|
Post by tripsclosed on Jan 4, 2023 15:08:16 GMT -6
You don’t and won’t see the same defenses the cool guys on TV see. This... I always watch those high levels and wonder how Y cross gets open so much, or simple 4 verts. Dudes are running 147 different coverages and someone screws it up... or some dude wins 1 on 1. Occasionally something cool gets packaged together that's worth it, but Power 5 and NFL (most of the time) is a completely different game. Yeah makes you wonder, if offenses can get by with a handful of simple plays, what about defenses, too? I get defense is reactionary, and you need to have an answer for stuff, but imagine if offenses did what defenses do and said "Well we might see Oklahoma coverage this season, so we are going to install these 5 different plays that are tailored to beat Oklahoma coverage and are only good against Oklahoma Coverage, and we might see Nebraska coverage so we have 4 plays for that as well, and we might see this front so we are going to install 3 different formation sets to address it" instead of using a handful plays, as you mentioned plays like Y-Cross and 4 Verts, that give you decent to good answers vs all different kinds of coverages and looks. I respect him a ton so don't get it twisted, but that is one of if not the main reason why Saban's playbook is the phonebook it is, is because every time a team gains 5 yards on him one time from a formation set and/or play, he has a panic attack and adds another coverage/front/check tailored to stop that specific thing. You don't have to go as simple as Spot Drop 3 ONLY, but I think there's a healthy middle ground between that and Saban's defense... EDIT: Fully expecting to get a PM later on about this from one of Keating or Pithy's 15 different straw/burner accounts 😆
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Jan 5, 2023 0:06:44 GMT -6
You don’t and won’t see the same defenses the cool guys on TV see. This... I always watch those high levels and wonder how Y cross gets open so much, or simple 4 verts. Dudes are running 147 different coverages and someone screws it up... or some dude wins 1 on 1. Occasionally something cool gets packaged together that's worth it, but Power 5 and NFL (most of the time) is a completely different game. Agreed, it never ceases to shock me how many mental errors take place on the coverage side in NFL games, and a lot of them seem to come in regards to the multiple checks, tags, and adjustments they have. You end up with players who can't get on the same page because they only repped a given specific check a few times at full speed before, so they werent able to execute it come game time. And they have so many that its easy to see why. Even with it being their profession, there is only so much that a person can remember/execute. On the opposite end, I once coached with a guy who played in the league for Tony Dungy. He said that not only was his college playbook far more complex than what they did in the NFL, but so was our defense that we were running at the HS level. He was not exaggerating.
|
|
|
Post by tripsclosed on Jan 5, 2023 8:38:09 GMT -6
This... I always watch those high levels and wonder how Y cross gets open so much, or simple 4 verts. Dudes are running 147 different coverages and someone screws it up... or some dude wins 1 on 1. Occasionally something cool gets packaged together that's worth it, but Power 5 and NFL (most of the time) is a completely different game. Agreed, it never ceases to shock me how many mental errors take place on the coverage side in NFL games, and a lot of them seem to come in regards to the multiple checks, tags, and adjustments they have. You end up with players who can't get on the same page because they only repped a given specific check a few times at full speed before, so they werent able to execute it come game time. And they have so many that its easy to see why. Even with it being their profession, there is only so much that a person can remember/execute. On the opposite end, I once coached with a guy who played in the league for Tony Dungy. He said that not only was his college playbook far more complex than what they did in the NFL, but so was our defense that we were running at the HS level. He was not exaggerating. [sarcasm alert]Yeah but how many Super Bowls did Tony Dungy win? 🙄😆
|
|
|
Post by Defcord on Jan 5, 2023 8:56:41 GMT -6
This... I always watch those high levels and wonder how Y cross gets open so much, or simple 4 verts. Dudes are running 147 different coverages and someone screws it up... or some dude wins 1 on 1. Occasionally something cool gets packaged together that's worth it, but Power 5 and NFL (most of the time) is a completely different game. Agreed, it never ceases to shock me how many mental errors take place on the coverage side in NFL games, and a lot of them seem to come in regards to the multiple checks, tags, and adjustments they have. You end up with players who can't get on the same page because they only repped a given specific check a few times at full speed before, so they werent able to execute it come game time. And they have so many that its easy to see why. Even with it being their profession, there is only so much that a person can remember/execute. On the opposite end, I once coached with a guy who played in the league for Tony Dungy. He said that not only was his college playbook far more complex than what they did in the NFL, but so was our defense that we were running at the HS level. He was not exaggerating. How much of that is errors they are making versus the route adjustments that are built into the passing game in the NFL. I am admittedly ignorant to the depths of NFL offensive schemes but I had read an article about the Rams Greatest Show on Turf and it talked about how when ran correctly it was impossible to not be open because it was all based on attacking defensive alignment/reaction/movement. I could be completely full of crap on this, but I believe the Colts system when Manning was the QB was pretty similar. I had heard Peyton talk about how they only ran like 8 base concepts that all adjusted to be open every play. I am sure part of it is a lack of execution on the part of NFL defenders as well, but those two pieces of information always kind of intrigued me.
|
|
|
Post by coachwoodall on Jan 5, 2023 9:02:21 GMT -6
This... I always watch those high levels and wonder how Y cross gets open so much, or simple 4 verts. Dudes are running 147 different coverages and someone screws it up... or some dude wins 1 on 1. Occasionally something cool gets packaged together that's worth it, but Power 5 and NFL (most of the time) is a completely different game. Yeah makes you wonder, if offenses can get by with a handful of simple plays, what about defenses, too? I get defense is reactionary, and you need to have an answer for stuff, but imagine if offenses did what defenses do and said "Well we might see Oklahoma coverage this season, so we are going to install these 5 different plays that are tailored to beat Oklahoma coverage and are only good against Oklahoma Coverage, and we might see Nebraska coverage so we have 4 plays for that as well, and we might see this front so we are going to install 3 different formation sets to address it" instead of using a handful plays, as you mentioned plays like Y-Cross and 4 Verts, that give you decent to good answers vs all different kinds of coverages and looks. I respect him a ton so don't get it twisted, but that is one of if not the main reason why Saban's playbook is the phonebook it is, is because every time a team gains 5 yards on him one time from a formation set and/or play, he has a panic attack and adds another coverage/front/check tailored to stop that specific thing. You don't have to go as simple as Spot Drop 3 ONLY, but I think there's a healthy middle ground between that and Saban's defense... EDIT: Fully expecting to get a PM later on about this from one of Keating or Pithy's 15 different straw/burner accounts 😆 When I called it, we were always in an Under front with one exception. We had 3 blitzes for each ISLB, a couple of line twists, and based out of 2 high coverage. I can't tell you how many times I would call "Base Read". We did have a couple of change ups beyond that, but our base was run 75%+ of the time.
|
|
|
Post by wolverine55 on Jan 5, 2023 9:31:05 GMT -6
Good gracious alive I have beaten teams that had 15 d1 players on the team, but 7 NFL players?? That is crazy! Has there ever been another high school team with 7+ NFL players on their roster? Serious question! I could have sworn I read an article in the not-so-distant-past that talked about a high school defense that ended up having 7 NFL players on it, but a just completed Google search didn't provide me with anything.
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on Jan 5, 2023 14:42:50 GMT -6
I always liked this answer by Belichick about this topic. There are various ways to do it. www.patriots.com/news/bill-belichick-press-conference-transcript-183406Q: You've talked about you guys being a game plan offense. Where was the idea of being a game plan offense born from for you? In terms of it being the right way to do it, compared to a team like the Steelers when Bill Cowher was there, that this what they do and you have to stop it? BB: I don't know, I guess I've always had that philosophy. You try to do what you think works best against that particular opponent certainly within the framework of what you're comfortable doing, whether that's offense, defense or special teams, it's all the same. [Former Head Coach] Wayne Hardin at Navy maybe, if you want to go back a ways; Detroit, the Giants. I don't know. Q: Would you agree with the thought that it's an ambitious thing to try to do because you have to be able to execute in all areas, as opposed to majoring in one thing? BB: I'll just give you this example. When I was in high school at Annapolis, I played for Al Laramore, who was Maryland Coach of the Year, a Hall of Fame high school coach in Delaware and all that. So, he's a pretty good coach. We won a lot of games, we won a ton of games and we ran four plays. We ran four plays: 22 Power, 24 Quick Trap, 28 Counter and Sprint Right and that was it. When we ran them to the other side, we just flipped formation. The whole line flipped and the play went the other way: 22 Power, 24 Quick Trap, 28 Counter and Sprint Left. That was the offense, that was the entire offense and we won a lot of games. Then the next year when I went to Andover and played for Coach [Steve] Sorota there, who again was a great player, great coach, played with [Vince] Lombardi at Fordham and was one of the most renowned coaches I'd say ever in New England prep school football or maybe high school football period for that matter. The quarterback called his own plays. They didn't send them in; they didn't tell him what to call. They got in the huddle and he may have asked for a suggestion from me or Ernie [Adams] or somebody, but he called whatever he wanted to call and that was the offense. So, that was about as opposite as you could get it from one year to the next year. We won just as many games. It was totally different, but both were very successful. So what's the right way to do it? What's the wrong way to do it? I don't know. Whatever works, whatever you believe in. But then it all has to line up that way. I got to Baltimore with Coach [Ted] Marchibroda, Bert Jones. Bert called all the plays. I want to say it was his second year in the league. He called all the plays. Call timeout, come over to the sideline, fourth-and-one, Burt would say, 'What do you want me to call?' Ted would say, 'We have 24 Hunch, we have 36 Bob, we have Play Pass 37 Y Flag, whatever you feel good about.' 'Alright.' Other players and coaches would come up and say, 'What are we going to run?' 'I don't know, it depends what Burt calls.' There are other teams, Coach [Ray] Perkins, Coach [Bill] Parcells, those guys, called every play. Not that we wouldn't audible to a play or something but he called every play. So, what's right and what's wrong? I don't know. It can all work. If you do it right and you have the other things – if you do it one way, you have to have other things that are in place to do that. There's a reason for doing it. There are also some drawbacks to doing it that way. When that happens, you have to have some way to counter it. That's the same way on defense. When I was with the Broncos and Joe Collier, there were game plans where we had 60 different fronts – fronts. It's hard to imagine 60 different fronts in a 3-4 defense really, but that what it was. It was 60 different alignments, which would include a linebacker that was blitzing so any one of the four linebackers were blitzing so that was part of it.
I got to the Giants when Bill [Parcells] came in, we put in a 3-4 there. We played one front with one adjustment. We reduced the end on the weak side from a four-technique to a three-technique and that's it. Then I'd say 95 percent of the snaps that we played from '81 to '90 that weren't nickel snaps; over 90 percent of them had to be either base or reduced front, maybe 95 percent. It might have been higher than that. Two good defenses: the Orange Crush, the Broncos defense, that was a great defense. The Giants defense, that was a great defense. The same 3-4, two totally different philosophies. So what's the right way to do it? Both work.
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Jan 5, 2023 16:30:28 GMT -6
Agreed, it never ceases to shock me how many mental errors take place on the coverage side in NFL games, and a lot of them seem to come in regards to the multiple checks, tags, and adjustments they have. You end up with players who can't get on the same page because they only repped a given specific check a few times at full speed before, so they werent able to execute it come game time. And they have so many that its easy to see why. Even with it being their profession, there is only so much that a person can remember/execute. On the opposite end, I once coached with a guy who played in the league for Tony Dungy. He said that not only was his college playbook far more complex than what they did in the NFL, but so was our defense that we were running at the HS level. He was not exaggerating. How much of that is errors they are making versus the route adjustments that are built into the passing game in the NFL. I am admittedly ignorant to the depths of NFL offensive schemes but I had read an article about the Rams Greatest Show on Turf and it talked about how when ran correctly it was impossible to not be open because it was all based on attacking defensive alignment/reaction/movement. I could be completely full of crap on this, but I believe the Colts system when Manning was the QB was pretty similar. I had heard Peyton talk about how they only ran like 8 base concepts that all adjusted to be open every play. I am sure part of it is a lack of execution on the part of NFL defenders as well, but those two pieces of information always kind of intrigued me. I'm not, and I don't think the others are either, writing about route adjustments, or option routes, or throwing to leverage. I am writing about the times when there is a clear bust in coverage responsibilities: ie two defenders jump the slant and nobody covers the wheel. I know that NFL teams at times leave gaps in their zones (assuming you can't cover everything), I am not referring to that either.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jan 5, 2023 17:07:00 GMT -6
How much of that is errors they are making versus the route adjustments that are built into the passing game in the NFL. I am admittedly ignorant to the depths of NFL offensive schemes but I had read an article about the Rams Greatest Show on Turf and it talked about how when ran correctly it was impossible to not be open because it was all based on attacking defensive alignment/reaction/movement. I could be completely full of crap on this, but I believe the Colts system when Manning was the QB was pretty similar. I had heard Peyton talk about how they only ran like 8 base concepts that all adjusted to be open every play. I am sure part of it is a lack of execution on the part of NFL defenders as well, but those two pieces of information always kind of intrigued me. I'm not, and I don't think the others are either, writing about route adjustments, or option routes, or throwing to leverage. I am writing about the times when there is a clear bust in coverage responsibilities: ie two defenders jump the slant and nobody covers the wheel. I know that NFL teams at times leave gaps in their zones (assuming you can't cover everything), I am not referring to that either. Right. There is a difference in the guy is open and the guy is uncovered for a TD/big play.
|
|
|
Post by tripsclosed on Jan 5, 2023 18:08:06 GMT -6
How much of that is errors they are making versus the route adjustments that are built into the passing game in the NFL. I am admittedly ignorant to the depths of NFL offensive schemes but I had read an article about the Rams Greatest Show on Turf and it talked about how when ran correctly it was impossible to not be open because it was all based on attacking defensive alignment/reaction/movement. I could be completely full of crap on this, but I believe the Colts system when Manning was the QB was pretty similar. I had heard Peyton talk about how they only ran like 8 base concepts that all adjusted to be open every play. I am sure part of it is a lack of execution on the part of NFL defenders as well, but those two pieces of information always kind of intrigued me. I'm not, and I don't think the others are either, writing about route adjustments, or option routes, or throwing to leverage. I am writing about the times when there is a clear bust in coverage responsibilities: ie two defenders jump the slant and nobody covers the wheel. I know that NFL teams at times leave gaps in their zones (assuming you can't cover everything), I am not referring to that either. THIS!
|
|
|
Post by coachdubyah on Jan 10, 2023 13:27:10 GMT -6
Chances are there is a play that you already run and its simply the fact that you are over-looking something that is an easy fix. Fix it and it will be your best play next season.
For us, it's Trap.
Just need to clean up a couple of things and we will be in business.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jan 10, 2023 13:40:40 GMT -6
How much of that is errors they are making versus the route adjustments that are built into the passing game in the NFL. I am admittedly ignorant to the depths of NFL offensive schemes but I had read an article about the Rams Greatest Show on Turf and it talked about how when ran correctly it was impossible to not be open because it was all based on attacking defensive alignment/reaction/movement. I could be completely full of crap on this, but I believe the Colts system when Manning was the QB was pretty similar. I had heard Peyton talk about how they only ran like 8 base concepts that all adjusted to be open every play. I am sure part of it is a lack of execution on the part of NFL defenders as well, but those two pieces of information always kind of intrigued me. I'm not, and I don't think the others are either, writing about route adjustments, or option routes, or throwing to leverage. I am writing about the times when there is a clear bust in coverage responsibilities: ie two defenders jump the slant and nobody covers the wheel. I know that NFL teams at times leave gaps in their zones (assuming you can't cover everything), I am not referring to that either. It's because the game is played by human beings and sometimes human beings make mistakes.
|
|
|
Post by 3rdandlong on Jan 10, 2023 13:42:16 GMT -6
In 50 years I have never had 15 D1 players (total) on teams I coached, let alone7 NFL players. We have lots of Ralph's who carry a lunch pail, not many Thor's who can carry Mjollnir (Thor's hammer). In 20 years of coaching I never coached a single D1 football player. Did have a D1 wrestler play football, but no football players. In 9 years of being a HC, I only had 6 kids even go on to play at least D3. Idk what that means about me, but I choose to think it means I could do quite a bit with not very much. So many parents and other gurus in my area say that I don't "get kids out" because I've never coached a D-1 player before. Who cares about the fact that I've never coached a player who was D-1 caliber.
|
|
|
Post by tripsclosed on Jan 10, 2023 14:01:42 GMT -6
In 20 years of coaching I never coached a single D1 football player. Did have a D1 wrestler play football, but no football players. In 9 years of being a HC, I only had 6 kids even go on to play at least D3. Idk what that means about me, but I choose to think it means I could do quite a bit with not very much. So many parents and other gurus in my area say that I don't "get kids out" because I've never coached a D-1 player before. Who cares about the fact that I've never coached a player who was D-1 caliber. Ask the parents why they aren't popping out FBS-caliber players for you to coach 😆
|
|
|
Post by cqmiller on Jan 10, 2023 14:06:12 GMT -6
Nothing to do with you larrymoe or 3rdandlong or anyone else... those kids I had were going NFL from the time some women said yes 15 or 16 years before I ever came in the picture. I just got the opportunity to coach them. I'll argue all day that there are coaches going 2-8, 1-9, 3-7 that are way better coaches than some of them going 10-2, 11-1, 9-2. Some guys getting a roster to 2-8 is a better job than the guy who got their roster to 9-2. Look at the NC game last night. There are gonna be people who think GA staff is "better" than the TCU staff... that game looked like it was won (for the most part) 18-24 years ago, not because of anything either coaching staff did. GA was a much better football team and after the scare last week, I'm sure were as focused as they have ever been for a football game. TCU staff did a hell of a job. People are too quick for praise and too quick for dumping on dudes. I coached a LOT more the past 4 years at a school with 0 college football players than I ever did at the school with all the NFL players. I just had to not screw it up at the other place. I had to coach my @ss off to get to 10 wins in 4 years at the new place.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jan 10, 2023 14:50:44 GMT -6
Look at the NC game last night. There are gonna be people who think GA staff is "better" than the TCU staff... that game looked like it was won (for the most part) 18-24 years ago, not because of anything either coaching staff did. GA was a much better football team and after the scare last week, I'm sure were as focused as they have ever been for a football game. TCU staff did a hell of a job. People are too quick for praise and too quick for dumping on dudes. I will disagree here only because I think that the number job of a college coach is recruiting. Georgia recruited better. A lot better.
|
|
|
Post by carookie on Jan 10, 2023 15:08:23 GMT -6
I'm not, and I don't think the others are either, writing about route adjustments, or option routes, or throwing to leverage. I am writing about the times when there is a clear bust in coverage responsibilities: ie two defenders jump the slant and nobody covers the wheel. I know that NFL teams at times leave gaps in their zones (assuming you can't cover everything), I am not referring to that either. It's because the game is played by human beings and sometimes human beings make mistakes. I get that, the argument is that there are a significant number of mental errors at the pro level, relative to their experience and time spent in the sport. And that much of that is, from our end, being attributed to having a massive amount of coverages, adjustments, and checks, that often leave the defenders confused or in a state of miscommunication. We all understand that the game is being played by humans.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Jan 10, 2023 17:12:14 GMT -6
In 20 years of coaching I never coached a single D1 football player. Did have a D1 wrestler play football, but no football players. In 9 years of being a HC, I only had 6 kids even go on to play at least D3. Idk what that means about me, but I choose to think it means I could do quite a bit with not very much. So many parents and other gurus in my area say that I don't "get kids out" because I've never coached a D-1 player before. Who cares about the fact that I've never coached a player who was D-1 caliber. Oh, I don't care. I just find it weird that after 20 years, 7 different HS and some really good teams (1 semifinal, 1 quarterfinal and 10 playoff appearances) I never ran into at least one D1, FCS, or D2 football player.
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Jan 10, 2023 20:27:38 GMT -6
It's because the game is played by human beings and sometimes human beings make mistakes. I get that, the argument is that there are a significant number of mental errors at the pro level, relative to their experience and time spent in the sport. And that much of that is, from our end, being attributed to having a massive amount of coverages, adjustments, and checks, that often leave the defenders confused or in a state of miscommunication. We all understand that the game is being played by humans. Some probably. Some may be attributable that a guy is just dumb. Some happen because a guy who knows better bites on a run fake or a pump fake. You know why we notice them at that level? Because they don't really happen that often.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jan 11, 2023 8:30:40 GMT -6
So many parents and other gurus in my area say that I don't "get kids out" because I've never coached a D-1 player before. Who cares about the fact that I've never coached a player who was D-1 caliber. Oh, I don't care. I just find it weird that after 20 years, 7 different HS and some really good teams (1 semifinal, 1 quarterfinal and 10 playoff appearances) I never ran into at least one D1, FCS, or D2 football player. I will agree. That is wild. What size school and what geographical location? Our school has 190 students 10-12. Montgomery, AL. We played three SEC running backs this season. Three. One to Auburn, one to Bama, one to LSU (will get offers from everyone - young). That is just RB's. We played a team with 15 d1 players on it. Again, we only have 190 students grade 10-12.
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Jan 11, 2023 8:36:51 GMT -6
Oh, I don't care. I just find it weird that after 20 years, 7 different HS and some really good teams (1 semifinal, 1 quarterfinal and 10 playoff appearances) I never ran into at least one D1, FCS, or D2 football player. I will agree. That is wild. What size school and what geographical location? Our school has 190 students 10-12. Montgomery, AL. We played three SEC running backs this season. Three. One to Auburn, one to Bama, one to LSU (will get offers from everyone - young). That is just RB's. We played a team with 15 d1 players on it. Again, we only have 190 students grade 10-12. Central Illinois. Schools ranging from 230 kids(2 school coop), 325, 370ish, 600, 750 (2 schools around this size) and 800+. Coached at schools in the 1-4A playoffs in Illinois. Illinois has 8 classes. I coached against maybe 3 or 4 D1 players in that time frame.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Jan 11, 2023 8:47:56 GMT -6
I will agree. That is wild. What size school and what geographical location? Our school has 190 students 10-12. Montgomery, AL. We played three SEC running backs this season. Three. One to Auburn, one to Bama, one to LSU (will get offers from everyone - young). That is just RB's. We played a team with 15 d1 players on it. Again, we only have 190 students grade 10-12. Central Illinois. Schools ranging from 230 kids(2 school coop), 325, 370ish, 600, 750 (2 schools around this size) and 800+. Coached at schools in the 1-4A playoffs in Illinois. Illinois has 8 classes. I coached against maybe 3 or 4 D1 players in that time frame. That just seems wild to me. I have coached 28. Have 3 in the school currently. (Senior, soph, 8th grade). 8th grader doesn't have offers yet and only played middle school, but he will be. He is 6'2" now and brother plays in the NFL. Probably coached against 150 plus d1 players in my coaching career. Several NFL players. Just this year: 24 for sure and counting. 2 kids picked up SEC offers in the last two weeks.
|
|
|
Post by coachdubyah on Feb 1, 2023 17:53:35 GMT -6
If you’ve ever had a “great option Qb” he probably just guessed right half the time.
|
|
|
Post by somecoach on Feb 3, 2023 9:04:34 GMT -6
I always liked this answer by Belichick about this topic. There are various ways to do it. www.patriots.com/news/bill-belichick-press-conference-transcript-183406Q: You've talked about you guys being a game plan offense. Where was the idea of being a game plan offense born from for you? In terms of it being the right way to do it, compared to a team like the Steelers when Bill Cowher was there, that this what they do and you have to stop it? BB: I don't know, I guess I've always had that philosophy. You try to do what you think works best against that particular opponent certainly within the framework of what you're comfortable doing, whether that's offense, defense or special teams, it's all the same. [Former Head Coach] Wayne Hardin at Navy maybe, if you want to go back a ways; Detroit, the Giants. I don't know. Q: Would you agree with the thought that it's an ambitious thing to try to do because you have to be able to execute in all areas, as opposed to majoring in one thing? BB: I'll just give you this example. When I was in high school at Annapolis, I played for Al Laramore, who was Maryland Coach of the Year, a Hall of Fame high school coach in Delaware and all that. So, he's a pretty good coach. We won a lot of games, we won a ton of games and we ran four plays. We ran four plays: 22 Power, 24 Quick Trap, 28 Counter and Sprint Right and that was it. When we ran them to the other side, we just flipped formation. The whole line flipped and the play went the other way: 22 Power, 24 Quick Trap, 28 Counter and Sprint Left. That was the offense, that was the entire offense and we won a lot of games. Then the next year when I went to Andover and played for Coach [Steve] Sorota there, who again was a great player, great coach, played with [Vince] Lombardi at Fordham and was one of the most renowned coaches I'd say ever in New England prep school football or maybe high school football period for that matter. The quarterback called his own plays. They didn't send them in; they didn't tell him what to call. They got in the huddle and he may have asked for a suggestion from me or Ernie [Adams] or somebody, but he called whatever he wanted to call and that was the offense. So, that was about as opposite as you could get it from one year to the next year. We won just as many games. It was totally different, but both were very successful. So what's the right way to do it? What's the wrong way to do it? I don't know. Whatever works, whatever you believe in. But then it all has to line up that way. I got to Baltimore with Coach [Ted] Marchibroda, Bert Jones. Bert called all the plays. I want to say it was his second year in the league. He called all the plays. Call timeout, come over to the sideline, fourth-and-one, Burt would say, 'What do you want me to call?' Ted would say, 'We have 24 Hunch, we have 36 Bob, we have Play Pass 37 Y Flag, whatever you feel good about.' 'Alright.' Other players and coaches would come up and say, 'What are we going to run?' 'I don't know, it depends what Burt calls.' There are other teams, Coach [Ray] Perkins, Coach [Bill] Parcells, those guys, called every play. Not that we wouldn't audible to a play or something but he called every play. So, what's right and what's wrong? I don't know. It can all work. If you do it right and you have the other things – if you do it one way, you have to have other things that are in place to do that. There's a reason for doing it. There are also some drawbacks to doing it that way. When that happens, you have to have some way to counter it. That's the same way on defense. When I was with the Broncos and Joe Collier, there were game plans where we had 60 different fronts – fronts. It's hard to imagine 60 different fronts in a 3-4 defense really, but that what it was. It was 60 different alignments, which would include a linebacker that was blitzing so any one of the four linebackers were blitzing so that was part of it.
I got to the Giants when Bill [Parcells] came in, we put in a 3-4 there. We played one front with one adjustment. We reduced the end on the weak side from a four-technique to a three-technique and that's it. Then I'd say 95 percent of the snaps that we played from '81 to '90 that weren't nickel snaps; over 90 percent of them had to be either base or reduced front, maybe 95 percent. It might have been higher than that. Two good defenses: the Orange Crush, the Broncos defense, that was a great defense. The Giants defense, that was a great defense. The same 3-4, two totally different philosophies. So what's the right way to do it? Both work.When BB finally hangs it up we should pool our money together and get BB to do a private clinic. The creating of a flexible system, a 4 play offense, HS QB audibles, and the "Bill Parcells 2 gap 3-4", all perfectly explained in a 5 minute clip. I could only imagine what he would say if asked what he would run at the HS level.
|
|
|
Post by somecoach on Feb 3, 2023 9:06:56 GMT -6
If you’ve ever had a “great option Qb” he probably just guessed right half the time. And was athletic enough to out run the qb player. When the powerhouses used to run triple in my league it was TERRIFYING watching their qb fake the pitch and juke out our qb player... or simply run him over.
|
|
|
Post by coachdubyah on Feb 3, 2023 22:29:06 GMT -6
I always liked this answer by Belichick about this topic. There are various ways to do it. www.patriots.com/news/bill-belichick-press-conference-transcript-183406Q: You've talked about you guys being a game plan offense. Where was the idea of being a game plan offense born from for you? In terms of it being the right way to do it, compared to a team like the Steelers when Bill Cowher was there, that this what they do and you have to stop it? BB: I don't know, I guess I've always had that philosophy. You try to do what you think works best against that particular opponent certainly within the framework of what you're comfortable doing, whether that's offense, defense or special teams, it's all the same. [Former Head Coach] Wayne Hardin at Navy maybe, if you want to go back a ways; Detroit, the Giants. I don't know. Q: Would you agree with the thought that it's an ambitious thing to try to do because you have to be able to execute in all areas, as opposed to majoring in one thing? BB: I'll just give you this example. When I was in high school at Annapolis, I played for Al Laramore, who was Maryland Coach of the Year, a Hall of Fame high school coach in Delaware and all that. So, he's a pretty good coach. We won a lot of games, we won a ton of games and we ran four plays. We ran four plays: 22 Power, 24 Quick Trap, 28 Counter and Sprint Right and that was it. When we ran them to the other side, we just flipped formation. The whole line flipped and the play went the other way: 22 Power, 24 Quick Trap, 28 Counter and Sprint Left. That was the offense, that was the entire offense and we won a lot of games. Then the next year when I went to Andover and played for Coach [Steve] Sorota there, who again was a great player, great coach, played with [Vince] Lombardi at Fordham and was one of the most renowned coaches I'd say ever in New England prep school football or maybe high school football period for that matter. The quarterback called his own plays. They didn't send them in; they didn't tell him what to call. They got in the huddle and he may have asked for a suggestion from me or Ernie [Adams] or somebody, but he called whatever he wanted to call and that was the offense. So, that was about as opposite as you could get it from one year to the next year. We won just as many games. It was totally different, but both were very successful. So what's the right way to do it? What's the wrong way to do it? I don't know. Whatever works, whatever you believe in. But then it all has to line up that way. I got to Baltimore with Coach [Ted] Marchibroda, Bert Jones. Bert called all the plays. I want to say it was his second year in the league. He called all the plays. Call timeout, come over to the sideline, fourth-and-one, Burt would say, 'What do you want me to call?' Ted would say, 'We have 24 Hunch, we have 36 Bob, we have Play Pass 37 Y Flag, whatever you feel good about.' 'Alright.' Other players and coaches would come up and say, 'What are we going to run?' 'I don't know, it depends what Burt calls.' There are other teams, Coach [Ray] Perkins, Coach [Bill] Parcells, those guys, called every play. Not that we wouldn't audible to a play or something but he called every play. So, what's right and what's wrong? I don't know. It can all work. If you do it right and you have the other things – if you do it one way, you have to have other things that are in place to do that. There's a reason for doing it. There are also some drawbacks to doing it that way. When that happens, you have to have some way to counter it. That's the same way on defense. When I was with the Broncos and Joe Collier, there were game plans where we had 60 different fronts – fronts. It's hard to imagine 60 different fronts in a 3-4 defense really, but that what it was. It was 60 different alignments, which would include a linebacker that was blitzing so any one of the four linebackers were blitzing so that was part of it.
I got to the Giants when Bill [Parcells] came in, we put in a 3-4 there. We played one front with one adjustment. We reduced the end on the weak side from a four-technique to a three-technique and that's it. Then I'd say 95 percent of the snaps that we played from '81 to '90 that weren't nickel snaps; over 90 percent of them had to be either base or reduced front, maybe 95 percent. It might have been higher than that. Two good defenses: the Orange Crush, the Broncos defense, that was a great defense. The Giants defense, that was a great defense. The same 3-4, two totally different philosophies. So what's the right way to do it? Both work.When BB finally hangs it up we should pool our money together and get BB to do a private clinic. The creating of a flexible system, a 4 play offense, HS QB audibles, and the "Bill Parcells 2 gap 3-4", all perfectly explained in a 5 minute clip. I could only imagine what he would say if asked what he would run at the HS level. The answer to this question from most pro coaches would surprise you.
|
|
|
Post by tripsclosed on Feb 3, 2023 23:51:27 GMT -6
When BB finally hangs it up we should pool our money together and get BB to do a private clinic. The creating of a flexible system, a 4 play offense, HS QB audibles, and the "Bill Parcells 2 gap 3-4", all perfectly explained in a 5 minute clip. I could only imagine what he would say if asked what he would run at the HS level. The answer to this question from most pro coaches would surprise you. The answer being that they would greatly simplify if they were at the HS level? Like Kirby Smart saying he believes living in Cover 3 is the best answer for [most anyways] coaches at the HS level?
|
|
|
Post by somecoach on Feb 5, 2023 20:37:41 GMT -6
The answer to this question from most pro coaches would surprise you. The answer being that they would greatly simplify if they were at the HS level? Like Kirby Smart saying he believes living in Cover 3 is the best answer for [most anyways] coaches at the HS level? hey coach do you by chance have the link to this? For most situations I don't disagree with him tbh
|
|
|
Post by mattharris75 on Feb 5, 2023 21:04:53 GMT -6
The answer being that they would greatly simplify if they were at the HS level? Like Kirby Smart saying he believes living in Cover 3 is the best answer for [most anyways] coaches at the HS level? hey coach do you by chance have the link to this? For most situations I don't disagree with him tbh If you ever hear him speak at a conference you can tell he's oddly enthusiastic about C3. Just a few weeks ago, at the Alabama HS football coaches convention, he spent a good half of his time talking about it (interspersed with a rather ridiculous number of F bombs...).
|
|
|
Post by larrymoe on Feb 5, 2023 21:32:47 GMT -6
hey coach do you by chance have the link to this? For most situations I don't disagree with him tbh If you ever hear him speak at a conference you can tell he's oddly enthusiastic about C3. Just a few weeks ago, at the Alabama HS football coaches convention, he spent a good half of his time talking about it (interspersed with a rather ridiculous number of F bombs...). Don't let his wife find out about the F bombs. It'll make her mad.
|
|