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Post by khalfie on Jul 26, 2007 14:43:23 GMT -6
He's innocent...
And I for one believe him...
But lets just say he isn't innocent... what has he really done? I've read the indictment, and all the animal cruelty was done by others...
But lets say Mike did partake in the animal cruelty? Is it so bad?
I know we are a country of dog lovers... hell, I've seen youtube footage of just how much this country loves its dogs... and I mean that literrally...
However, America is a country of animal abusers... Duck hunting... fox hunting... bear hunting... if it was Duck fighting... whould there be all of the hoopla? I'm just sayin?
It seems to me, we are a country of hypocrites... its all right to shoot innocent birds, bears, and deers, with shot guns, and buck pellets... but man's best friend... now that crossing the line?
Ok... so you want to say that's legal and the other isn't... fine... but why is it legal to kill ducks... but not dogs? Do you know how many dogs are put to death everyday, due to neglect and ill treatment?
And I know there's the, well we eat the animals we grow and raise, and then hang upside down, slit their throats and watch drown in their own Blood...
But what if Mike and his boys ate their dogs... would that make it all right?
I'm just sayin'...
I own a few properties... have family living in one... I don't know what they do on the daily, but would I go to jail if they were found to be dog fighting? I think not!
That's all I'm sayin'
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Post by wildcat on Jul 26, 2007 14:46:25 GMT -6
Khal - Proving once again why you TRULY are the Master Baiter! I'm not biting...nice try!
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Post by wingman on Jul 26, 2007 14:49:57 GMT -6
I'll be sympathetic when hunters start hanging and electrocuting deer, ducks etc.
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Post by fbdoc on Jul 26, 2007 15:46:12 GMT -6
Wildcat - was that a not so subtle pun in your post?
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CoachJ
Junior Member
Posts: 307
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Post by CoachJ on Jul 26, 2007 16:00:00 GMT -6
Most hunters who have any merit attempt to kill the animal as quickly and painlessly as possible. Plus they use the animal for a purpose (ie food). Vick and his cohorts took pleasure in torturing animals and used them for amusement. That is what makes it sick.
Oh and I pretty sure since he is a celebrity he will fare a lot better than you or me legally. Of course he will never get his popularity back.
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Post by coachcalande on Jul 26, 2007 16:09:31 GMT -6
Dude, were you on the OJ Jury? lol
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ex-centralcoach
Junior Member
[F4:@marcmarinelli ] [F4:marcmarinelli]
Posts: 384
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Post by ex-centralcoach on Jul 26, 2007 17:23:21 GMT -6
Duck Fighting <-------------------------- hmmmmmm Anyone care to wager, my moneys on the white one....wait they arent fighting at all.....
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Post by Coach Bruce on Jul 26, 2007 20:35:50 GMT -6
Them ducks is spreadin the love.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Jul 26, 2007 20:53:17 GMT -6
... I didn't know what was going on, it was Ron Mexico electrocuting those dogs...
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Post by Coach Bruce on Jul 26, 2007 21:28:14 GMT -6
Agreed....Ronnie mexico set the whole thing up. Framing Vickie for the whole thing. He is tired of only getting credit for , well, see the ducks above.
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Post by khalfie on Jul 26, 2007 22:13:18 GMT -6
See... That's exactly what I'm talking about... Who wouldn't pay to see a couple of Ducks... get down... or is that a gaggle of ducks? Either way... if Ducks want to Bang.... ... who am I to not eat the loser?
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Post by Coach Bruce on Jul 26, 2007 22:17:05 GMT -6
oh, you can go to jail for that!
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Post by larrymoe on Jul 27, 2007 0:16:24 GMT -6
khal, stop stealing your arguments from Cross Bones. Please.
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crl
Junior Member
Pick me , pick me... I want to be on the RNC location scout team.
Posts: 476
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Post by crl on Jul 27, 2007 2:27:05 GMT -6
Let law run its course
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Post by airman on Jul 27, 2007 6:12:06 GMT -6
khalfie, not sure if it is legal in the land of honest abe but in wisconsin you can shoot wild dogs. you see a dog chasing a deer, you can shoot it.
I would say dog fighting today is similar to what the romans did back in the day. sell tickets and let humans fight to the death. people are blood thirsty individuals.
speaking of eating dogs, it is very common in iraq right now for dogs to be on the dinner table in really poor parts of the country.
not to mention it is not uncommon to see wild packs of dogs munching on dead insurgents bodys which lay in the streets and rot.
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Post by wingt74 on Jul 27, 2007 7:00:33 GMT -6
Seriously though...what I find interesting, is, PEOPLE are allowed to kill each other in a fight!! (MMA fighting, boxing etc) But, I s'pose, we coach a sport where part of the idea is the hit the crap out of the other guy. And I s'pose the difference is dogs don't have a choice where-as people do. (But, Tyson? Without boxing, he would be just a crazy, burnt out broke bum...oh wait, nevermind)
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 7:06:34 GMT -6
What about a Doggie Escort Service?? Im just saying.. And yes that is my dog.. I think my wife is trying to tell me that she wants a baby...
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Post by khalfie on Jul 27, 2007 7:40:28 GMT -6
khal, stop stealing your arguments from Cross Bones. Please. You know what they say about great minds... They like to play Sudoku... But if CB said the aforementioned, I am not shocked, he's a man of great wisdom... but did he say this? America is a country that arbitrarily kills animals, and has the gaul to say one kind is good killing, while the other is a heinous crime... huh?Raise dogs to fight, and kill the wounded... heinous! Raise horses to race, and kill the wounded... good killing!
Shoot ducks from the sky, and then have the dog bite the wounded bird and bring him back to the hunter to have its neck broken... good killing! Shoot dogs from the ring, or electrocute, or slam to the ground... heinous crime! Ok... that does sound bad... but killing is killing! There's no good way to die... unless, its instantly, while making sweet lo... anyway...
The crux of the argument, to me... is the arbitrariness of the legality of which animals its ok to kill... every animal, except mans best friend...
That is, unless man's best friend has been abandoned, or found wandering the streets, then he's put in a cage, and given a HUMANE euthanasia...
Final thought... As with all domestic dogs, the ancestors of all breeds were wolves. Wolves are shot indiscrimanately at all times, because they fight with farmers other animals... huh... see what I did there?
Found this to be interesting... """Blood sports involving the baiting of animals has occurred since antiquity, most famously at the Colosseum in Rome during the reign of the Roman Empire. However, in contemporary times, it is most associated with the English, who pursued it with utmost earnestness, which was barely known elsewhere in the world. For over six hundred years the pastime flourished, reaching the peak of its popularity during the sixteenth century. The various animal types involved in the bait allowed for the breed specialization and basic anatomical forms of fighting dogs, which we see today.
Dog fighting has been popular in many countries throughout history and continues to be practiced both legally and illegally around the world."""
How about this... """Afghanistan
Dog fighting has grown in popularity in Afghanistan since the fall of the Taliban, who banned it. Some Afghans claim that dog fighting is part of their democracy[citation needed]. Reportedly, police officers in Afghanistan do not enforce any laws regarding dog fights, and often watch the fights.[1]"""
If we can't have our dog fighting... the terrorist have won!
And did you know this... dah, dah, dah... dah, dah, dah...
""Japan
Dog fighting began in Japan before the end of the Kamakura period... With generic animal protection laws in place, dog fighting is not specifically banned in Japan, except in Tokyo, and can be seen in Kochi. Currently, most fighting dogs in Japan are Tosa, which is a breed that was developed in Kochi.[2]""
"""Latin America
Dog fighting is widely practiced in much of Latin America, especially in Argentina, Colombia and many parts of Brazil. The Dogo Argentino is by far the most common breed involved in the bloodsport."""
"""Pakistan
Dog fighting is illegal in Pakistan, though enforcement of dogfighting laws is infrequent"""
"""Russia
Although animal cruelty laws exist in Russia, dog fighting is widely practiced. """
"""
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Post by airman on Jul 27, 2007 7:58:19 GMT -6
I mayke could agree with khalfie but it is how the dogs are treated which does it for me. if two people want to fight in the ring they train, eat right and workout.
Dogfighters treat their dogs with such harsh measures.
I really think if ron mexico is convicted, he should have to live the life of one of his dogs for a month. chained to a stake, in a mud pit, fed only every other day.
dogs are special. they are god spelled backwards.
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Post by Yash on Jul 27, 2007 8:22:22 GMT -6
You just compared america to Afghanistan and Pakistan. Have you ever been to the middle east? I have, its not really that great of a place to raise your family. To say that we should allow dog fighting because afghanistan and pakistan do, I mean come on, lets be realistic here. Those countries think dogs are the scum of the earth. They hate dogs. We are a country of dog lovers. I know you are probably just posting this stuff to get a reaction and stir the pot, but lets not compare american society to the middle east, its 2 completely different worlds.
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Post by darebelcoach on Jul 27, 2007 8:22:46 GMT -6
I know this topic wasn't meant to start an argument, just some discussion, but like some people have said, it is the way the dogs are treated to get ready for a fight or how they are treated if they aren't tough enough, that is what the problem is. In MMA, boxing, etc. there is a ref who stops the fight if someone can't answer the bell...in dog fighting, a dog is left in the ring helpless until it is killed..not very humane.....in my opinion, Vick is guilty regardless of whether he actually participated or not, there is no way he didn't know what was going on....and to electrucute, hang, and smash dogs against the ground because they aren't deemed tough enough...come on, I don't care who you are, there is no person who can argue this and condone it and normal. I might be a little bias because I won a pit bull, he is 2 years old and I rescued from a shelter when he was 2 months old...he is a great dog who loves people and other dogs, but it sucks when you are walking him and people cross the street becaue they see the "mean looking pit bull"...something that is totally false, but that is just me, and I will get off my soapbox now!!
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Post by airraider on Jul 27, 2007 8:35:12 GMT -6
[glow=red,2,300]I know this topic wasn't meant to start an argument, just some discussion, but like some people have said[/glow], it is the way the dogs are treated to get ready for a fight or how they are treated if they aren't tough enough, that is what the problem is. In MMA, boxing, etc. there is a ref who stops the fight if someone can't answer the bell...in dog fighting, a dog is left in the ring helpless until it is killed..not very humane.....in my opinion, Vick is guilty regardless of whether he actually participated or not, there is no way he didn't know what was going on....and to electrucute, hang, and smash dogs against the ground because they aren't deemed tough enough...come on, I don't care who you are, there is no person who can argue this and condone it and normal. I might be a little bias because I won a pit bull, he is 2 years old and I rescued from a shelter when he was 2 months old...he is a great dog who loves people and other dogs, but it sucks when you are walking him and people cross the street becaue they see the "mean looking pit bull"...something that is totally false, but that is just me, and I will get off my soapbox now!! Thats exactly why it was started.. lol
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Post by tiger46 on Jul 27, 2007 10:24:43 GMT -6
If I could just borrow your soapbox for a moment, darebelcoach....
First of all, I could care less if the person(s) responsible is named Mike Vick. Who gives a crap about how rich and famous someone is when talking about animal cruelty? I do wish that whoever is responsible receives the maximum sentence.
"But lets say Mike did partake in the animal cruelty? Is it so bad?" Is that supposed to be a rhetorical question?
Those dogs- any dog, for that matter- are capable of doing so much.
And, yet, people with the morals of a sociopath do these sort of things to them.
I won't even get into the jerks that train those dogs to be so viscious that they attack and kill humans. Or, the owners on the other side of the spectrum that don't bother training them anything and wonder why their little precious mauled someone. I'm sure this thread was bait. But, that's okay. People shouldn't pretend to debate or discuss animal cruelty through some false sense of incomprehension and lack of understanding. It doesn't matter that America is a nation of dog lovers. Personally, I can't stand cats. But, I wouldn't condone abusing them. Dogfighting is a product of animal cruelty. The fact that other countries allow dogfights has no legal or moral bearing on the subject in America. Do something that is allowed in another country but, not in America. Stand in front of the judge and boldly say, "It's legal in Afghanistan, your honor." I bet that won't get you very far along your path to freedom. And, who cares what other countries do? If anything, that would help prove what degenerates these types of people are that participate in dogfighting in America. They could go to other countries and participate in it all that they want. Yet, they can't be bothered to travel there and go do it. Hmm...I wonder why? I don't know but, I bet winning $1,000 dollars U.S. is a lot more lucrative than winning $1,000 pesos in Columbia. Nevermind.... I guess that I'm done with the soapbox, too.
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Post by wildcat on Jul 27, 2007 10:52:12 GMT -6
[glow=red,2,300]I know this topic wasn't meant to start an argument, just some discussion, but like some people have said...[/glow], !! Thats exactly why it was started.. lol Khal - You are busted! Everyone else is on to your game now! ;D
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Post by coachcb on Jul 27, 2007 12:23:07 GMT -6
As someone said; let the justice system do its job and then I'll pass judgment. However, being indicted by a federal grand jury is never a positive thing on someone's record.
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Post by Yash on Jul 27, 2007 13:20:49 GMT -6
Grand juries convict 95% of indictments, and thats quite a bit higher than vick's career completion percentage.
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Post by airman on Jul 27, 2007 13:31:49 GMT -6
nascar racer greg biffle wants vick jailed. he is a big antidog fighting advocate.
he says these dog fighters steel family dogs and use them for practice with the real fight dogs.
so when fighto turns up missing and the people put up flyers for a reward. many times these dogs have been taken to be bait.
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Post by darebelcoach on Jul 27, 2007 19:57:08 GMT -6
Not on the soapbox, just want to correct an error in my previous posting...I stated that I "won" a pit bull...actually, I "OWN" a pit bull...don't want people thinking I went to some contest and drew a lucky number for a free dog!!! Anyway, I agree, regardless if the person is famous or not, animal crulety is incomprehensible.....I just hope he and his oher misfit friends do some hard time for the things they did!!!! By the way, nice comment on the 95% rate being higher than Vick's completion rate..... Good luck to everyone in the upcoming season!!!
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Post by saintrad on Jul 27, 2007 20:23:14 GMT -6
Grand juries convict 95% of indictments, and thats quite a bit higher than vick's career completion percentage. actually it is significantly better than his completion percentage.
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Post by coachjim on Jul 27, 2007 21:18:04 GMT -6
I am in the 7% minority that doesn't get outraged when pit-bulls are trained to fight and are put down. I know, I know, my wife has already threatened to divorce me on this topic and it's not the common view. I simply don't understand the outrage and anger. So, there you go... I took the bait. I'm not a hunter, a farmer who puts dogs in a bag to drown them, a foriegnor who eats them, an animal abuser, nor would do it myself but it just doesn't bother me for some reason.
What does bother me is Vick's poor choices as a role model to kids, to go against the status quo and be involved in such taboo activity. One day i'm having a talk to my kid about Chris Benoit, then Bonds, and the next about Vick. What role model's actions will I be smoothing over tomorrow or in the future? All of them, eventually?
Answer: Probably my own son's as an inevitable product of his environment, like his role models.
I should add before I get attacked by the other 93% majority that I was mauled by a dog when I was little that hadn't been trained to fight. Maybe that has something to do with my indifference. It's the recent endless onslaught of anti-heroes, however, that bothers me the most. And their indifference, not to animals, but to kids and humanity.
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