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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:12:18 GMT -6
We tested three times a year. Coinciding with the end of our three 12 week cycles. Generally we tested at the end of the season before we left on Winter break. We tested anyone that was new to our program when we returned. The next test came around Spring Break and usually we bent the schedule to do so right before they left. The third test came the week before we started practice. This was the test you qualified for the award t-shirts and hoodies for certain clubs (800, 900, 1,000, etc.) You also received helmet stickers for certain levels of achievement (all helmet stickers were earned from off season accomplishments). I was the Head Coach for 23 years and kept all the records. We could see the development of our athletes from their freshmen year until their senior year. The other subtle reason we did testing the week before was it got our knuckleheads back into the program. In our Section we had a two then eventually a three week dead period. This was vacation time, etc. We would usually open the weight room but it was true voluntary. "Testing Week" became physical/paperwork week as well as handing out gear so that on Monday we hit the ground running, so to speak. The Strength program was vital to our programs development into a year in and year out contender. The testing held them accountable. It also is competitive and you cannot practice competition enough IMHO. I have been called an idiot and incompetent, but never because of our strength program! Usually those comments came from the stands on Friday nights for running trap on 3rd and 15  I still don’t understand why you call it “voluntary” when it’s clearly not if you’re testing them? |
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:16:50 GMT -6
I gave you two in my first reply this thread. You just refuse to accept them. Didn’t see that. Went back and read it. So you hand out all kinds of things for rewards for showing up but use the testing as motivation for the “knuckleheads.” You said they got a score so what was the score for? Wouldn’t skipping all summer be enough to tell the parents why he wasn’t playing? What happened when someone who didn’t show up all summer got a high score but didn’t play? |
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Post by blackknight on Jul 19, 2023 16:33:31 GMT -6
We tested three times a year. Coinciding with the end of our three 12 week cycles. Generally we tested at the end of the season before we left on Winter break. We tested anyone that was new to our program when we returned. The next test came around Spring Break and usually we bent the schedule to do so right before they left. The third test came the week before we started practice. This was the test you qualified for the award t-shirts and hoodies for certain clubs (800, 900, 1,000, etc.) You also received helmet stickers for certain levels of achievement (all helmet stickers were earned from off season accomplishments). I was the Head Coach for 23 years and kept all the records. We could see the development of our athletes from their freshmen year until their senior year. The other subtle reason we did testing the week before was it got our knuckleheads back into the program. In our Section we had a two then eventually a three week dead period. This was vacation time, etc. We would usually open the weight room but it was true voluntary. "Testing Week" became physical/paperwork week as well as handing out gear so that on Monday we hit the ground running, so to speak. The Strength program was vital to our programs development into a year in and year out contender. The testing held them accountable. It also is competitive and you cannot practice competition enough IMHO. I have been called an idiot and incompetent, but never because of our strength program! Usually those comments came from the stands on Friday nights for running trap on 3rd and 15 I still don’t understand why you call it “voluntary” when it’s clearly not if you’re testing them? The one to two week dead periods before testing week were voluntary. In our Section you can only strength train and condition. Most of us took our vacations then. In our community we felt that we needed to open the weight room for some of the kids. Some needed a place to go for an hour or so, if you met their families you would understand. |
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Post by fantom on Jul 19, 2023 16:37:46 GMT -6
I gave you two in my first reply this thread. You just refuse to accept them. Didn’t see that. Went back and read it. So you hand out all kinds of things for rewards for showing up but use the testing as motivation for the “knuckleheads.” You said they got a score so what was the score for? Wouldn’t skipping all summer be enough to tell the parents why he wasn’t playing? What happened when someone who didn’t show up all summer got a high score but didn’t play? In my state you couldn't make anything in the off-season mandatory. That means that you can't avoid giving a kid playing time strictly because he didn't work out. |
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:38:23 GMT -6
I still don’t understand why you call it “voluntary” when it’s clearly not if you’re testing them? The one to two week dead periods before testing week were voluntary. In our Section you can only strength train and condition. Most of us took our vacations then. In our community we felt that we needed to open the weight room for some of the kids. Some needed a place to go for an hour or so, if you met their families you would understand. I’m saying that you can call it voluntary all you want but if there is a fitness test after the dead period then the expectation is for them to come and condition. It would be voluntary if it was 2 weeks dead period and then come back for regular practice with no test or consequences(which in this case the test is actually a consequence). You did them and that’s fine. That’s the way you did things but don’t pretend it’s something it’s not. |
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Post by blackknight on Jul 19, 2023 16:41:44 GMT -6
You win
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Post by blb on Jul 19, 2023 16:42:41 GMT -6
I gave you two in my first reply this thread. You just refuse to accept them. Didn’t see that. Went back and read it. So you hand out all kinds of things for rewards for showing up but use the testing as motivation for the “knuckleheads.” You said they got a score so what was the score for? Wouldn’t skipping all summer be enough to tell the parents why he wasn’t playing? What happened when someone who didn’t show up all summer got a high score but didn’t play? Didn't say anything about knuckleheads. Apparently you didn't read my post very closely. I said we used the scores in part to develop initial depth chart (as well as accountability for summer attendance). There were parents who didn't know or care when their kids were supposed to be at workouts, or believed the kids when they told them they were in attendance when they weren't. Unlikely someone didn't show up all summer but earned a high score on PFT. But at the end of the day, best players played. |
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:45:18 GMT -6
Didn’t see that. Went back and read it. So you hand out all kinds of things for rewards for showing up but use the testing as motivation for the “knuckleheads.” You said they got a score so what was the score for? Wouldn’t skipping all summer be enough to tell the parents why he wasn’t playing? What happened when someone who didn’t show up all summer got a high score but didn’t play? In my state you couldn't make anything in the off-season mandatory. That means that you can't avoid giving a kid playing time strictly because he didn't work out. So the score meant nothing other than equipment checkout and a shirt? Consequences? Extra conditioning if they didn’t reach a certain score? I’m not saying you tell them you’re holding them out because of not showing up. You could say if Johnny had lifted all summer his body may be stronger which would allow him to compete with the players ahead of him. If you test them and their score is low and they don’t play I can’t understand how that isn’t the exact same thing? |
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Post by fantom on Jul 19, 2023 16:51:05 GMT -6
In my state you couldn't make anything in the off-season mandatory. That means that you can't avoid giving a kid playing time strictly because he didn't work out. So the score meant nothing other than equipment checkout and a shirt? Consequences? Extra conditioning if they didn’t reach a certain score? I’m not saying you tell them you’re holding them out because of not showing up. You could say if Johnny had lifted all summer his body may be stronger which would allow him to compete with the players ahead of him. If you test them and their score is low and they don’t play I can’t understand how that isn’t the exact same thing? It gives you hard evidence that the kid isn't playing because he's not as good physically as the other guys. |
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 16:54:55 GMT -6
I’m done
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 19, 2023 17:01:09 GMT -6
So the score meant nothing other than equipment checkout and a shirt? Consequences? Extra conditioning if they didn’t reach a certain score? I’m not saying you tell them you’re holding them out because of not showing up. You could say if Johnny had lifted all summer his body may be stronger which would allow him to compete with the players ahead of him. If you test them and their score is low and they don’t play I can’t understand how that isn’t the exact same thing? It gives you hard evidence that the kid isn't playing because he's not as good physically as the other guys. I don't think there's a D1 lineman alive that can run a mile in 7:07. I guess they shouldn't be playing because they're not good enough physically. |
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Post by blb on Jul 19, 2023 17:05:53 GMT -6
It gives you hard evidence that the kid isn't playing because he's not as good physically as the other guys. I don't think there's a D1 lineman alive that can run a mile in 7:07. I guess they shouldn't be playing because they're not good enough physically. Whether that's true or not I'm sure the D-I S&C coaches could come up with data-driven standards if they wanted to include a stamina-endurance element in their testing, Mile Run or otherwise. Mine were for HS football players, not D-Is. So your hyperbole is irrelevant. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 19, 2023 17:09:03 GMT -6
So your hyperbole is irrelevant. As is making a lineman run a mile, but I digress. |
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Post by blb on Jul 19, 2023 17:11:57 GMT -6
So your hyperbole is irrelevant. As is making a lineman run a mile, but I digress. You may look at him as only a lineman but to me he was a teenaged-kid and being able to run four laps around a track was a healthy activity, not something unreasonable. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 19, 2023 17:16:11 GMT -6
As is making a lineman run a mile, but I digress. You may look at him as only a lineman but to me he was a teenaged-kid and being able to run four laps around a track was a healthy activity, not something unreasonable. Long distance running is not really that healthy, for a lot of reasons. Plenty of ways to skin that cat. |
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Post by blb on Jul 19, 2023 17:23:01 GMT -6
You may look at him as only a lineman but to me he was a teenaged-kid and being able to run four laps around a track was a healthy activity, not something unreasonable. Long distance running is not really that healthy, for a lot of reasons. Plenty of ways to skin that cat. A mile is not really a long distance, in terms of time investment. Even our fatties typically finished in under 10:00. We're not talking a Marathon or even 5K. By your logic we shouldn't have tested WR-DBs in Bench or Squat. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 19, 2023 17:32:47 GMT -6
Long distance running is not really that healthy, for a lot of reasons. Plenty of ways to skin that cat. A mile is not really a long distance, in terms of time investment. Even our fatties typically finished in under 10:00. We're not talking a Marathon or even 5K. By your logic we shouldn't have tested WR-DBs in Bench or Squat. False. Bench and squat will actually enhance WR-DBs ability to play football. Their mile times won't help them a bit in football either. |
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Post by fantom on Jul 19, 2023 17:38:44 GMT -6
I don't get why people are getting worked up. The OP asked for ideas for pre-season testing. If you don't like an idea don't use it.
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 19, 2023 17:41:43 GMT -6
I don't get why people are getting worked up. The OP asked for ideas for pre-season testing. If you don't like an idea don't use it. Not worked up in the least. I'm just kinda amazed that in 2023 people still care about what a kid runs a mile in. So much research available showing it's a completely meaningless measure. Especially for playing a sport like football where players engage in bursts of activity of 5-15 seconds followed by a minute of rest. It amazes me in the same way some teams line up and do static stretching pre game with organized chanting and clapping. |
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Post by CS on Jul 19, 2023 17:50:08 GMT -6
I don't get why people are getting worked up. The OP asked for ideas for pre-season testing. If you don't like an idea don't use it. I wasn’t worked up either. Just looking for a simple explanation for the reasoning behind doing it. I can understand why if you won’t see a kid all summer. For example, if a kid has to go and live with another parent. Honestly, I feel that it was a carryover from when nobody had summer training and some people never questioned why they were still doing it. It has the same meaning for me as continuing to do 2 a days. It had a reason at one time but it’s an outdated practice |
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Post by coachwoodall on Jul 20, 2023 1:07:48 GMT -6
If you are waiting until just before your first organized practice of the season to test the players you are way too late! You need to test right at the end of the school year to find out what you are dealing with, and to set goals for the kids to accomplish in the preseason. I always thought that a lot of times the testing led to disappointing results for me. You end up worrying about what you don't have. I guess I reached the point where, while I wanted the kids to improve and work at getting faster and stronger, come early August, I'd rather have kids who could learn assignments and play hard, and I didn't have to waste time worrying how they tested out. That kid who runs the 4.5 forty isn't as useful as the kid who runs the 4.9 forty if he is running in the wrong direction. Many moons ago, I was at a program where the HC tested kids at the end of the year/beginning of summer and then right before the season. One was the 40 yard dash. Beginning of summer marked off/painted a start and finish line that was 41 yards long. End of summer marked off/painted a start and finish line that was 39 yards long. |
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Post by groundchuck on Jul 20, 2023 4:30:26 GMT -6
With the end of the summer testing.......if it doesn't harm anyone, and the boys and coaches have fun with it, and get hype with it....I am all for it.
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Post by Defcord on Jul 20, 2023 4:50:14 GMT -6
If you are waiting until just before your first organized practice of the season to test the players you are way too late! You need to test right at the end of the school year to find out what you are dealing with, and to set goals for the kids to accomplish in the preseason. I always thought that a lot of times the testing led to disappointing results for me. You end up worrying about what you don't have. I guess I reached the point where, while I wanted the kids to improve and work at getting faster and stronger, come early August, I'd rather have kids who could learn assignments and play hard, and I didn't have to waste time worrying how they tested out. That kid who runs the 4.5 forty isn't as useful as the kid who runs the 4.9 forty if he is running in the wrong direction. Many moons ago, I was at a program where the HC tested kids at the end of the year/beginning of summer and then right before the season. One was the 40 yard dash. Beginning of summer marked off/painted a start and finish line that was 41 yards long. End of summer marked off/painted a start and finish line that was 39 yards long. When I was a baseball coach at one school we did the opposite in the visitor bullpen. Set it up at like 57 or 58 feet and a high mound. Kids were feeling great warming up and then got in the game and felt like they lost it. It was a pretty big douche move but kind of funny. We ended up resetting the mounds as we built the program because we had a bunch of pitchers and needed them to practice. Leave it to coaches to do silly stuff. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 20, 2023 10:50:53 GMT -6
The back and forth in this thread has been interesting. I would agree with CS in that if the only time you test is following summer workouts, it does seem kind of out of place. A remnant of long ago when kids didn't train at school, or something derived from separate S&C coaches to justify their jobs. If it is a part of the normal yearlong school wide S&C program- makes perfect sense. Regarding the mile, I agree that running there is plenty of evidence in 2023 that running a mile (and more accurately, training to run a mile) is suboptimal for training football players. I don't know if it is that serious a detriment though, and to be honest while I don't necessarily agree with blb , I can see his point "these are HS kids, not football lineman". I it makes sense that those who have the strong feelings about it also didn't seem to be very proficient at it. Our lives and experiences inform our opinions. |
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Post by irishdog on Jul 20, 2023 17:06:04 GMT -6
Tested right before Christmas break. Tested right before Spring break. Last test was right before school was out. These were done to show them their progress in the weight room. We also tested the skills in the 40, and the bigs in the 20. Skill players would run 3 40's and record best time. Bigs would run 5 20's and record best time. Never expected our big kids to run more than a mile on any one football play, but expected them to sprint 20 yards on EVERY play.
We met 4 days per week in the summer (3 lifting days and one 7 on 7) (90 minutes each lift session). Skills lifted 60 minutes and 30 minutes on the field for Passing game install. Linemen would lift 90 minutes. Linemen would play "air ball" on 7 on 7 days. We did that for 7 weeks. Basically asked them to give us 5-6 hours per week. Highly encouraged them to be there but not mandatory (state association rule). But... if they showed up they signed in. In August we pretty much had a good idea who we could count on immediately, who we could count on eventually, and who we knew would fill out the JV roster for awhile. Most of the guys showed up in decent football shape, a number were in good cardio shape (summer basketball, baseball, lacrosse, etc.) but not necessarily in good football shape, and some weren't in any shape.
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