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Post by 3rdandlong on Sept 8, 2023 12:37:44 GMT -6
Here in Southern, California it's all out of whack.
You have divisions that are decided at the END of the season based on computer rankings using a system called Calpreps.
The purpose of this is competitive equity but the unintended consequence is that good, overachieving teams get punished by being placed in divisions too high and underachieving teams get placed too low. There are 14 divisions and the word MASSIVE doesn't even begin to describe the gap between 1 and 14
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 8, 2023 21:49:10 GMT -6
Here in Southern, California it's all out of whack. You have divisions that are decided at the END of the season based on computer rankings using a system called Calpreps. The purpose of this is competitive equity but the unintended consequence is that good, overachieving teams get punished by being placed in divisions too high and underachieving teams get placed too low. There are 14 divisions and the word MASSIVE doesn't even begin to describe the gap between 1 Equity is the theft of human potential. -----Thomas Sowell |
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Playoffs?
Sept 12, 2023 1:20:28 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by coachtua on Sept 12, 2023 1:20:28 GMT -6
Here in Southern, California it's all out of whack. You have divisions that are decided at the END of the season based on computer rankings using a system called Calpreps. The purpose of this is competitive equity but the unintended consequence is that good, overachieving teams get punished by being placed in divisions too high and underachieving teams get placed too low. There are 14 divisions and the word MASSIVE doesn't even begin to describe the gap between 1 You coach in the Southern Section don't you? |
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Playoffs?
Sept 13, 2023 17:04:20 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by larrymoe on Sept 13, 2023 17:04:20 GMT -6
Here in Southern, California it's all out of whack. You have divisions that are decided at the END of the season based on computer rankings using a system called Calpreps. The purpose of this is competitive equity but the unintended consequence is that good, overachieving teams get punished by being placed in divisions too high and underachieving teams get placed too low. There are 14 divisions and the word MASSIVE doesn't even begin to describe the gap between 1 Calpreps is {censored}. Their "predictors" portion was huge here in Illinois on chat boards about upcoming games for a while. Some still reference it as infallible. It still "predicts" that teams I coached would lose games we actually won. We beat one team in week 9 and a guy argued Calpreps was still right since the other team made the semifinals. But, so did we. On the other side of the bracket. |
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Playoffs?
Sept 13, 2023 19:33:19 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by waddles52 on Sept 13, 2023 19:33:19 GMT -6
In Washington, we start practice the this Wednesday in August. First games Labor Day weekend. State title games are the weekend after Thanksgiving.
Basically everyone plays nine weeks in the regular season and week 10 is normally some sort of district crossover game. I would say 70 percent of the teams that aren't playing for something meaningful that week find a game to round out the season.
I've only made to the 14th week once, it was a grind. Come the first week in December, we are all getting the stereotypical Washington weather.
16 teams make the actual playoffs. Most classifications have between 5-9 teams that have a chance to win it all each year. Since we started seeding teams by committee instead of location/district standing there have been very few early round upsets.
I think ideally we would be a 9-game regular season state with eight playoff teams.
I'm in the minority of coaches in our classification that feel that way as there is a push to expand to 32 teams. (We only have 65ish teams per classification) because each district is allotted a number of state berths and the district with the best football in our classification gets the least amount of berths (only 2 of 16 this year, they have probably four of the best eight teams in our classification)
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Post by jg78 on Sept 13, 2023 21:27:34 GMT -6
The league I used to coach in played ten regular season games and three playoff games. The state championship was always the Friday before Thanksgiving. It was great.
We all want to win championships and everything, but I think it would suck to practice Thanksgiving week unless you got a big bonus for it. And stretching into December is just crazy unless you're making the big bucks or simply don't care about anything but football.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Sept 14, 2023 10:38:01 GMT -6
Here in Southern, California it's all out of whack. You have divisions that are decided at the END of the season based on computer rankings using a system called Calpreps. The purpose of this is competitive equity but the unintended consequence is that good, overachieving teams get punished by being placed in divisions too high and underachieving teams get placed too low. There are 14 divisions and the word MASSIVE doesn't even begin to describe the gap between 1 You coach in the Southern Section don't you? Yes sir. Also edited my post at the end to say *gap between 1 and 14.* |
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Post by carookie on Sept 14, 2023 13:30:00 GMT -6
Here in Southern, California it's all out of whack. You have divisions that are decided at the END of the season based on computer rankings using a system called Calpreps. The purpose of this is competitive equity but the unintended consequence is that good, overachieving teams get punished by being placed in divisions too high and underachieving teams get placed too low. There are 14 divisions and the word MASSIVE doesn't even begin to describe the gap between 1 and 14 You are telling me, last year we scored a meaningless TD in the final game of the regular season. Our reward, getting bumped up a division to be the 16th seed and getting steamrolled in round one. Lesson learned, and I think others know this, sand bag it when we get a lead and fool the computers. Get a higher seed in a lower division and make a run for a ring. |
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Playoffs?
Sept 14, 2023 17:56:29 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by coachtua on Sept 14, 2023 17:56:29 GMT -6
You coach in the Southern Section don't you? Yes sir. Also edited my post at the end to say *gap between 1 and 14.* We are a school of 200 and have a historical squad for our school this season. We were in D5 in San Diego, our smallest division. Our conference bumped us in to the big league this year after complaints from our league members. San Diego Section then created another division, D5AA and stuck us in it. This division is primarily comprised of theteams that were in our previous league, the one we were moved out of. Now those teams are pissed because they have to play us in the playoffs |
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Post by carookie on Sept 14, 2023 20:48:22 GMT -6
Here in Southern, California it's all out of whack. You have divisions that are decided at the END of the season based on computer rankings using a system called Calpreps. The purpose of this is competitive equity but the unintended consequence is that good, overachieving teams get punished by being placed in divisions too high and underachieving teams get placed too low. There are 14 divisions and the word MASSIVE doesn't even begin to describe the gap between 1 Calpreps is {censored}. Their "predictors" portion was huge here in Illinois on chat boards about upcoming games for a while. Some still reference it as infallible. It still "predicts" that teams I coached would lose games we actually won. We beat one team in week 9 and a guy argued Calpreps was still right since the other team made the semifinals. But, so did we. On the other side of the bracket. Calpreps is no different than an other metric, it takes margin of victory and opponent to give a measure on which team is consistently better. Obviously no metric will always be right, you can have two teams play each other back to back and split the games; because some times the team that has consistently proven to be better loses on the field. That being written, its foolish to base playoff brackets on such metrics because it completely ignores school size, and that is wrong to do to smaller schools. And it allows for manipulation, if you are sure to be a playoff team you can sandbag it a bit and drop down to an easier bracket. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 14, 2023 21:47:55 GMT -6
SC is going through a similar thing, but with charter schools. There have been a series of charter schools (which is allowed by the StDptoEd) that has created schools that are designed to be dual credit learning, and also limited to school student size. The limit is around 600, which would be out of 5 classification sizes, AA in SC.
AA in SC is mostly your larger rural schools. But in these charter schools, there is no band program, art classes, drama clubs, etc..... It is 600ish athletes in all the sports the school sponsors.
In Columbia, where one of these is located, all the small schools aligned in that region/conference are taking a forfeit for their region/conference game against said school. Those schools are assigned to play that school for play off seeding by region/conference standing.
For me, on one side I'm of the 'go play who you have to play' and quit complaining b/c the league admitted those schools and the didn't HAVE to....
Kind of the same argument I had when about 10 years ago the Coach's association started fussing about a couple of private schools that got really good and started winning (used to always be a whipping boy in football), but never worried about those privates winning 18+ straight volleyball rings...... You let them into the league, then don't beech when they stop being bad.
Then again, back home where I grew up in a rural area, one of the best AA teams has to deal with these programs in the playoffs..... They are a multiple state championship team, has been around forever..... has state championship titles in AAA, AA, & A.... one of the top all time winning teams.
They can compete, but will struggle when they have that 'down year'. This program will have the D1 type dude to compete every so often, or the 'whole bunch of HS type, hard hitting, fast running, drive blocking guys that make good HS teams go.
It's tough algebra to configure for sure
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Post by carookie on Sept 14, 2023 22:01:30 GMT -6
SC is going through a similar thing, but with charter schools. There have been a series of charter schools (which is allowed by the StDptoEd) that has created schools that are designed to be dual credit learning, and also limited to school student size. The limit is around 600, which would be out of 5 classification sizes, AA in SC. AA in SC is mostly your larger rural schools. But in these charter schools, there is no band program, art classes, drama clubs, etc..... It is 600ish athletes in all the sports the school sponsors. In Columbia, where one of these is located, all the small schools aligned in that region/conference are taking a forfeit for their region/conference game against said school. Those schools are assigned to play that school for play off seeding by region/conference standing. For me, on one side I'm of the 'go play who you have to play' and quit complaining b/c the league admitted those schools and the didn't HAVE to.... Kind of the same argument I had when about 10 years ago the Coach's association started fussing about a couple of private schools that got really good and started winning (used to always be a whipping boy in football), but never worried about those privates winning 18+ straight volleyball rings...... You let them into the league, then don't beech when they stop being bad. Then again, back home where I grew up in a rural area, one of the best AA teams has to deal with these programs in the playoffs..... They are a multiple state championship team, has been around forever..... has state championship titles in AAA, AA, & A.... one of the top all time winning teams. They can compete, but will struggle when they have that 'down year'. This program will have the D1 type dude to compete every so often, or the 'whole bunch of HS type, hard hitting, fast running, drive blocking guys that make good HS teams go. It's tough algebra to configure for sure Its funny, in Southern California the problem started at the other end of the spectrum. Very big schools, that werent good at football relative to their size, but were stuck in a league with a dominant program. So these not good very big schools would be forced into playoffs with teams they could never beat, so they got angry and petitioned to change the playoff format. They tried a few formats for equity, during which time I was at a very small private school (less than 80 total kids, 16 on the football team). We made the playoffs and got matched up with a team that had more than 90 kids on their roster. They literally had more kids on their team than we had in our entire school (their school was bout 3K). I get the premise of why they do it, because with open recruiting there are haves (those who poach and recruit) and have nots (those who dont). But I think there should be a different, more sensible way to do it. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Sept 15, 2023 10:39:54 GMT -6
Calpreps is {censored}. Their "predictors" portion was huge here in Illinois on chat boards about upcoming games for a while. Some still reference it as infallible. It still "predicts" that teams I coached would lose games we actually won. We beat one team in week 9 and a guy argued Calpreps was still right since the other team made the semifinals. But, so did we. On the other side of the bracket. Calpreps is no different than an other metric, it takes margin of victory and opponent to give a measure on which team is consistently better. Obviously no metric will always be right, you can have two teams play each other back to back and split the games; because some times the team that has consistently proven to be better loses on the field. That being written, its foolish to base playoff brackets on such metrics because it completely ignores school size, and that is wrong to do to smaller schools. And it allows for manipulation, if you are sure to be a playoff team you can sandbag it a bit and drop down to an easier bracket. The problem I have with it is that it takes overachievers and punishes them while rewarding underachievers. We aren't very good this year and our team isn't as resilient as we've had int he past, but if we manage to be an automatic qualifier in our division, we will have a much better chance of winning than we did 2 years ago when we had a generational team. I coach at a regular, non recruiting, comprehensive high school with kids that work hard. The system was designed to stop a traditionally poor school from recruiting a whole bunch of big time guys and then dominating a lower division. While there's merit to this, it creates bigger problems. |
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Post by 3rdandlong on Oct 17, 2023 10:18:37 GMT -6
Here in Southern, California it's all out of whack. You have divisions that are decided at the END of the season based on computer rankings using a system called Calpreps. The purpose of this is competitive equity but the unintended consequence is that good, overachieving teams get punished by being placed in divisions too high and underachieving teams get placed too low. There are 14 divisions and the word MASSIVE doesn't even begin to describe the gap between 1 Equity is the theft of human potential. -----Thomas Sowell It's not often I agree with Thomas Sowell, but this is a truism if I've ever seen one. |
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