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Post by sweep26 on Aug 15, 2022 10:50:20 GMT -6
Much has been written about Coach Markham's DTDW offense that established a new national scoring record when he was coaching at Bloomington H.S. (CA)...however, I have never read anything about the methodology that he used to change the "defeatist" mindset of the high school teams that he took over in both California and Oregon.
I am wondering...are there are any coaches out there that assisted Coach Markham in any of his rebuilding projects that would be willing to share their thoughts and knowledge regarding this topic?
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Post by coachdubyah on Aug 16, 2022 21:27:51 GMT -6
Much has been written about Coach Markham's DTDW offense that established a new national scoring record when he was coaching at Bloomington H.S. (CA)...however, I have never read anything about the methodology that he used to change the "defeatist" mindset of the high school teams that he took over in both California and Oregon. I am wondering...are there are any coaches out there that assisted Coach Markham in any of his rebuilding projects that would be willing to share their thoughts and knowledge regarding this topic? I don’t know if this answers your question really but I do know he eliminated stuff like “pre game” routine, very little Indo, they ran Team situations ALOT in practice. I have a dvd from him and it’s really good for anyone that has low numbers….
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Post by CS on Aug 17, 2022 4:05:47 GMT -6
Much has been written about Coach Markham's DTDW offense that established a new national scoring record when he was coaching at Bloomington H.S. (CA)...however, I have never read anything about the methodology that he used to change the "defeatist" mindset of the high school teams that he took over in both California and Oregon. I am wondering...are there are any coaches out there that assisted Coach Markham in any of his rebuilding projects that would be willing to share their thoughts and knowledge regarding this topic? Don’t know a ton about him but when you have fewer plays, window dressings and focus on execution of your assignments kids magically start playing faster and more aggressive. Imagine that
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Post by tripsclosed on Aug 17, 2022 7:25:34 GMT -6
Much has been written about Coach Markham's DTDW offense that established a new national scoring record when he was coaching at Bloomington H.S. (CA)...however, I have never read anything about the methodology that he used to change the "defeatist" mindset of the high school teams that he took over in both California and Oregon. I am wondering...are there are any coaches out there that assisted Coach Markham in any of his rebuilding projects that would be willing to share their thoughts and knowledge regarding this topic? Don’t know a ton about him but when you have fewer plays, window dressings and focus on execution of your assignments kids magically start playing faster and more aggressive. Imagine that Yeah that MIGHT have helped. 😁
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Post by NC1974 on Aug 17, 2022 8:46:57 GMT -6
Much has been written about Coach Markham's DTDW offense that established a new national scoring record when he was coaching at Bloomington H.S. (CA)...however, I have never read anything about the methodology that he used to change the "defeatist" mindset of the high school teams that he took over in both California and Oregon. I am wondering...are there are any coaches out there that assisted Coach Markham in any of his rebuilding projects that would be willing to share their thoughts and knowledge regarding this topic? I don’t know if this answers your question really but I do know he eliminated stuff like “pre game” routine, very little Indo, they ran Team situations ALOT in practice. I have a dvd from him and it’s really good for anyone that has low numbers…. Coach, What is the name/producer of the DVD? Thx!
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Post by coachdubyah on Aug 17, 2022 20:15:04 GMT -6
I don’t know if this answers your question really but I do know he eliminated stuff like “pre game” routine, very little Indo, they ran Team situations ALOT in practice. I have a dvd from him and it’s really good for anyone that has low numbers…. Coach, What is the name/producer of the DVD? Thx! Back in the Coronapocalypse I found it. I think Rick Stewart (Pistol Wing T guy) published it, but the site is down….at least the last time I checked it was.
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Post by tripsclosed on Aug 17, 2022 21:15:51 GMT -6
Coach, What is the name/producer of the DVD? Thx! Back in the Coronapocalypse I found it. I think Rick Stewart (Pistol Wing T guy) published it, but the site is down….at least the last time I checked it was. it took me a moment to get what you were referring to with coronapocalypse 😄😄 Yeah bro the internet coaching community is steadily drifting into extinction, about the only thing left is this place and its old faithfuls (both middle age and geriatric 😄), YouTube, Coaches Choice, Glazier, and... it pains me to even say it.........Fkn Tw@tter. Lol I will never ever ever ever never forgive twitter for what it has done to this great site.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 18, 2022 6:26:25 GMT -6
Back in the Coronapocalypse I found it. I think Rick Stewart (Pistol Wing T guy) published it, but the site is down….at least the last time I checked it was. it took me a moment to get what you were referring to with coronapocalypse 😄😄 Yeah bro the internet coaching community is steadily drifting into extinction, about the only thing left is this place and its old faithfuls (both middle age and geriatric 😄), YouTube, Coaches Choice, Glazier, and... it pains me to even say it.........Fkn Tw@tter. Lol I will never ever ever ever never forgive twitter for what it has done to this great site. I'll never forgive it and its' social media brethren for what it's done to our society, but I digress.
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Post by tog on Aug 18, 2022 7:14:07 GMT -6
Back in the Coronapocalypse I found it. I think Rick Stewart (Pistol Wing T guy) published it, but the site is down….at least the last time I checked it was. it took me a moment to get what you were referring to with coronapocalypse 😄😄 Yeah bro the internet coaching community is steadily drifting into extinction, about the only thing left is this place and its old faithfuls (both middle age and geriatric 😄), YouTube, Coaches Choice, Glazier, and... it pains me to even say it.........Fkn Tw@tter. Lol I will never ever ever ever never forgive twitter for what it has done to this great site. who you calling geriatric? lol
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Post by tripsclosed on Aug 18, 2022 7:24:09 GMT -6
it took me a moment to get what you were referring to with coronapocalypse 😄😄 Yeah bro the internet coaching community is steadily drifting into extinction, about the only thing left is this place and its old faithfuls (both middle age and geriatric 😄), YouTube, Coaches Choice, Glazier, and... it pains me to even say it.........Fkn Tw@tter. Lol I will never ever ever ever never forgive twitter for what it has done to this great site. who you calling geriatric? lol Lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2022 9:49:40 GMT -6
Much has been written about Coach Markham's DTDW offense that established a new national scoring record when he was coaching at Bloomington H.S. (CA)...however, I have never read anything about the methodology that he used to change the "defeatist" mindset of the high school teams that he took over in both California and Oregon. I am wondering...are there are any coaches out there that assisted Coach Markham in any of his rebuilding projects that would be willing to share their thoughts and knowledge regarding this topic? Don’t know a ton about him but when you have fewer plays, window dressings and focus on execution of your assignments kids magically start playing faster and more aggressive. Imagine that So much about Markham is either mysterious or a myth. You hear stories, but there's not much way of knowing what's true or what's not. I hope some people who worked with the man or at least knew him can chime in, because this has potential to be a great thread. I've heard people say that he didn't even care about lifting due to all the double teams. Then I've heard other stories that he stressed it so much he would feed kids peanut butter sandwiches laced with creatine. I am pretty sure that he spent most of his practices in Team like a lot of old-fashioned coaches did when they were lucky to have more than one or two assistants. I think a big part of his "worst to first" success might have come from going to places where blocking was taught poorly and just teaching kids a way to do it that worked without requiring a bunch of finely tuned techniques. It's surprising how just teaching kids competent blocking and not turning the ball over can dramatically improve your chance of winning. The first part of becoming a winner, IME, is to stop beating yourself. As far as his "culture building" stuff, I would love to hear about this.
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Post by sweep26 on Aug 19, 2022 10:32:53 GMT -6
There is a coach that has a video on YouTube by the name of Roger VanDeZande that has a (sample) presentation titled: "Turning It Around with the Double Wing Offense".
This coach claims that he coached with Don Markham in Oregon and learned the system directly from Coach Markham
At the time that he did this video, he was coaching at Fayette High School in Missouri. I attempted to reach out to the A.D. at that high school to find out where Coach VanDeZande may be coaching now...no response from that A.D.
If anyone knows of Coach VanDeZande's current location is please post...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2022 12:12:23 GMT -6
There is a coach that has a video on YouTube by the name of Roger VanDeZande that has a (sample) presentation titled: "Turning It Around with the Double Wing Offense". This coach claims that he coached with Don Markham in Oregon and learned the system directly from Coach Markham At the time that he did this video, he was coaching at Fayette High School in Missouri. I attempted to reach out to the A.D. at that high school to find out where Coach VanDeZande may be coaching now...no response from that A.D. If anyone knows of Coach VanDeZande's current location is please post... There's this article from 2021 that references a coach by that name retiring from coaching and teaching at Russellville, Missouri to take a job as an academic advisor at William Woods university. Some Google searches confirmed this is the same man who coached at Fayette High School before leaving to take over as HC at Russellville, who then retired after the 2020 season. news.williamwoods.edu/new-staffers-in-academic-services-using-extensive-sports-backgrounds-to-help-students/The William Woods University staff directory lists an office phone number for him, but no email. www.williamwoods.edu/faculty_and_staff/faculty_staff_directory/department.aspx?DepartmentID=38
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Post by 3rdandlong on Aug 19, 2022 13:16:28 GMT -6
I met him many years ago. He was sitting outside the weightroom, shirtless, drawing up his famous Markham toss over and over again on a paper. Kids were in the weightroom lifting pretty hard, but also goofing off pretty hard too... He didn't care for a lot of the conventional stuff such as rigid practice plans. Pre-game warm ups were intentionally insignificant. Everyone would catch passes-including linemen- and throw balls (even though they never threw the ball).
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 19, 2022 15:17:14 GMT -6
Is Don Markham the guy who had the "It takes a set" shirts and videos and stuff in the mid-late 90s?
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Post by silkyice on Aug 19, 2022 23:19:48 GMT -6
Is Don Markham the guy who had the "It takes a set" shirts and videos and stuff in the mid-late 90s? No. That is Hugh Wyatt.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2022 7:11:43 GMT -6
Is Don Markham the guy who had the "It takes a set" shirts and videos and stuff in the mid-late 90s? Yeah, that was Hugh Wyatt. Markham invented the DW and set records with it before the rest of the world caught on, but he never really marketed himself like the DW “gurus” that came after him and copied his ideas. Hugh Wyatt got the DW from coaching against Markham (and getting destroyed), then reverse-engineered the offense from Markham’s film to get his own version, which was still a little different. It was Wyatt who started marketing the hell out of materials and clinics to sell the DW offense, becoming the first “guru.” Markham eventually put out some tapes he sold himself and those are hard to find. I’ve never seen them.
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Post by sweep26 on Aug 20, 2022 8:36:11 GMT -6
I have a VHS Tape of the "one-man clinic" that Coach Markham did in a classroom full of coaches (I am guessing it was at Bloomington H.S.(CA)).
IMO...it was outstanding. No BS, just honest/straight forward football talk.
Unfortunately, I no longer have access to equipment to convert this tape to DVD...otherwise, I would be willing to share this with others.
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Post by silkyice on Aug 20, 2022 9:28:32 GMT -6
I have a VHS Tape of the "one-man clinic" that Coach Markham did in a classroom full of coaches (I am guessing it was at Bloomington H.S.(CA)). IMO...it was outstanding. No BS, just honest/straight forward football talk. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to equipment to convert this tape to DVD...otherwise, I would be willing to share this with others. I think I have/had the same VHS. No idea where it is. One thing that stuck out to me if I recall correctly, is that everything was blocked front specific and not rules. Meaning they block a 4-4 one way, a 5-2 this way, etc.
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Post by 33coach on Aug 20, 2022 14:57:45 GMT -6
I have a VHS Tape of the "one-man clinic" that Coach Markham did in a classroom full of coaches (I am guessing it was at Bloomington H.S.(CA)). IMO...it was outstanding. No BS, just honest/straight forward football talk. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to equipment to convert this tape to DVD...otherwise, I would be willing to share this with others. I think I have/had the same VHS. No idea where it is. One thing that stuck out to me if I recall correctly, is that everything was blocked front specific and not rules. Meaning they block a 4-4 one way, a 5-2 this way, etc. yep ident the front then set the blocks based on that front, it was revolutionary for the wing'd offenses where rules blocking has traditionally been the answer to everything.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2022 16:04:42 GMT -6
I think I have/had the same VHS. No idea where it is. One thing that stuck out to me if I recall correctly, is that everything was blocked front specific and not rules. Meaning they block a 4-4 one way, a 5-2 this way, etc. yep ident the front then set the blocks based on that front, it was revolutionary for the wing'd offenses where rules blocking has traditionally been the answer to everything. This fits what I’d heard about him. A lot of old school coaches in the 60s and 70s had this approach in other offenses. Emory Bellard did it in the wishbone. I think it may have originally been an NFL innovation, but I’m not sure. The only issue was that each play then became more like 4-6 plays to teach and learn, depending on how you went about classifying fronts. Since Markham, like the DW coaches who followed, only ran a handful of plays this wasn’t that big a deal. I guess if you think about it, this really isn’t any different from teaching a bunch of different tags or auto line calls on Power, Veer, or Zone. It was serving the same purpose and probably didn’t change most of the assignments.
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Post by carookie on Aug 20, 2022 20:40:37 GMT -6
Don’t know a ton about him but when you have fewer plays, window dressings and focus on execution of your assignments kids magically start playing faster and more aggressive. Imagine that So much about Markham is either mysterious or a myth. You hear stories, but there's not much way of knowing what's true or what's not. I hope some people who worked with the man or at least knew him can chime in, because this has potential to be a great thread. I've heard people say that he didn't even care about lifting due to all the double teams. Then I've heard other stories that he stressed it so much he would feed kids peanut butter sandwiches laced with creatine. I am pretty sure that he spent most of his practices in Team like a lot of old-fashioned coaches did when they were lucky to have more than one or two assistants. I think a big part of his "worst to first" success might have come from going to places where blocking was taught poorly and just teaching kids a way to do it that worked without requiring a bunch of finely tuned techniques. It's surprising how just teaching kids competent blocking and not turning the ball over can dramatically improve your chance of winning. The first part of becoming a winner, IME, is to stop beating yourself. As far as his "culture building" stuff, I would love to hear about this. I never met the man, but I played against Bloomington when I was in HS; and I have worked with a number of coaches who knew him and coached against him. I couldnt tell you anything about 'culture' per-se, but a few crazy stories that fit in with what one would expect from a guy coaching in a blue collar community in the 80s and 90s. I will say this about their team my senior year, who ended up winning CIF: they had good athletes in skill positions. Maybe not D1 types, but definitely D2 caliber.
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Post by sweep26 on Aug 23, 2022 8:25:19 GMT -6
Much has been written about Coach Markham's DTDW offense that established a new national scoring record when he was coaching at Bloomington H.S. (CA)...however, I have never read anything about the methodology that he used to change the "defeatist" mindset of the high school teams that he took over in both California and Oregon. I am wondering...are there are any coaches out there that assisted Coach Markham in any of his rebuilding projects that would be willing to share their thoughts and knowledge regarding this topic? Don’t know a ton about him but when you have fewer plays, window dressings and focus on execution of your assignments kids magically start playing faster and more aggressive. Imagine that This is a great point of view, and leads to yet another question...what comes first competence or confidence? Some say that without an initial spark of confidence, there wouldn't be sufficient energy, drive, motivation to develop any competence. Or as you say...that mastering those few DTDW plays that Markham presented was what developed his team's confidence to succeed.
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Post by CS on Aug 23, 2022 10:27:19 GMT -6
Don’t know a ton about him but when you have fewer plays, window dressings and focus on execution of your assignments kids magically start playing faster and more aggressive. Imagine that This is a great point of view, and leads to yet another question...what comes first competence or confidence? Some say that without an initial spark of confidence, there wouldn't be sufficient energy, drive, motivation to develop any competence. Or as you say...that mastering those few DTDW plays that Markham presented was what developed his team's confidence to succeed. Havnt seen a kid who didn’t know what to do be very confident
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Post by sweep26 on Aug 23, 2022 10:56:51 GMT -6
This is a great point of view, and leads to yet another question...what comes first competence or confidence? Some say that without an initial spark of confidence, there wouldn't be sufficient energy, drive, motivation to develop any competence. Or as you say...that mastering those few DTDW plays that Markham presented was what developed his team's confidence to succeed. Havnt seen a kid who didn’t know what to do be very confident This may be true. However, if he didn't have at least a spark of self-confidence to begin with, I doubt that he would even be attempting to succeed in the task at hand. I will concur that as one's competence grows...so does his confidence. I am sure that this debate of which comes first has been an ongoing one for quite some time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2022 11:25:24 GMT -6
Havnt seen a kid who didn’t know what to do be very confident This may be true. However, if he didn't have at least a spark of self-confidence to begin with, I doubt that he would even be attempting to succeed in the task at hand. I will concur that as one's competence grows...so does his confidence. I am sure that this debate of which comes first has been an ongoing one for quite some time. I've seen some psychological research on this. The consensus seems to be that in order to get either, you need experience (aka practice) to build those qualities. The old aphorism is that the bad thing about experience is that you don't get it until after you need it. Once that starts to happen, confidence seems to increase faster than competence at first (Dunning-Krueger Effect), where someone with minimal competence becomes overconfident because they think they know what to do, but don't know enough to know what they're doing wrong. You will see that stage referred to as "Mount Stupid" when it's graphed as this huge spike of high confidence above low actual competence. Once the overconfident, but incompetent, person is confronted with irrefutable proof of their incompetence (like obvious failure), their confidence falls dramatically once the person realizes this... but *if* they continue to practice they build competence, which brings the confidence back up over time... until eventually when someone is highly competent their own confidence actually lags a bit behind their skills because they are acutely aware of imperfections and mistakes. Some people, of course, manage to somehow be incompetent but avoid the consequences of this for a time. These people tend to rise in rank despite their skills having holes or problems in it, where the Peter Principle comes into play.
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Post by silkyice on Aug 23, 2022 11:45:17 GMT -6
This may be true. However, if he didn't have at least a spark of self-confidence to begin with, I doubt that he would even be attempting to succeed in the task at hand. I will concur that as one's competence grows...so does his confidence. I am sure that this debate of which comes first has been an ongoing one for quite some time. I've seen some psychological research on this. The consensus seems to be that in order to get either, you need experience (aka practice) to build those qualities. The old aphorism is that the bad thing about experience is that you don't get it until after you need it. Once that starts to happen, confidence seems to increase faster than competence at first (Dunning-Krueger Effect), where someone with minimal competence becomes overconfident because they think they know what to do, but don't know enough to know what they're doing wrong. You will see that stage referred to as "Mount Stupid" when it's graphed as this huge spike of high confidence above low actual competence. Once the overconfident, but incompetent, person is confronted with irrefutable proof of their incompetence (like obvious failure), their confidence falls dramatically once the person realizes this... but *if* they continue to practice they build competence, which brings the confidence back up over time... until eventually when someone is highly competent their own confidence actually lags a bit behind their skills because they are acutely aware of imperfections and mistakes. Some people, of course, manage to somehow be incompetent but avoid the consequences of this for a time. These people tend to rise in rank despite their skills having holes or problems in it, where the Peter Principle comes into play. Wow that was a lot and actually super surprised I followed all of it. Probably just overconfident.
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rocky34
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Post by rocky34 on Aug 24, 2022 21:14:00 GMT -6
I played for coach Markham in Bandon in the late 90s… we walked everywhere, ran all team O and D during practice …I can remember running 36 pitch at least 30 times until it was perfect ! no pregame … would go out on the field before game throw the ball around and get loose , run some plays then go back into the locker room and have a little pep talk …then take the field and play football! Always had team dinners cooked by Linda (his wife ) at his ranch along with a study hall if you needed it and film session . Markham was huge on weightlifting! We lifted all summer and ran sprints .. as far as The peanut butter sandwich laced with creatine …not exactly true … they were peanut butter and honey on wheat bread, his wife would hand us two sandwiches as we walked in and there was a shaker with creatine we were asked if we wanted creatine on our sandwiches. Of course none of us said no….lol.
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rocky34
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Post by rocky34 on Aug 24, 2022 21:23:46 GMT -6
There is a coach that has a video on YouTube by the name of Roger VanDeZande that has a (sample) presentation titled: "Turning It Around with the Double Wing Offense". This coach claims that he coached with Don Markham in Oregon and learned the system directly from Coach Markham At the time that he did this video, he was coaching at Fayette High School in Missouri. I attempted to reach out to the A.D. at that high school to find out where Coach VanDeZande may be coaching now...no response from that A.D. If anyone knows of Coach VanDeZande's current location is please post... There's this article from 2021 that references a coach by that name retiring from coaching and teaching at Russellville, Missouri to take a job as an academic advisor at William Woods university. Some Google searches confirmed this is the same man who coached at Fayette High School before leaving to take over as HC at Russellville, who then retired after the 2020 season. news.williamwoods.edu/new-staffers-in-academic-services-using-extensive-sports-backgrounds-to-help-students/The William Woods University staff directory lists an office phone number for him, but no email. www.williamwoods.edu/faculty_and_staff/faculty_staff_directory/department.aspx?DepartmentID=38
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rocky34
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Post by rocky34 on Aug 24, 2022 21:25:45 GMT -6
I met him many years ago. He was sitting outside the weightroom, shirtless, drawing up his famous Markham toss over and over again on a paper. Kids were in the weightroom lifting pretty hard, but also goofing off pretty hard too... He didn't care for a lot of the conventional stuff such as rigid practice plans. Pre-game warm ups were intentionally insignificant. Everyone would catch passes-including linemen- and throw balls (even though they never threw the ball).
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