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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 5, 2023 8:58:56 GMT -6
Has anyone had a consultant come in in and evaluate their program?
We had a sports psychologist observe several of our programs early this fall. It wasn’t life changing but it did provide some insight that we had not considered.
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Post by agap on Oct 5, 2023 10:25:09 GMT -6
We haven't but I know other programs that have and they got some great insight from what I heard. At a previous school I was at, the head coach didn't want to pay for someone to come in but I was going to pay him myself to evaluate what we did defensively in practice.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Oct 6, 2023 10:22:12 GMT -6
I have been giving serious consideration into doing this myself; consulting on scheme, program building and management, community buy-in/engagement, etc. If anyone here does this I'd love to connect and learn more about it!
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 6, 2023 10:49:20 GMT -6
Here is the problem with the "consultant" aspect in HS football. Compensation. If actual asst coaches are making low 4 figure stipends to work long hours (and maybe even year round), what does a consultant merit?
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Post by blackknight on Oct 6, 2023 12:13:57 GMT -6
I have been considering this as well. I need the tax write offs!
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Post by bluedevil4 on Oct 6, 2023 12:31:50 GMT -6
Here is the problem with the "consultant" aspect in HS football. Compensation. If actual asst coaches are making low 4 figure stipends to work long hours (and maybe even year round), what does a consultant merit? My own thoughts on that is doing this as just a small side hustle, or if I wanted to invest more time into this to make real money, creating books/products, writings, etc, but then I criticize myself and say I'm just turning into another "clinic coach," or content creator which I often hold my own harsh criticisms about lol. I really just like writing and talking about building programs and systems. Compound how bad inflation has gotten, I'm more and more tempted to try a side hustle like this. Working a salaried job with a master's degree and still having half of your monthly income going to just housing and utilities is getting exhausting.
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Post by blb on Oct 6, 2023 12:58:57 GMT -6
Has anyone had a consultant come in in and evaluate their program? We had a sports psychologist observe several of our programs early this fall. It wasn’t life changing but it did provide some insight that we had not considered. Whose idea was that, and Who paid for it?
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 6, 2023 15:31:45 GMT -6
Here is the problem with the "consultant" aspect in HS football. Compensation. If actual asst coaches are making low 4 figure stipends to work long hours (and maybe even year round), what does a consultant merit? My own thoughts on that is doing this as just a small side hustle, or if I wanted to invest more time into this to make real money, creating books/products, writings, etc, but then I criticize myself and say I'm just turning into another "clinic coach," or content creator which I often hold my own harsh criticisms about lol. I really just like writing and talking about building programs and systems. Compound how bad inflation has gotten, I'm more and more tempted to try a side hustle like this. Working a salaried job with a master's degree and still having half of your monthly income going to just housing and utilities is getting exhausting. Yes, but there is a flip side. Not to be rude (because this would apply to almost every other poster on this board) but what value would you bring? Who are "you". Can you imagine being an asst coach at a program and having the program invest money in someone else outside instead of upping your stipend a bit? The issue with consultants and HS ball is that consultants don't have any skin in the game, and unlike other levels of football, the vast majority of HS ball is simply skin in the game --working many months for little pay. From a personal finance point of view (since you brought it up) this would likely be a horrible investment of your time and resources. There have been a few other threads on this board discussing the topic, and I believe they all sort of steer into that same direction. Because the compensation for those with all the skin in the game is so low, it isn't really feasible to find a price point at which it is worth the consultants time... unless that time is so short that the consultant doesnt add any value to the program hiring the services.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 6, 2023 16:06:06 GMT -6
Has anyone had a consultant come in in and evaluate their program? We had a sports psychologist observe several of our programs early this fall. It wasn’t life changing but it did provide some insight that we had not considered. Who would you hire? Why would you choose them? What value do you think they would add?
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 8, 2023 9:38:31 GMT -6
Has anyone had a consultant come in in and evaluate their program? We had a sports psychologist observe several of our programs early this fall. It wasn’t life changing but it did provide some insight that we had not considered. Whose idea was that, and Who paid for it? We initially had a grant, I don't know the specifics. It was received very favorably by coaches and admin. in order to help meet the district requirements for Social Emotional Learning. The district piloted a program through the summer and it culminated with a a 2 day session in which we observed at a volleyball game and a football practice. It wasn't cheap, yeah federal government grants. The psychologist is also trained in Strength and Conditioning. His primary sport has been VB but he has worked with pretty much every sport. DI to HS and teams and individuals.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Oct 8, 2023 9:40:16 GMT -6
Has anyone had a consultant come in in and evaluate their program? We had a sports psychologist observe several of our programs early this fall. It wasn’t life changing but it did provide some insight that we had not considered. Who would you hire? Why would you choose them? What value do you think they would add? I have thought about hiring some of my former college coaches who have since retired. I am really looking for efficiency of practice and the quality of the interactions with coaches and players.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 8, 2023 10:26:11 GMT -6
Who would you hire? Why would you choose them? What value do you think they would add? I have thought about hiring some of my former college coaches who have since retired. I am really looking for efficiency of practice and the quality of the interactions with coaches and players. So again, from a business perspective, how many practices will they have to attend to evaluate the program, its individual situations (players, staff, facilities, equipment etc)? One practice? One week? How much does that cost per hour/day? How much is that expense relative to what you are paying your assts (and yourself) for working ___ hours a day 6/7 days a week from late July- November? I believe that is where the “consultant “ idea in HS ball fails. Any compensation worth the “consultant’s” time is going to be monumentally disproportionate to what most HS coaches make for the season/year.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Oct 8, 2023 13:15:50 GMT -6
Here is the problem with the "consultant" aspect in HS football. Compensation. If actual asst coaches are making low 4 figure stipends to work long hours (and maybe even year round), what does a consultant merit? This!!!
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Post by blb on Oct 8, 2023 14:12:49 GMT -6
Isn't the Athletic Director paid to evaluate the program?
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 8, 2023 18:04:00 GMT -6
Whose idea was that, and Who paid for it? We initially had a grant, I don't know the specifics. It was received very favorably by coaches and admin. in order to help meet the district requirements for Social Emotional Learning. The district piloted a program through the summer and it culminated with a a 2 day session in which we observed at a volleyball game and a football practice. It wasn't cheap, yeah federal government grants. The psychologist is also trained in Strength and Conditioning. His primary sport has been VB but he has worked with pretty much every sport. DI to HS and teams and individuals. Maybe it is the multiple decades in public education- but to be honest this sounds like a standard educational boondoggle - but geared towards athletes as opposed to academics/social skills. That doesn’t mean it provided zero value… I am sure all of us in education can pick up something from our 6 hour PD sessions while having a power point read to us by someone who has 3 years of actual classroom experience. But that doesn’t necessarily make it worthwhile either.
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Post by brophy on Oct 9, 2023 5:00:15 GMT -6
The Cost / Value will always be exorbitant to bring an 'outsider' in to give you an honest assessment. Even in professional settings, what you end up with is 90% redundancy (telling you what you already do), 8% suggestion (what you already know you should do, but aren't) and 2% of new perspective (if only you had ___ to adopt it). To do it right, they would need to spend significant time with you in the off-season, during practice, and on game night. The best you could realistically do is a 'friend of the program', some ex ball coach that has anxious time on his hands. Even then, unless its some open-minded forward thinking, dude,you're likely going to get "you should do things like I did back in the day...."
How could you achieve the same while having more control of the costs? Do the opposite. Instead of an outsider coming into your program, YOU go visit another program (on your dime). Can the header and/or assistant(s) devote time out of THEIR personal lives to embed with a college program in the region? Visit them during the off-season, during spring ball, etc and just hang out on campus. Don't just visit for an hour, go to their coaches meetings, go to their players meetings, spend time in their film room, go to the practices, talk to the players and support staff....Now, measure your notes and overall experience with what you guys do. What did your time inspire you to do/ creative thoughts? This is powerful if just one coach on staff does it. If more than one does it, it multiplies even greater. It shines a light on what you could do, through the lens of what you already do, but more importantly it can SHOW you how those things look like when put in practice
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 9, 2023 6:08:04 GMT -6
If you want an easy and affordable way to evaluate your program, specifically how your practices go do this.
Set a wide angle camera that can get the entire field and let it run.
You'll be amazed how much BS, walking around, non-involvement, chit-chatting, and lack of focus you have going on during your practices.
Then you can look at the film and and evaluate what your players are doing.
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Post by agap on Oct 9, 2023 7:06:01 GMT -6
I think consultants are valuable because too many high school coaches (at least around here) don't visit other programs and they go to one clinic in the off-season and spend most of the time drinking in the bar. Should high school programs be able to correct things on their own without paying someone else? Absolutely, but that's unfortunately not the case.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 9, 2023 7:31:19 GMT -6
I hope that the coaching consultants are more valuable than the teaching "experts" that districts often bring in for institute days.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Oct 9, 2023 7:47:24 GMT -6
Spend more time on Defensive Fundamentals and Run the ball more. Consult concluded. Venmo me $250.00
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Post by veerwego on Oct 9, 2023 8:13:31 GMT -6
I have done a few camps in the summer, working for someone else, where I went in for 3 days and installed an offense for them. Meet with the coaches a little and then lead them through 3 practices. Install the basics and teach them drills and how to practice it. I think I got paid $1000 each time.
Then one of them moved to a new school and had me come down and take a Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning to meet with his coaching staff and teach the offense to them. I think I charged them $600 plus expenses. This was over a decade ago.
Other than that type of thing, I agree it is hard to pay football $ out of an already light budget, to have someone come in and do what many would argue the head coach, AD, and even the assistants should be doing, which is making the program better. I see the appeal of it, but hard to justify. Like many have stated, you are already not paying your coaches very much. I would think it would be more useful to take them to a good clinic and pay for it for them. Everyone gets to have a nice trip and learn some football. Maybe specify some things you want them to go watch.
Having a friend or retired colleague who wants to do this to kill some time and maybe pay them a little out of your own pocket, give them some clothes, feed them, etc. may be a more realistic option for most. Now if it is grant $, that is a different story.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 9, 2023 11:16:31 GMT -6
I hope that the coaching consultants are more valuable than the teaching "experts" that districts often bring in for institute days. A few more years out of teaching or having any idea of what actually goes on in a classroom and I should be able to make some real coin doing this.
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Post by irishdog on Oct 9, 2023 12:11:48 GMT -6
Wouldn't an AD fill that role at the HS level? If football is the engine that drives the entire athletic program oversight of the football program should be one of his/her major responsibilities in assisting the HC with the development of his entire football program from youth through high school. Unfortunately this is not the case at many schools. From my own experiences many schools hire an AD to just "manage" an athletic program, rather than actually DEVELOP one.
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 9, 2023 12:53:06 GMT -6
Wouldn't an AD fill that role at the HS level? If football is the engine that drives the entire athletic program oversight of the football program should be one of his/her major responsibilities in assisting the HC with the development of his entire football program from youth through high school. Unfortunately this is not the case at many schools. From my own experiences many schools hire an AD to just "manage" an athletic program, rather than actually DEVELOP one. Most ADS anymore seem to spend most their time trying to find refs and doing evaluations of teachers. At least around here. I've seen more ADs that never coached than I have not in the past 10 years.
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 9, 2023 13:21:07 GMT -6
I'm a really cheap date... I'd love to come visit anyone who wanted it for a few suds and a burger... travel would be negotiated.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 9, 2023 14:11:00 GMT -6
I hope that the coaching consultants are more valuable than the teaching "experts" that districts often bring in for institute days. A few more years out of teaching or having any idea of what actually goes on in a classroom and I should be able to make some real coin doing this. Yep. You just need a Google slideshow and an acronym. Poof...you are an educelebrity!
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 9, 2023 20:58:32 GMT -6
I have done a few camps in the summer, working for someone else, where I went in for 3 days and installed an offense for them. Meet with the coaches a little and then lead them through 3 practices. Install the basics and teach them drills and how to practice it. I think I got paid $1000 each time. Then one of them moved to a new school and had me come down and take a Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning to meet with his coaching staff and teach the offense to them. I think I charged them $600 plus expenses. This was over a decade ago. Other than that type of thing, I agree it is hard to pay football $ out of an already light budget, to have someone come in and do what many would argue the head coach, AD, and even the assistants should be doing, which is making the program better. I see the appeal of it, but hard to justify. Like many have stated, you are already not paying your coaches very much. I would think it would be more useful to take them to a good clinic and pay for it for them. Everyone gets to have a nice trip and learn some football. Maybe specify some things you want them to go watch. Having a friend or retired colleague who wants to do this to kill some time and maybe pay them a little out of your own pocket, give them some clothes, feed them, etc. may be a more realistic option for most. Now if it is grant $, that is a different story. I think consulting on something very specific in which one is an expert is different than what the OP was talking about.
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Post by veerwego on Oct 10, 2023 8:09:03 GMT -6
I have done a few camps in the summer, working for someone else, where I went in for 3 days and installed an offense for them. Meet with the coaches a little and then lead them through 3 practices. Install the basics and teach them drills and how to practice it. I think I got paid $1000 each time. Then one of them moved to a new school and had me come down and take a Saturday afternoon and Sunday morning to meet with his coaching staff and teach the offense to them. I think I charged them $600 plus expenses. This was over a decade ago. Other than that type of thing, I agree it is hard to pay football $ out of an already light budget, to have someone come in and do what many would argue the head coach, AD, and even the assistants should be doing, which is making the program better. I see the appeal of it, but hard to justify. Like many have stated, you are already not paying your coaches very much. I would think it would be more useful to take them to a good clinic and pay for it for them. Everyone gets to have a nice trip and learn some football. Maybe specify some things you want them to go watch. Having a friend or retired colleague who wants to do this to kill some time and maybe pay them a little out of your own pocket, give them some clothes, feed them, etc. may be a more realistic option for most. Now if it is grant $, that is a different story. I think consulting on something very specific in which one is an expert is different than what the OP was talking about. Yes sir. I'm with you. I was making the point that other than those types of things, I think it would be difficult to get support for and justify spending $ on a consultant in most programs. I had a buddy who wanted to bring me in to do the 3 day camp thing but said he knew the admin at his school would wonder why he was paying somebody else to come coach his kids... that is what they hired him to do.
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Post by irishdog on Oct 12, 2023 13:08:28 GMT -6
Wouldn't an AD fill that role at the HS level? If football is the engine that drives the entire athletic program oversight of the football program should be one of his/her major responsibilities in assisting the HC with the development of his entire football program from youth through high school. Unfortunately this is not the case at many schools. From my own experiences many schools hire an AD to just "manage" an athletic program, rather than actually DEVELOP one. Most ADS anymore seem to spend most their time trying to find refs and doing evaluations of teachers. At least around here. I've seen more ADs that never coached than I have not in the past 10 years. True dat. Reinforces what I pointed out. Most AD's are simply managing the operation. Since our society is in the renaming mode why not call them AM's? Also your point of not seeing many who coached ANY sport, let alone a TEAM sport, adds to the folly.
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