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Post by hlb2 on Jul 14, 2022 11:13:46 GMT -6
Coaches,
I am coaching a team this season that has to be one of the slowest starting teams I've ever been around. They are a fairly talented bunch, compared to who we play, but play timid in the beginning of games, then rally like crazy to try and come back. The main issue is, we are not built to come from behind. This team is built to get the lead and milk the clock (lot's of OL/DL and very little skill guys on the roster). They play hard and physical, only once they've settled into the flow of the game though. If you have ever dealt with this, and corrected it, what did it take? Are there any good resources out there for getting players to start competition at their highest level? I'm all ears! Thanks in advance.
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Post by kylem56 on Jul 14, 2022 18:20:05 GMT -6
I would take a look at your practice plans. Are you starting off with something high tempo or slowly easing into practice? Add something competitive and intense right off the bat to start your practices, be selective with the times you slow down and teach.
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Post by carookie on Jul 14, 2022 21:00:55 GMT -6
Coaches, I am coaching a team this season that has to be one of the slowest starting teams I've ever been around. They are a fairly talented bunch, compared to who we play, but play timid in the beginning of games, then rally like crazy to try and come back. The main issue is, we are not built to come from behind. This team is built to get the lead and milk the clock (lot's of OL/DL and very little skill guys on the roster). They play hard and physical, only once they've settled into the flow of the game though. If you have ever dealt with this, and corrected it, what did it take? Are there any good resources out there for getting players to start competition at their highest level? I'm all ears! Thanks in advance. To me, this reads like they lack competitiveness, and may not have an alpha or two out there who needs to win at all cost. They compete/rally like crazy and try at the end because there is no real pressure to win. Its the same with kids who don't like being favored or the favorite, they don't deal well with the pressure to win. This doesn't mean they wont work hard, try hard, or want to win. Its just that they don't have that competitiveness to deal with the expectation of winning, so it comes off as being timid at the start of games. Does this sound somewhat familiar (I could be way off)? Are there do anything to win, cut your heart out types? Are they your leaders/best players? I've coached many great athletes, who were great people, but didn't want the pressure of being favorite, being in the lead-- they could perform the same. Its easier being the underdog and trying to make a comeback for some people. |
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Post by CS on Jul 15, 2022 4:48:45 GMT -6
I read about your predicament in a book once. It was a basketball team but the scenario is pretty much identical. That coach found that having a scrimmage before the game instead of their traditional warm up got them going.
I’m not suggesting you do the same thing but look into what you do pregame. Maybe come out later, warm up, and then go right into the game
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Post by silkyice on Jul 15, 2022 5:07:07 GMT -6
Not trying to be argumentative, but how do you know this? It is July.
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Post by sweep26 on Jul 15, 2022 12:14:55 GMT -6
There is an old saying: "What you tolerate, you encourage!" If you tolerate a half baked effort in practice, that's probably what you are going to get on game day. If you want your guys to play faster during games, they must be required to play fast in practice. I believe that sports psychologists refer to this as "Deliberate Practice"...don't just practice for the sake of practice...practice the way that you expect them to play on game day. On the coachhuey.com/thread/90561/slot-peanut-play thread, ccscoach posted a YouTube video "Practice Planning in the Slot-T"...the coach that presents on that video emphasizes that their kids are required to run all of their plays at "Game Speed" during practice...this is an example of "Deliberate Practice". |
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Post by hlb2 on Jul 15, 2022 12:30:11 GMT -6
Not trying to be argumentative, but how do you know this? It is July. We've been doing a lot of 7 on 7 this summer and we started this way in our spring game, that we won, but started slow nonetheless. |
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Post by hlb2 on Jul 15, 2022 12:33:10 GMT -6
There is an old saying: "What you tolerate, you encourage!" If you tolerate a half baked effort in practice, that's probably what you are going to get on game day. If you want your guys to play faster during games, they must be required to play fast in practice. I believe that sports psychologists refer to this as "Deliberate Practice"...don't just practice for the sake of practice...practice the way that you expect them to play on game day. On the coachhuey.com/thread/90561/slot-peanut-play thread, ccscoach posted a YouTube video "Practice Planning in the Slot-T"...the coach that presents on that video emphasizes that their kids are required to run all of their plays at "Game Speed" during practice...this is an example of "Deliberate Practice". I don't think I said they were giving "half baked effort". What I did say was they start slow, which was to mean, uptight and tense, stiff. It takes them a few series to settle in and get after it. In our summer 7 on 7 stuff we will often go down by 2 or 3 TD's and rally to tie, or win, but the margin for victory playing by that model is very, very slim. We demand maximum effort in practice, we do not jump right into competition though, so that is one area we will look to improve. |
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Post by blb on Jul 15, 2022 13:41:00 GMT -6
There is an old saying: "What you tolerate, you encourage!" If you tolerate a half baked effort in practice, that's probably what you are going to get on game day. If you want your guys to play faster during games, they must be required to play fast in practice. I believe that sports psychologists refer to this as "Deliberate Practice"...don't just practice for the sake of practice...practice the way that you expect them to play on game day. On the coachhuey.com/thread/90561/slot-peanut-play thread, ccscoach posted a YouTube video "Practice Planning in the Slot-T"...the coach that presents on that video emphasizes that their kids are required to run all of their plays at "Game Speed" during practice...this is an example of "Deliberate Practice". I don't think I said they were giving "half baked effort". What I did say was they start slow, which was to mean, uptight and tense, stiff. It takes them a few series to settle in and get after it. In our summer 7 on 7 stuff we will often go down by 2 or 3 TD's and rally to tie, or win, but the margin for victory playing by that model is very, very slim. We demand maximum effort in practice, we do not jump right into competition though, so that is one area we will look to improve. 7-on-7 is not "real" football. Wouldn't evaluate your team by that. I will say this - early in my HC career I thought I should give big "pep talks" before games. Unfortunately what I found out was I didn't have the "big finish" and often seemed to make kids uptight. So I stopped doing that, in fact I stayed away as much as I could during Pre-Game, just let them go through it at their own pace. Seemed to make a difference. |
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Post by coachcb on Jul 16, 2022 8:12:38 GMT -6
Two minute, goal line drills and everything in between. Even informal bits of competitive pressure go a long way.
"First group killed that rep, second group: do it better!"
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Post by 60zgo on Jul 16, 2022 8:33:09 GMT -6
What does the day before the game look like? Is it a walk thru? Downtempo type day? Some teams struggle going Low to High.
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Post by blackknight on Jul 18, 2022 19:51:50 GMT -6
We had the same issue at the school I was the HC at for 23 years. What fixed the problem was when we went away from walk through the day before the game and went full pads and ended the practice with half line 1's vs. 1's.
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Post by hlb2 on Jul 19, 2022 11:46:33 GMT -6
What does the day before the game look like? Is it a walk thru? Downtempo type day? Some teams struggle going Low to High. Yes, it's a walk through. Wednesday for us is a full game mock scrimmage day with alternating special teams (as game-like as possible). Then Thursday is film of that session plus a walk through correcting any mistakes and going over special teams and special situations. |
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Post by 60zgo on Jul 20, 2022 10:47:55 GMT -6
What does the day before the game look like? Is it a walk thru? Downtempo type day? Some teams struggle going Low to High. Yes, it's a walk through. Wednesday for us is a full game mock scrimmage day with alternating special teams (as game-like as possible). Then Thursday is film of that session plus a walk through correcting any mistakes and going over special teams and special situations. You may experiment with flipping the two. Install/Film M&T and walk/correct/film Wednesday. Bring the intensity up Thursday. We have had success with that. I also believe every team is different. Every year is different. The year itself may change based on injuries. You need to ask "Why?" over and over until you find a plan that fits this year's kids. |
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Post by raider92 on Jul 20, 2022 22:42:51 GMT -6
A few college programs (probably more than a few but I know of a few for sure) will do some Olympic lifts on gameday or even right before they go take the field for warm-ups. The idea being it gets the central nervous system firing.
The problem with most "warm ups" is the kids dont actually get warm. We feel the same about contact. A boxer gets into a full sweaty lather before he goes out to fight. We feel the same way about our players, the first time they get hit should be in warm ups not in the game. Maybe try some Oly lifts and some good physical drill work in pre-game. We do full on live tackling and board drills in warm ups. We also start practice like this as well.
Similarly, many of the basketball coaches I know who have gotten on board with gameday lifting report their teams getting off to way better starts.
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Post by flballcoach on Jul 21, 2022 7:27:07 GMT -6
We have had this problem in the past and a friend suggested we do oklahoma in the endzone before the game. I think it set the tone and the other teams had to be a bit intimidated even if they didn't show it. For that group it turned us around and we won district and went two rounds deep in 6A Florida football.
I would love some more info on the pre game lifts, what colleges do it? Any articles? My S and C coach might need some convincing.
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Post by carookie on Jul 21, 2022 11:39:24 GMT -6
We have had this problem in the past and a friend suggested we do oklahoma in the endzone before the game. I think it set the tone and the other teams had to be a bit intimidated even if they didn't show it. For that group it turned us around and we won district and went two rounds deep in 6A Florida football. I would love some more info on the pre game lifts, what colleges do it? Any articles? My S and C coach might need some convincing. This is one of those things that makes sense, but the moment you get a kid banged up doing it before the game it will be all heck for you. Ditto with lifting before hand. If you do something new and different that causes a slight hiccup the second guessers will be out in full force, even if it has been a benefit and mostly worked. Its like I say, don't fail doing something unique. |
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Post by raider92 on Jul 21, 2022 17:41:54 GMT -6
We have had this problem in the past and a friend suggested we do oklahoma in the endzone before the game. I think it set the tone and the other teams had to be a bit intimidated even if they didn't show it. For that group it turned us around and we won district and went two rounds deep in 6A Florida football. I would love some more info on the pre game lifts, what colleges do it? Any articles? My S and C coach might need some convincing. The best resource imo is Kevin Vanderbush. I believe he posts here. He was a big proponent of it when I spoke with him, maybe his philosophy has changed. To be clear we aren't going to have guys burning themselves out on max sets of squats. We do some lighter weight snatches and cleans etc., and fridays are an upper body lift day for us so our guys would get their upper body work in like normal that morning or during school. I'd definitely start by contacting Coach Vanderbush first if you're looking to convince your S&C coach, hes an outstanding resource. |
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Post by Defcord on Jul 21, 2022 20:49:46 GMT -6
We have had this problem in the past and a friend suggested we do oklahoma in the endzone before the game. I think it set the tone and the other teams had to be a bit intimidated even if they didn't show it. For that group it turned us around and we won district and went two rounds deep in 6A Florida football. I would love some more info on the pre game lifts, what colleges do it? Any articles? My S and C coach might need some convincing. The best resource imo is Kevin Vanderbush. I believe he posts here. He was a big proponent of it when I spoke with him, maybe his philosophy has changed. To be clear we aren't going to have guys burning themselves out on max sets of squats. We do some lighter weight snatches and cleans etc., and fridays are an upper body lift day for us so our guys would get their upper body work in like normal that morning or during school. I'd definitely start by contacting Coach Vanderbush first if you're looking to convince your S&C coach, hes an outstanding resource. I don’t know if he’s still around here but a few years back he sent me some of his program stuff and it was excellent. It is in-depth and well organized. Definitely a great resource! |
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