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Post by 19delta on Jan 13, 2023 9:35:18 GMT -6
That’s obsolete. The Army has completely overhauled the fitness assessment. When I was in, it was push-ups, sit-ups, and a 2-mile run, all based on age. It was a long time ago, but I think I had to do like 46 push-ups to “max out” the push-up test. Minimum was like 28. Now, they do “hand release” push-ups. I think soldiers have to do 10? When I first got to basic training (fall of 1996), the first thing we had to do was an entry-level PT test. It was just 10 push-ups. If you couldn’t do 10 push-ups, you couldn’t start basic training. You would instead get sent to a Fitness Battalion to give a chance to whip your ass into shape. I thought it was a joke. 10 push-ups? C’mon…this is the United States Army! But, I kid you not…there were guys who couldn’t do 10 push-ups. There were guys who couldn’t do 1. I’m talking about grown-ass men. I always wondered about those guys. Like, what were they doing in the months before they left for basic training? Where exactly did they think they were going? 😂 |
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Post by silkyice on Jan 13, 2023 10:55:27 GMT -6
I am incredulous about the 300 pushups. I have high school kids in my PE classes who can't do ONE pushup, let alone 300. Herschel Walker could do 2,000 in one day. 😁 I remember reading that years ago in a Sports Illustrated article. Supposedly he did that every day iirc. Isn't that physically impossible? How long would that take? |
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Post by larrymoe on Jan 13, 2023 11:14:02 GMT -6
Now, they do “hand release” push-ups. I think soldiers have to do 10? I mean, the guys that have kids do 400 push-ups because they're soft is one thing, but man this is just soft as hell. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Jan 13, 2023 11:46:49 GMT -6
Now, they do “hand release” push-ups. I think soldiers have to do 10? I mean, the guys that have kids do 400 push-ups because they're soft is one thing, but man this is just soft as hell. Lol yessir |
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Post by fantom on Jan 13, 2023 11:47:10 GMT -6
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Post by tripsclosed on Jan 13, 2023 11:47:27 GMT -6
Herschel Walker could do 2,000 in one day. 😁 I remember reading that years ago in a Sports Illustrated article. Supposedly he did that every day iirc. Isn't that physically impossible? How long would that take? I'm sure if he really did that many, it was split into sessions throughout his day |
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Post by Defcord on Jan 13, 2023 12:52:20 GMT -6
I remember reading that years ago in a Sports Illustrated article. Supposedly he did that every day iirc. Isn't that physically impossible? How long would that take? I'm sure if he really did that many, it was split into sessions throughout his day I heard him say once on ESPN or something. "I used to do 50 pushups and 50 sit ups every commercial break on TV. And I watch a lot of TV." I don't know if he can still do that many pushups but I easily got that many texts during the last election cycle from his campaign it seemed like. |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Jan 13, 2023 13:03:29 GMT -6
Hershel would have never lied about this..............................................................
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Post by 19delta on Jan 13, 2023 13:04:32 GMT -6
Now, they do “hand release” push-ups. I think soldiers have to do 10? I mean, the guys that have kids do 400 push-ups because they're soft is one thing, but man this is just soft as hell. The hand release push-ups are actually tougher than the ones I did in the Army 25 years ago. In addition, they also do a med ball throw, a trap bar deadlift, and some kind of drag/carry obstacle course. It’s a much better test of overall soldier fitness than the old Army PFT I did. |
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Post by coachcb on Jan 13, 2023 13:16:22 GMT -6
I don't agree with these kinds of workouts for a variety of reasons.. But, to play Devil's Advocate, we're seeing an uptick of rhabdo-induced workouts as of late. A few of these workouts don't seem to be more intense than some of the crap we did back in the 80's and 90's. I remember some hour long wrestling conditioning sessions that were pretty rough.
We've all talked about how kids, on average, are in much poorer shape. Could this be contributing to these situations?
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Post by NC1974 on Jan 13, 2023 13:39:10 GMT -6
I don't agree with these kinds of workouts for a variety of reasons.. But, to play Devil's Advocate, we're seeing an uptick of rhabdo-induced workouts as of late. A few of these workouts don't seem to be more intense than some of the crap we did back in the 80's and 90's. I remember some hour long wrestling conditioning sessions that were pretty rough. We've all talked about how kids, on average, are in much poorer shape. Could this be contributing to these situations? My guess would be that kids' poor fitness levels might contribute to this. If that's true then I think it's even more important that coaches cover their behinds by having a simple, but well planned progressive routine. We know how to build strength in young people. We just need to avoid the urge to do something novel or bad a$$ because it's seen as cool or bad a$$. Unfortunately, there is nothing very sexy or click worthy about doing 3 by 8 and progressively adding weight or whatever your progressive routine looks like. |
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immiru
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Post by immiru on Jan 13, 2023 13:57:44 GMT -6
That’s obsolete. The Army has completely overhauled the fitness assessment. When I was in, it was push-ups, sit-ups, and a 2-mile run, all based on age. It was a long time ago, but I think I had to do like 46 push-ups to “max out” the push-up test. Minimum was like 28. Now, they do “hand release” push-ups. I think soldiers have to do 10? I was commissioned in 96 a month before I turned 30 and my standards for push ups were 39 min and 77 max. I believe that is the same standard today. |
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Post by zach3wr on Jan 13, 2023 14:36:44 GMT -6
I could be missing something, but this is the first I've heard of a link between rhabdo and creatine. A cursory google search appears there is no link between creatine use and Rhabdo.
You usually hear about rhabdo after a long layoff and the S&C coach gets overzealous on the first few days back.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 13, 2023 15:02:11 GMT -6
That’s obsolete. The Army has completely overhauled the fitness assessment. When I was in, it was push-ups, sit-ups, and a 2-mile run, all based on age. It was a long time ago, but I think I had to do like 46 push-ups to “max out” the push-up test. Minimum was like 28. Now, they do “hand release” push-ups. I think soldiers have to do 10? I was commissioned in 96 a month before I turned 30 and my standards for push ups were 39 min and 77 max. I believe that is the same standard today. I don’t know how the new test is scored exactly, but, according to this, the minimum is 10 of the hand release push-ups. usarmybasic.com/hand-release-push-up-hrp |
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Post by CS on Jan 13, 2023 15:04:29 GMT -6
I could be missing something, but this is the first I've heard of a link between rhabdo and creatine. A cursory google search appears there is no link between creatine use and Rhabdo. You usually hear about rhabdo after a long layoff and the S&C coach gets overzealous on the first few days back. Dehydration doesn’t cause it directly but it can make it worse because without fluids your body can’t rid the toxins from muscle breakdown |
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Post by groundchuck on Jan 13, 2023 15:29:47 GMT -6
I had a kid that was a wrestler years ago that knocked out over 500 in a row, he was steadily pressing for almost 20 minutes. Wrestlers are just built different. |
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Post by irishdog on Jan 13, 2023 15:48:08 GMT -6
Used to have my boys do a push-up workout and other days an ab workout, both to music. Song was called "Bring Sally Up, Bring Sally Down" and it was killer. Some days the ab workout would be straight leg lifts, some days it would be crunches, some days it would be alternating leg thrusts in and out, some days it would be Russian twists. Some days the push-ups would be regular, some days it would be diamond push-ups, some days it would be wide arms, some days they would pause on the up and pause on the down. We would conclude our upper body days with the push-ups, and end our lower body days with the ab workout. Done during our summer strength phase.
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Post by 19delta on Jan 13, 2023 16:38:45 GMT -6
The thing is, these kinds of workouts are dumb for lots of reasons. But the biggest is that the accountability is going to fall 100% on the coach’s neck. When I was last coaching high school football (2009), if something like this happened, it would probably result in nothing more than a talking to from the AD or principal. If a kid got sick from the workout, it was partly on the kid because he didn’t drink water, was out of shape, etc, etc.
But in the current climate? It’s going to fall on the adults in charge. So why would someone put themselves in such a bad position? Why expose yourself to lawsuits or getting fired? For the little positive that can come out of an activity like this, it’s assuming an awful lot of risk.
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Post by tripsclosed on Jan 13, 2023 16:55:01 GMT -6
The thing is, these kinds of workouts are dumb for lots of reasons. But the biggest is that the accountability is going to follow 100% on the coach’s neck. When I was last coaching high school football (2009), if something like this happened, it would probably result in nothing more than a talking to from the AD or principal. If a kid got sick from the workout, it was partly on the kid because he didn’t drink water, was out of shape, etc, etc. But in the current climate? It’s going to fall on the adults in charge. So why would someone put themselves in such a bad position? Why expose yourself to lawsuits or getting fired? For the little positive that can come out of an activity like this, it’s assuming an awful lot of risk. Bingo! Low potential payoff, high potential risk. The end. |
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 13, 2023 23:10:44 GMT -6
Yeah, this is all kinds of dumb. 1 - Hardos who don't know anything about proper training shouldn't be implementing programming 2 - Creatine is a lame excuse, it's honestly the most thoroughly studied supplement in the history of science 3 - The kids were almost certainly in poor shape and likely detrained from Xmas break, which really brings us back to #1 4 - irishdog, that song is called Flower by Moby and it's a banger. Those workouts are awful though. 5 - Rhabdo, in my understanding, comes from way too much volume in too short of an amount of time for someone who isn't ready for that kind of work. Again, see #1. Also, I've heard that when the big muscles get fatigued and smaller muscles have to do more than their normal share of work, that'll lead to rhabdo. FFS, just read 5/3/1 and leave the stupid 'mental toughness' type crap in the dumpster where it belongs. |
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Post by irishdog on Jan 14, 2023 10:22:33 GMT -6
Yeah, this is all kinds of dumb. 1 - Hardos who don't know anything about proper training shouldn't be implementing programming 2 - Creatine is a lame excuse, it's honestly the most thoroughly studied supplement in the history of science 3 - The kids were almost certainly in poor shape and likely detrained from Xmas break, which really brings us back to #1 4 - irishdog , that song is called Flower by Moby and it's a banger. Those workouts are awful though. 5 - Rhabdo, in my understanding, comes from way too much volume in too short of an amount of time for someone who isn't ready for that kind of work. Again, see #1. Also, I've heard that when the big muscles get fatigued and smaller muscles have to do more than their normal share of work, that'll lead to rhabdo. FFS, just read 5/3/1 and leave the stupid 'mental toughness' type crap in the dumpster where it belongs. Thanks for the clarification. Those "workouts" were used at the end of the main sessions to promote physical/mental team building. We didn't end every session with those workouts. Sometimes we engaged in what we called "team wars" (tug-o-wars, sled relays, tire relays, etc.). |
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Post by mariner42 on Jan 14, 2023 12:17:39 GMT -6
Yeah, this is all kinds of dumb. 1 - Hardos who don't know anything about proper training shouldn't be implementing programming 2 - Creatine is a lame excuse, it's honestly the most thoroughly studied supplement in the history of science 3 - The kids were almost certainly in poor shape and likely detrained from Xmas break, which really brings us back to #1 4 - irishdog , that song is called Flower by Moby and it's a banger. Those workouts are awful though. 5 - Rhabdo, in my understanding, comes from way too much volume in too short of an amount of time for someone who isn't ready for that kind of work. Again, see #1. Also, I've heard that when the big muscles get fatigued and smaller muscles have to do more than their normal share of work, that'll lead to rhabdo. FFS, just read 5/3/1 and leave the stupid 'mental toughness' type crap in the dumpster where it belongs. Thanks for the clarification. Those "workouts" were used at the end of the main sessions to promote physical/mental team building. We didn't end every session with those workouts. Sometimes we engaged in what we called "team wars" (tug-o-wars, sled relays, tire relays, etc.). To be clear, I meant awful in the 'really hard and sucky but also kinda fun' way, not awful in the 'looking down my nose at the knuckle draggers' tone that the rest of my post had. |
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Post by coachcb on Jan 17, 2023 9:25:59 GMT -6
I don't agree with these kinds of workouts for a variety of reasons.. But, to play Devil's Advocate, we're seeing an uptick of rhabdo-induced workouts as of late. A few of these workouts don't seem to be more intense than some of the crap we did back in the 80's and 90's. I remember some hour long wrestling conditioning sessions that were pretty rough. We've all talked about how kids, on average, are in much poorer shape. Could this be contributing to these situations? My guess would be that kids' poor fitness levels might contribute to this. If that's true then I think it's even more important that coaches cover their behinds by having a simple, but well planned progressive routine. We know how to build strength in young people. We just need to avoid the urge to do something novel or bad a$$ because it's seen as cool or bad a$$. Unfortunately, there is nothing very sexy or click worthy about doing 3 by 8 and progressively adding weight or whatever your progressive routine looks like.
I agree, completely. There is a part of me that wonders if we're going to run into a situation where a "standard" workout triggers rhabdo in a kid that is completely out of shape. I've read two stories of untrained individuals ending up in the hospital after a difficult workout but nothing we'd call over the top. I understand that much of this comes down knowing your population and working up in a reasonable progression. But, I still see some potential landmines.
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