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Post by silkyice on Jun 18, 2023 10:31:46 GMT -6
I believe it is mainly just different due to rules and concussion protocols.
Also, I don't really see all the bad talking everyone is talking about (or misremembering). I think the game just now has incredible athletes in space and that obviously leads to "missed tackles".
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Post by blb on Jun 18, 2023 11:07:27 GMT -6
I believe it is mainly just different due to rules and concussion protocols. Also, I don't really see all the bad talking everyone is talking about (or misremembering). I think the game just now has incredible athletes in space and that obviously leads to "missed tackles". I think there is truth to this. There is more 1-on-1 tackling, less gang tackling, and thus more missed tackles. In the NFL especially you frequently see physical mismatches between WRs or TEs after the catch and DBs trying to stop them (often they try to "block" the BC to the ground rather than form tackle). |
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jun 18, 2023 11:23:37 GMT -6
I think the game just now has incredible athletes in space and that obviously leads to "missed tackles". I agree. The game now kind of necessitates better tackling and while tackling execution is slightly better, it may not be to the level it needs to be for what is seen on offense.
Also, with the change in the game and tackling style, I do see that for us old dinosaurs who run 2 and 3 back offenses, we gain a slight advantage as well because most tackling (i.e. profile tackle) is geared towards tackling in space and not in a crowded B gap.
Looking back at my playing days (as a inside LB), I probably could not play there now with the skill set I had... but we saw a lot of 2-3 back option, iso, toss kind of offenses and I was ok for that.
Another thing, I don't ever remember really being instructed on how to tackle (other than by reps on a bag or man); there weren't many cues other than "be lower" or "wrap up". Maybe I just had poor coaching... but it seems that a few years in to my career (mid 90s) I learned some tackling "systems", that gave us more specific language (shimmy bird dog, profile, etc....). Then we added in some Atavus and Hawk tackling drills and progressions and terms... which has certainly helped in teaching tackling.
Of course, we just came back from football camp last night, so at the moment I think tackling is terrible again... 
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Post by Defcord on Jun 18, 2023 11:39:28 GMT -6
Our tackling has gotten tremendously better in the last 6-8 years. I was a head across, bite the ball tackler because that’s how I learned it.
When we went to rugby tackling and worked tracking a ton, we have really eliminated most of our missed tackles because we rarely give up a cutback any more unless we completely bust on the fit.
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Post by CS on Jun 18, 2023 11:44:24 GMT -6
We practice tackling every day. Not saying we don’t miss tackles but it’s rare
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 18, 2023 18:52:33 GMT -6
I believe it is mainly just different due to rules and concussion protocols. Also, I don't really see all the bad talking everyone is talking about (or misremembering). I think the game just now has incredible athletes in space and that obviously leads to "missed tackles". I agree with the "misremembering" comment. I think there is likely some negativity bias involved. Guys remember missed tackles, or the ever popular shoulder block attempts that fail. Also to be honest, in the NFL it really is a business decision. The worst tacklers probably aren't getting paid to tackle. And the teams would rather them not stick their noses in it either. Similar to, (but not on the same level) as complaining about the lack of fundamentals a QB shows when blocking for a reverse. The guys they are paying to tackle. Well, you can't tackle high. If you are aiming for the middle, but the offensive player lowers their center of gravity, that is a penalty on the defense, so you need to make sure you are not going to hit their helmet. Their helmet is in the middle of their body, so you need to aim a bit wider, making it even more difficult etc. And because of the nature of the game, they are generally in more open space, making it a 1 on 1 open field situation more than we saw in the past. |
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Post by fantom on Jun 18, 2023 19:17:15 GMT -6
I believe it is mainly just different due to rules and concussion protocols. Also, I don't really see all the bad talking everyone is talking about (or misremembering). I think the game just now has incredible athletes in space and that obviously leads to "missed tackles". I agree with the "misremembering" comment. I think there is likely some negativity bias involved. Guys remember missed tackles, or the ever popular shoulder block attempts that fail. Also to be honest, in the NFL it really is a business decision. The worst tacklers probably aren't getting paid to tackle. And the teams would rather them not stick their noses in it either. Similar to, (but not on the same level) as complaining about the lack of fundamentals a QB shows when blocking for a reverse. The guys they are paying to tackle. Well, you can't tackle high. If you are aiming for the middle, but the offensive player lowers their center of gravity, that is a penalty on the defense, so you need to make sure you are not going to hit their helmet. Their helmet is in the middle of their body, so you need to aim a bit wider, making it even more difficult etc. And because of the nature of the game, they are generally in more open space, making it a 1 on 1 open field situation more than we saw in the past. I watched a lot of Jim Brown highlights after he died and there were definitely "business decisions" being made back then. DBs in the NFL are still about the same size now as they were 50 years ago. Offensive skill players are a helluva lot bigger. Hall of Fame TEs like Mackey and Ditka were about 225 lbs. A lot of WRs are that big. A 240 lb. TE is considered undersized. 190 lb. vs 260 is a bad bet. Where are they supposed to go? |
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Post by irishdog on Jun 20, 2023 11:54:37 GMT -6
With the new tackling technique being taught one can't help but arm tackle! It is why we focus more on developing upper body shoulder and arm strength now than before. Still do a ton of lower body (squats, low back stuff, etc.) in the off-season, but in-season lifting is spent on upper body.
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Post by 3rdandlong on Jun 20, 2023 13:08:34 GMT -6
While the rugby style tackling or the "hawk roll" is a more effective and safer tackling technique, it is also worse when the technique is attempted but not executed well. What do I mean? It leads to more miss tackling if not done correctly because guys start diving. It also can lead to greater injuries due to guys dropping their heads.
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Post by tog on Jun 20, 2023 13:40:20 GMT -6
head across is the more sound tech
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Post by fantom on Jun 20, 2023 13:59:29 GMT -6
While the rugby style tackling or the "hawk roll" is a more effective and safer tackling technique, it is also worse when the technique is attempted but not executed well. What do I mean? It leads to more miss tackling if not done correctly because guys start diving. It also can lead to greater injuries due to guys dropping their heads. But couldn't you say that about any technique? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 20, 2023 16:07:34 GMT -6
While the rugby style tackling or the "hawk roll" is a more effective and safer tackling technique, it is also worse when the technique is attempted but not executed well. What do I mean? It leads to more miss tackling if not done correctly because guys start diving. It also can lead to greater injuries due to guys dropping their heads. But couldn't you say that about any technique? I think what he is saying is that those methods are less forgiving than other styles or methods, which isn't something you would say about any technique. I don't know if I agree with that particular assessment, but I do see why someone would make that statement. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Jun 20, 2023 16:18:15 GMT -6
I marked different but worse, but not because of any particular game style/penalty changes or technique differences. My take has nothing to do with football.
Kids today don't (as a whole) know how to collision their bodies, or even fall down. They don't know how to fall off a bike, roller skates, or how to tumble. They aren't taught those things and when they even try to 'rough house' aren't allowed to do so.
We played tackle football everyday on the play ground. Full blown football without pads. We did it in the morning waiting for the 1st bell. During recess. During 'PE'. If we didn't have time to divide up teams, we played Kill the Man with the Ball.
We also played games like King of the Mountain/Dock. I had a pair of boxing gloves and we take an egg timer and box. We used to practice our favorite 'wrasslin' moves on each other.
When were actually were taught a skill or discipline in PE, it included things like tumbling and wrestling. In HS my freshman year we had a full 3 week unit in gymnastics; dive rolls, flips, etc...
I'm not trying to impress anyone with a back in the day story, but when is the last time 3rd graders were allowed to allowed to roughhouse at all on the playground?
Tackling involves a collision. Those are not natural, you have to learn how to brace the body and use certain points of impact.
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Post by irishdog on Jun 20, 2023 17:07:23 GMT -6
I marked different but worse, but not because of any particular game style/penalty changes or technique differences. My take has nothing to do with football. Kids today don't (as a whole) know how to collision their bodies, or even fall down. They don't know how to fall off a bike, roller skates, or how to tumble. They aren't taught those things and when they even try to 'rough house' aren't allowed to do so. We played tackle football everyday on the play ground. Full blown football without pads. We did it in the morning waiting for the 1st bell. During recess. During 'PE'. If we didn't have time to divide up teams, we played Kill the Man with the Ball. We also played games like King of the Mountain/Dock. I had a pair of boxing gloves and we take an egg timer and box. We used to practice our favorite 'wrasslin' moves on each other. When were actually were taught a skill or discipline in PE, it included things like tumbling and wrestling. In HS my freshman year we had a full 3 week unit in gymnastics; dive rolls, flips, etc... I'm not trying to impress anyone with a back in the day story, but when is the last time 3rd graders were allowed to allowed to roughhouse at all on the playground? Tackling involves a collision. Those are not natural, you have to learn how to brace the body and use certain points of impact. That is a great analogy. Those days were a different time, and for many reasons boys were raised differently than most are today. Our society has changed and so have the expectations of parents of many young boys. I can't tell you how often in the last 15 years of my coaching career I had to teach boys how to fall down without injuring themselves! So yes, much of how tackling is taught now is based on safety. Many parents are over-protective of their boys because of what they read, hear, and see on a daily basis through the various media outlets that saturate the airwaves with negative assessments of the game itself. Our leaders (and heroes) even disparage the game so why would a young man choose to play it? In reality the game at the youth and high school levels has NEVER been safer to play than it is today. That is the challenge that coaches face in trying to get parents to allow their boys the opportunity to even experience it for themselves. I'll say it. BACK IN THE DAY boys wanting to play football was the rule...not the exception. |
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Post by fantom on Jun 20, 2023 19:31:42 GMT -6
But couldn't you say that about any technique? I think what he is saying is that those methods are less forgiving than other styles or methods, which isn't something you would say about any technique. I don't know if I agree with that particular assessment, but I do see why someone would make that statement. OK, then I'll disagree with the idea that rugby tackling is less safe. More missed tackles, maybe but making a mistake with your head behind the runner rather than in front has to be safer. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Jun 20, 2023 19:48:44 GMT -6
I don't really agree with the difference in styles leading to "better" or "worse" Tackling.
I think good tackles look good with both styles and bad tackles look bad. The difference I see in bad tackles is bad "old" Tackling results in cut backs and bad "new" Tackling results in crappy looking arm tackles.
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Post by Defcord on Jun 21, 2023 4:26:05 GMT -6
I marked different but worse, but not because of any particular game style/penalty changes or technique differences. My take has nothing to do with football. Kids today don't (as a whole) know how to collision their bodies, or even fall down. They don't know how to fall off a bike, roller skates, or how to tumble. They aren't taught those things and when they even try to 'rough house' aren't allowed to do so. We played tackle football everyday on the play ground. Full blown football without pads. We did it in the morning waiting for the 1st bell. During recess. During 'PE'. If we didn't have time to divide up teams, we played Kill the Man with the Ball. We also played games like King of the Mountain/Dock. I had a pair of boxing gloves and we take an egg timer and box. We used to practice our favorite 'wrasslin' moves on each other. When were actually were taught a skill or discipline in PE, it included things like tumbling and wrestling. In HS my freshman year we had a full 3 week unit in gymnastics; dive rolls, flips, etc... I'm not trying to impress anyone with a back in the day story, but when is the last time 3rd graders were allowed to allowed to roughhouse at all on the playground? Tackling involves a collision. Those are not natural, you have to learn how to brace the body and use certain points of impact. I understand and agree with the points you are making. I will say that the tackling wheels can really help in this regard as well as using dummies in creative ways to work tackling at full speed, physically and to the ground. I’ve been places it’s hard to get good tacking work because the guy simulating the ball carrier won’t/can’t give a solid look to run an effective drill. The tackling wheels really give such a great opportunity to do a lot of stuff to fill in some of the gaps you describe. |
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