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Post by senatorblutarsky on Oct 10, 2023 21:12:49 GMT -6
What I didn't like was officials who called stuff that DIDN'T happen (couldn't see on film) as if they were making things up or materially affect the play (like Holding on opposite side of field from where play was run for ex.). Exactly!!! I've been saying this for years. I don't care if they miss a call that could have been made. I get steamed when they make a call based on circumstantial evidence (ex. kid makes a great, legal block, ref turns, sees blocked kid falling forwards because he turned to the ball carrier as he was being knocked down, ref calls clip, I drink three more tequilas later that evening.) |
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Scenario
Oct 11, 2023 4:53:33 GMT -6
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Post by Defcord on Oct 11, 2023 4:53:33 GMT -6
What I didn't like was officials who called stuff that DIDN'T happen (couldn't see on film) as if they were making things up or materially affect the play (like Holding on opposite side of field from where play was run for ex.). Exactly!!! I've been saying this for years. I don't care if they miss a call that could have been made. I get steamed when they make a call based on circumstantial evidence (ex. kid makes a great, legal block, ref turns, sees blocked kid falling forwards because he turned to the ball carrier as he was being knocked down, ref calls clip, I drink three more tequilas later that evening.) You must’ve had some of the crews we’ve been blessed with this year. Keeping local liquors in business around here too! |
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Post by brettdj on Oct 11, 2023 5:48:03 GMT -6
What I didn't like was officials who called stuff that DIDN'T happen (couldn't see on film) as if they were making things up or materially affect the play (like Holding on opposite side of field from where play was run for ex.). Exactly!!! I've been saying this for years. I don't care if they miss a call that could have been made. I get steamed when they make a call based on circumstantial evidence (ex. kid makes a great, legal block, ref turns, sees blocked kid falling forwards because he turned to the ball carrier as he was being knocked down, ref calls clip, I drink three more tequilas later that evening.) When training officials, I tell them over and over. It is okay to miss a call. But it is really bad to call something that isn't there. Out group is getting better because of this, but there are still a few that keep calling things. Even when shown the film each week. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 11, 2023 7:08:59 GMT -6
When I was an assistant coach I was stupid dealing with refs. Easily yelled at them. As the HC I get to talk with them more. But I also get the feeling of people quickly. The ref Friday night gave me the "I think I'm the best ref in the world" vibe. Which scares me because they think they can do no wrong. Then when this happened they had egg on their face and had to show humility. Which they didn't. That's the part I don't like. In the end...nothing transpired, but man, it was scary. I'm not happy still, but I'd be livid if they got the down over and got points. I've not reffed at any level other than rec/intramurals, but one of the things impressed upon me during training was that officials should always 'support the call made'...... |
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Post by tothehouse on Oct 11, 2023 9:14:25 GMT -6
We had a new ref a few games ago call an interception in our favor...our kid didn't have the ball long enough imo to warrant the INT call. I'll take the call for sure!
Nope...overruled by a different official. So...I'm not sure if I like "support the call is made". I understand refs cannot constantly overrule each other or the game may never end. What I would support is "getting the call right". I wasn't upset that they changed this INT to an INC...but my frustration is that other calls weren't/aren't changed when it's clearly the wrong call.
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Post by blb on Oct 11, 2023 10:05:37 GMT -6
When training officials, I tell them over and over. It is okay to miss a call. But it is really bad to call something that isn't there. Out group is getting better because of this, but there are still a few that keep calling things. Even when shown the film each week. I think sometimes young or inexperienced officials feel that they need to call something sometime or they aren't doing their job rather than just administering the game as it happens. And so they interject themselves into it when maybe they shouldn't. Also I saw crews that were used to working lower level (classes or divisions, not Sub-Varsity) games take a step up in competition and weren't used to the speed-skill of the game and struggle with it. Especially in Post-Season. |
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Post by blb on Oct 11, 2023 10:37:32 GMT -6
When I was an assistant coach I was stupid dealing with refs. Easily yelled at them. As the HC I get to talk with them more. But I also get the feeling of people quickly. The ref Friday night gave me the "I think I'm the best ref in the world" vibe. Which scares me because they think they can do no wrong. The only 15-yarder I got (details don't matter, suffice it to say our QB-Captain said "Coach, You didn't deserve that!") came in my next-to-last game after 31 years and almost 300 games as a HC from an official like you described. Bad thing is it took us out of FG range late in a game we lost by one point. They always win, they have the whistle-yellow flag. My advice is don't give them the chance. |
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Post by tothehouse on Oct 11, 2023 13:15:52 GMT -6
A long time ago my wife went to a game with me that wasn't the team I was coaching. She says..."everyone looks so slow compared to your team". We weren't necessarily fast, but played fast and furious.
Why that comment resonates with me is...I feel like you said BLB...that refs that ref two horrible teams...that get matched up with well coached teams...they have trouble. It's faster. It's better. And they either came into the game thinking it'd be easily or get confused when my lineman blocks (and buries a guy) all the way to the whistle. That's not a penalty...that's good football.
That kind of thing always chapped me. We get punished for being good at the sport.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2023 15:03:49 GMT -6
It sounds like you’ve all worked this out.
The key to the play is WHEN did the player gain possession, before or after the IW. Rule 4-2-3 is the applicable rule. If the whistle blew before the player gained possession, the down is replayed. If the IW happened after player possession, then the team in possession can choose to replay the down or keep the ball where it was when the IW happened. In this case, an obvious choice to keep the ball.
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Scenario
Oct 11, 2023 17:37:37 GMT -6
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 11, 2023 17:37:37 GMT -6
A long time ago my wife went to a game with me that wasn't the team I was coaching. She says..."everyone looks so slow compared to your team". We weren't necessarily fast, but played fast and furious. Why that comment resonates with me is...I feel like you said BLB...that refs that ref two horrible teams...that get matched up with well coached teams...they have trouble. It's faster. It's better. And they either came into the game thinking it'd be easily or get confused when my lineman blocks (and buries a guy) all the way to the whistle. That's not a penalty...that's good football. That kind of thing always chapped me. We get punished for being good at the sport. I had a guard who was good for 1 complete BS flag on him every other game. One game he gets a 15 yarder for personal foul. I asked why. Varsity ref looks me in the eye and says "Do you see how much bigger he is than that kid? He doesn't need to hit him that hard!". I couldn't even argue I was so stupefied. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Oct 12, 2023 8:28:32 GMT -6
When training officials, I tell them over and over. It is okay to miss a call. But it is really bad to call something that isn't there. Out group is getting better because of this, but there are still a few that keep calling things. Even when shown the film each week. I think sometimes young or inexperienced officials feel that they need to call something sometime or they aren't doing their job rather than just administering the game as it happens. Is there pressure to make this particular call (interception) and signal quickly? I don't recall seeing it in a long time at any level, so maybe the mechanic has changed. When change of possession occurs during a live ball, offensive restrictions instantly apply to team B and defensive ones to team A. But I don't recall seeing officials in recent years point the arm at the instant an interception occurs, the way they used to; seems they now save it for dead ball to indicate "new series" only. If there is pressure to signal quickly, then it's very understandable that the call on the spot be a preliminary one that may be overruled. |
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Post by blb on Oct 12, 2023 9:41:26 GMT -6
I didn't mean to make this into a referendum on officiating because it IS a tough job - especially Football and in particular kicking plays - and the shortage is a very real thing at least in my state.
So this will be my last comment.
As I posted earlier I refereed-umpired myself. The instructor I had in my college Officiating class went on to become NFL white hat, so I could say I was fairly well-trained.
The biggest thing that bugged me was when officials didn't hustle, were out of position.
That told me that maybe they weren't into this game, were being lazy. Nothing to hurt us, not being biased, but to me that was bad officiating and unfair to the players.
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Post by brettdj on Oct 16, 2023 6:10:07 GMT -6
I didn't mean to make this into a referendum on officiating because it IS a tough job - especially Football and in particular kicking plays - and the shortage is a very real thing at least in my state. So this will be my last comment. As I posted earlier I refereed-umpired myself. The instructor I had in my college Officiating class went on to become NFL white hat, so I could say I was fairly well-trained. The biggest thing that bugged me was when officials didn't hustle, were out of position. That told me that maybe they weren't into this game, were being lazy. Nothing to hurt us, not being biased, but to me that was bad officiating and unfair to the players. My training was similar. My high school officiating trainer is a current NFL white hat. My first focus for training of new officials is positioning(mechanics). If they are not in the right spot, they can't be sure of the right call. |
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Post by brettdj on Oct 16, 2023 6:11:49 GMT -6
I think sometimes young or inexperienced officials feel that they need to call something sometime or they aren't doing their job rather than just administering the game as it happens. Is there pressure to make this particular call (interception) and signal quickly? I don't recall seeing it in a long time at any level, so maybe the mechanic has changed. When change of possession occurs during a live ball, offensive restrictions instantly apply to team B and defensive ones to team A. But I don't recall seeing officials in recent years point the arm at the instant an interception occurs, the way they used to; seems they now save it for dead ball to indicate "new series" only. If there is pressure to signal quickly, then it's very understandable that the call on the spot be a preliminary one that may be overruled. The current mechanic is to signal at the end of the down(dead ball). |
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