.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Oct 19, 2023 14:40:40 GMT -6
Has anyone ever had a call much less result of a game overturned by sending film to state (or anyone else)? Had an assistant once who was fond of saying "Over time the calls, breaks, and bounces all even out." I think he was right. Also - officials are as human as coaches. As much I would like to believe otherwise - I don't think I ever coached-called a perfect game. Your assistant is spot on! I've been on the right side of bad calls and the wrong side of bad calls. If you coach long enough, it evens out. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Oct 19, 2023 15:15:26 GMT -6
Has anyone ever had a call much less result of a game overturned by sending film to state (or anyone else)? Had an assistant once who was fond of saying "Over time the calls, breaks, and bounces all even out." I think he was right. Also - officials are as human as coaches. As much I would like to believe otherwise - I don't think I ever coached-called a perfect game. Your assistant is spot on! I've been on the right side of bad calls and the wrong side of bad calls. If you coach long enough, it evens out. It's funny, at least for me, sometimes being on the right side of bad calls bothers me, because the competition purist in me wants to 100% fair and square, and straight up compete, win or lose. Haha. It's outside of our control just the same way as the breaks going against us, so I guess it is what it is. |
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Post by silkyice on Oct 19, 2023 19:47:13 GMT -6
We got hosed one time so badly in HUGE game, that the head of the ref association called me Monday morning wanting to come over. He brought two other officials with him. Watched the tape and said they missed all 6 game changing calls. SIX. For real.
Two onsides we recovered that were given to the other team. 3 other bad calls that resulted in bad situations that all lead to a TD for the other team on the next play (like a bad spot on a 4th down that would have given us a first down). And a phantom hold on a huge play for us.
This costs us the game and a playoff win. So it cost us two wins. We most likely would have won if we were the 3rd seed instead of the 4th seed. 1 and 2 seeds in our region were the top two teams in the state.
Again, THEY REACHED OUT TO ME. It was that bad.
Side note, like I said, the top two teams were in our region. We played the eventual state champs at home. Got every close call, plus a couple of bull crap calls, plus a couple of correct calls that they could have let go that were really big. The whole game I was ticked because I knew we were wasting the one game I had home cooking. We still lost by 40. Ha
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Post by silkyice on Oct 19, 2023 19:47:55 GMT -6
Pro wrestling is the worst Hahahahahahahaha |
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Post by brettdj on Oct 20, 2023 4:23:30 GMT -6
It is encroachment and it is a dead ball foul. So no play actually happened. Well true. We all understand that. We are saying that the rule needs changing. Not that they enforced the rule incorrectly. The rules can be changed. But NFHS likes to keep things even. Their philosophy is probably that encroachment is like a false start by the defense. False start kills the play, so should encroachment. But talk to your state rules interpreter. He is the one that submits rule changes and votes for them. |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Oct 20, 2023 10:17:47 GMT -6
The rules can be changed. But NFHS likes to keep things even. They might promote that as their philosophy... but it's not really true: Ex. 1 Offense taking a safety as time runs out with multiple holding calls- Only the offense can benefit (D choices- take result of play or take the penalty... both result in a safety and game over). Ex. 2 PAT- Only the offense may score. Ex. 3+ I am starting to see a heavy imbalance on what defense is allowed to do on passing plays vs. what offense is allowed to do. We were called multiple times for illegal contact on a receiver (prior to the pass being thrown), yet receivers (and even linemen) blocking downfield on a pass downfield was never called. This could be specific to ND because we have several "unique" rules interpretations as dictated by the state. Even the numbering requirement isn't really "even". Only offense has to change shirts to change positions. Our starting right corner was a D-tackle the first 3 weeks. He wore #22 all season... which was good for us, I guess because six other guys had two jersey numbers all year. (After having coached several years in 8 man where there are no numbering requirements AND after having seen eligible numbers in ineligible positions catch downfield passes with no penalty call this year, I honestly think officials would pay more attention to positioning at the snap if there were no numbering requirements. Too much gets assumed right now. I also know that will never happen... remember the A-11?) |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Oct 20, 2023 11:14:27 GMT -6
We got hosed one time so badly in HUGE game, that the head of the ref association called me Monday morning wanting to come over. He brought two other officials with him. Watched the tape and said they missed all 6 game changing calls. SIX. For real. Two onsides we recovered that were given to the other team. 3 other bad calls that resulted in bad situations that all lead to a TD for the other team on the next play (like a bad spot on a 4th down that would have given us a first down). And a phantom hold on a huge play for us. This costs us the game and a playoff win. So it cost us two wins. We most likely would have won if we were the 3rd seed instead of the 4th seed. 1 and 2 seeds in our region were the top two teams in the state. Again, THEY REACHED OUT TO ME. It was that bad. Side note, like I said, the top two teams were in our region. We played the eventual state champs at home. Got every close call, plus a couple of bull crap calls, plus a couple of correct calls that they could have let go that were really big. The whole game I was ticked because I knew we were wasting the one game I had home cooking. We still lost by 40. Ha Terrible officials. Good people. I'm sure they're better for it now. Doesn't do anything for you since it cost you the game though. |
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