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Post by larrymoe on Oct 13, 2023 18:39:40 GMT -6
Back when I started coaching, a million years ago, HS coaches used to ridicule JFL teams that would just pitch the ball wide to the biggest, fastest, usually oldest kid on the field.
My question is this- How is this age of spread, put your best athlete at QB and just let him run around any different?
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Post by CS on Oct 13, 2023 20:12:20 GMT -6
Back when I started coaching, a million years ago, HS coaches used to ridicule JFL teams that would just pitch the ball wide to the biggest, fastest, usually oldest kid on the field. My question is this- How is this age of spread, put your best athlete at QB and just let him run around any different? Or just throwing 50/50 balls |
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Post by bignose on Oct 14, 2023 7:29:42 GMT -6
Glorified game of "Tag, you're it" with pads.
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Post by blb on Oct 14, 2023 7:44:18 GMT -6
Got to get the "athletes" out and get them the ball "in space."
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 14, 2023 8:02:42 GMT -6
Got to get the "athletes" out and get them the ball "in space." But, the worst of these teams don't even try to get the ball to them. They just let the QB run traditional RB plays. I think the most galling part of to me is, as long as it's out of shotgun, the stupid fans don't make a peep. Now, line up in single back, under center and run the same play and they throw a fit about your dinosaur offense. |
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Post by newt21 on Oct 14, 2023 8:20:07 GMT -6
Got to get the "athletes" out and get them the ball "in space." But, the worst of these teams don't even try to get the ball to them. They just let the QB run traditional RB plays. I think the most galling part of to me is, as long as it's out of shotgun, the stupid fans don't make a peep. Now, line up in single back, under center and run the same play and they throw a fit about your dinosaur offense. Perception is reality, if it looks modern, it must be modern. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 14, 2023 8:28:09 GMT -6
But, the worst of these teams don't even try to get the ball to them. They just let the QB run traditional RB plays. I think the most galling part of to me is, as long as it's out of shotgun, the stupid fans don't make a peep. Now, line up in single back, under center and run the same play and they throw a fit about your dinosaur offense. Perception is reality, if it looks modern, it must be modern. I honestly don't know which actually irritates me more- The dumb fans acceptance of it, OR the cocky ass coaches that will be on the clinic circuit talking about their offense like it's space age and if you don't appreciate it it's because you're just too dumb to understand its greatness. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 14, 2023 8:30:04 GMT -6
Ps- this entire thread was caused by a local HS game I was watching on TV last night. My son plays this afternoon. His team doesn't run this kind of spread because all of their QBs would rather throw 7 pick 6s a game than ever get hit.
Edit- I should also say this commentary is not about that school either. Just a thought that has been rattling around in my cavernous mind for a couple years.
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Post by freezeoption on Oct 14, 2023 21:18:52 GMT -6
I really get tired of throwing the ball. Teach the offensive line to have kahones and run block and run the ball.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 14, 2023 22:01:21 GMT -6
I really get tired of throwing the ball. Teach the offensive line to have kahones and run block and run the ball. I don't get the bad teams that want to go 4 and 5 wide and throw it 40 times a game and get beat by 60. And again, no fan bats an eye. I. Just. Don't. Get. It. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 14, 2023 22:03:06 GMT -6
Back when I started coaching, a million years ago, HS coaches used to ridicule JFL teams that would just pitch the ball wide to the biggest, fastest, usually oldest kid on the field. My question is this- How is this age of spread, put your best athlete at QB and just let him run around any different? Or just throwing 50/50 balls Offense I watched today was 80% QB inside zone, 15% throw up jump balls. The RB didn't touch the ball until the 2nd half. |
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Post by blb on Oct 15, 2023 10:50:25 GMT -6
Got to get the "athletes" out and get them the ball "in space." But, the worst of these teams don't even try to get the ball to them. They just let the QB run traditional RB plays. I think the most galling part of to me is, as long as it's out of shotgun, the stupid fans don't make a peep. Now, line up in single back, under center and run the same play and they throw a fit about your dinosaur offense. Get used to it because it ain't going to change. |
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Post by agap on Oct 15, 2023 11:40:14 GMT -6
The Head Caoches got fired at the last two schools I coached at because they didn't win enough and both places thought they would win if they ran "spread" offenses. They're 2-12 combined this year but I heard nobody is complaining because of the offenses they're running.
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HS Offense
Oct 15, 2023 13:59:04 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by larrymoe on Oct 15, 2023 13:59:04 GMT -6
But, the worst of these teams don't even try to get the ball to them. They just let the QB run traditional RB plays. I think the most galling part of to me is, as long as it's out of shotgun, the stupid fans don't make a peep. Now, line up in single back, under center and run the same play and they throw a fit about your dinosaur offense. Get used to it because it ain't going to change. 2 more years and I probably won't watch another HS football game the rest of my life honestly. |
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Post by CS on Oct 15, 2023 14:26:07 GMT -6
Get used to it because it ain't going to change. 2 more years and I probably won't watch another HS football game the rest of my life honestly. I feel like it’s starting to run its course for the most part around here. For a while there is was you have to be spread or else type of attitude. Now some of the doormats that have been spread have hired guys who run the flex/DTDW/Wing t etc and have started seeing some success |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 15, 2023 15:52:28 GMT -6
2 more years and I probably won't watch another HS football game the rest of my life honestly. I feel like it’s starting to run its course for the most part around here. For a while there is was you have to be spread or else type of attitude. Now some of the doormats that have been spread have hired guys who run the flex/DTDW/Wing t etc and have started seeing some success I've seen 16 HS games this season. Not a single team has primarily anything other than shotgun spread. Some have dabbled in other stuff, but no one has been more than 40% anything other than gun spread. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 15, 2023 16:31:33 GMT -6
I feel like it’s starting to run its course for the most part around here. For a while there is was you have to be spread or else type of attitude. Now some of the doormats that have been spread have hired guys who run the flex/DTDW/Wing t etc and have started seeing some success I've seen 16 HS games this season. Not a single team has primarily anything other than shotgun spread. Some have dabbled in other stuff, but no one has been more than 40% anything other than gun spread. But coach- gun spread is not an offense. It is a formation. I can say with confidence that many if not most state championship teams in most states are probably aligning in gun spread. A QB just running around is a bad offense. A TB just running toss wide to a boxing end is bad offense. Aligning with 2 wide and 2 wings (flexbone) without a plan to attack an overloaded box is bad offense. |
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Post by sweep26 on Oct 15, 2023 17:15:34 GMT -6
I've seen 16 HS games this season. Not a single team has primarily anything other than shotgun spread. Some have dabbled in other stuff, but no one has been more than 40% anything other than gun spread. But coach- gun spread is not an offense. It is a formation. I can say with confidence that many if not most state championship teams in most states are probably aligning in gun spread. A QB just running around is a bad offense. A TB just running toss wide to a boxing end is bad offense. Aligning with 2 wide and 2 wings (flexbone) without a plan to attack an overloaded box is bad offense. Hmmm... |
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Post by wolverine55 on Oct 16, 2023 8:20:30 GMT -6
We run the typical spread majoring in Power/Counter but this year has been refreshing in some ways based on what we've seen from opponents:
Week 1: Flexbone
Week 2: Shotgun spread, but majored in TE Trips formation. Gave us a ton of problems as they didn't show this formation once Week 1.
Week 3: Double TE Power I
Week 4: Double TE I with some variety in formation
Week 5: Shotgun Spread and they were bad. My first-ever shutout as defensive coordinator.
Week 6: Shotgun Spread and they were good. Held them to 17 points, but lost a nailbiter.
Week 7: Shotgun Two-back. Basically ran what the Week 4 team did, just out of the gun.
Week 8: Shotgun Wing T.
Week 9: A very good team who will give us a bit of everything Friday night, but the base is Shotgun Wing running counter.
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Post by olcoach53 on Oct 16, 2023 9:12:38 GMT -6
We have seen the entire gambit.
Shotgun Power run
Shotgun Spread
Shotgun Spread
Under center Flexbone
Shotgun Spread
Wing T
Shotgun Spread
Shotgun Wing T
Wing T
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Post by 44dlcoach on Oct 16, 2023 9:24:19 GMT -6
Week 1: SBV, got our butt kicked.
Week 2: Mostly under center I
Week 3: Affront to the game
Week 4: 11/12 personnel gun
Week 5: Gun with multiple personnel packages, 10/11/12 personnel.
Week 6: Spring Install version of spread
Week 7: Primarily 10 personnel spread with some 20 and 11 personnel packages.
Week 8: Gun 10 personnel with a 6 OL Wildcat package.
Week 9: Mystery. They've been Wing T every game but last week used a generic gun 11 personnel scheme. We shall see.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Oct 16, 2023 10:39:58 GMT -6
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Post by irishdog on Oct 16, 2023 12:13:00 GMT -6
Again, I coached a number of different offensive systems at the HS level. All had their advantages and disadvantages. The only one I thoroughly enjoyed coaching was the Double Wing. I ran it from DTDW. I ran it from a Wing T look. I ran it from Tim Murphy's SGDW. And I ran it out of Coach Wyatt's Open Wing concept. Sometimes I employed the I-Wing. On occasion I even came out in a two WR look both UC and Gun. But in every case we used Double Wing blocking principles up front. Best part was defenses had to guess what look we would come out of the huddle with, so we were always a step ahead of them. Even better was the opponents had a tough time trying to prepare for us in practices since they couldn't simulate what we did as well as we did. And unlike what many might think we could throw the ball whenever we wanted, and not when we needed. The result was either a big play, or a long TD. We could chew clock, and we could run a hurry-up. It was a lot of fun!
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Post by nicku on Oct 16, 2023 12:55:42 GMT -6
Is it any different than putting your best athlete at tailback in the I and running iso and power 1000 times?
I understand the disdain and even agree, to a certain extent. But I have never seen a team that "puts their best athlete at QB and let him run around" have any kind of success.
I grew up in the Air Raid and am a spread guy at heart, but I still get a tear in my eye when I see a team in real life run the Wing-T or the Double Wing
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Post by irishdog on Oct 16, 2023 17:22:53 GMT -6
Is it any different than putting your best athlete at tailback in the I and running iso and power 1000 times? I understand the disdain and even agree, to a certain extent. But I have never seen a team that "puts their best athlete at QB and let him run around" have any kind of success. I grew up in the Air Raid and am a spread guy at heart, but I still get a tear in my eye when I see a team in real life run the Wing-T or the Double Wing I grew up with option based offenses. Probably more power/double option than true triple read. We played for and won league, and section championships with that offense. Now that I'm retired I go out of my way to watch local HS teams who run non-conformist offenses. Tired of watching just about everyone else run the same old same old. I can watch that on Saturdays. |
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HS Offense
Oct 16, 2023 19:21:55 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by larrymoe on Oct 16, 2023 19:21:55 GMT -6
Get used to it because it ain't going to change. 2 more years and I probably won't watch another HS football game the rest of my life honestly. After tonight, I may have watched my last HS football game. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 16, 2023 20:32:14 GMT -6
2 more years and I probably won't watch another HS football game the rest of my life honestly. After tonight, I may have watched my last HS football game.  |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 17, 2023 6:06:33 GMT -6
After tonight, I may have watched my last HS football game. The way our program is run, my son has decided to pull the plug. And I don't blame him. |
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Post by coachdmyers on Oct 19, 2023 14:39:52 GMT -6
Week 3: Affront to the game Where do I find the film/playbook/clinics for this offense? Also, if anyone ever asks me to name our offense, it was going to be "Rainbow Sparkle" but now might go with "Affront to the Game" (I find some of the offense-naming silly). |
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Post by irishdog on Oct 19, 2023 19:53:29 GMT -6
But, the worst of these teams don't even try to get the ball to them. They just let the QB run traditional RB plays. I think the most galling part of to me is, as long as it's out of shotgun, the stupid fans don't make a peep. Now, line up in single back, under center and run the same play and they throw a fit about your dinosaur offense. Get used to it because it ain't going to change. blb, it IS changing. Many coaches are going back to developing effective run games FIRST, and striking some balance in their offense by using "cosmetics" to make their offenses appear to be "modern" looking. Some of the best HS, college, and pro teams have figured out how to strike that balance and have had their teams make deep playoff runs, and winning championships because of it. |
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