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Post by fantom on Apr 25, 2022 12:40:52 GMT -6
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Post by blb on Apr 25, 2022 13:03:52 GMT -6
I always believed there was no substitute for experience.
If you have talent you will be playing early enough to get experience.
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Post by chi5hi on Apr 25, 2022 13:13:45 GMT -6
Technicians vs. Athletes?
Athletes are born able to play and excel in any sport. They're the ones who are likely to say something like..."That's enough practice, coach...let's play the game!"
Most of the kids you get in H.S. are technicians. They have to be taught things, and then be made to practice them.
Two guys go in the end zone for a pass...one of them a defender, the other a receiver, one is a technician and the other is a pure athlete. Who is more likely to come down with the ball? The ATHLETE!
Now...can you fault the technician? The guy was there right where he was supposed to be. He just got out-jumped...or out-somethinged!
I suppose I would rather have experienced technicians who are right where they're supposed to be. Those guys don't quit.
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Post by fantom on Apr 25, 2022 13:17:22 GMT -6
Technicians vs. Athletes? Athletes are born able to play and excel in any sport. They're the ones who are likely to say something like..."That's enough practice, coach...let's play the game!" Most of the kids you get in H.S. are technicians. They have to be taught things, and then be made to practice them. Two guys go in the end zone for a pass...one of them a defender, the other a receiver, one is a technician and the other is a pure athlete. Who is more likely to come down with the ball? The ATHLETE! Now...can you fault the technician? The guy was there right where he was supposed to be. He just got out-jumped...or out-somethinged! I suppose I would rather have experienced technicians who are right where they're supposed to be. Those guys don't quit. But the athlete is more likely to bite on the post and get burned by a wheel run by a technician. |
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Post by carookie on Apr 25, 2022 13:43:44 GMT -6
I think there is a lot of ambiguity being used here. To what is extent is the athlete physically dominant over the technician? How much athletic ability does the team with experience have compared to the athlete.
These arguments here are vague enough that everyone is correct because you can always set it up in your favor.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 25, 2022 14:16:32 GMT -6
I'll take the experience for the sake of consistency. I haven't had many good experiences with inexperienced athletes; they'll make great plays but they'll also screw up big. I'd rather have the experienced grinder that's going to do the right things the majority of the time.
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Post by fantom on Apr 25, 2022 20:48:29 GMT -6
I think there is a lot of ambiguity being used here. To what is extent is the athlete physically dominant over the technician? How much athletic ability does the team with experience have compared to the athlete. These arguments here are vague enough that everyone is correct because you can always set it up in your favor. How's that different from any other hypothetical here? I think the question is: How much difference does it take to be willing to accept some mistakes? |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Apr 25, 2022 20:51:55 GMT -6
In general give me the experienced guy, I'll take the consistency that I assume comes with it over the variance that I assume comes with the talented guy.
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Post by carookie on Apr 25, 2022 21:12:48 GMT -6
I think there is a lot of ambiguity being used here. To what is extent is the athlete physically dominant over the technician? How much athletic ability does the team with experience have compared to the athlete. These arguments here are vague enough that everyone is correct because you can always set it up in your favor. How's that different from any other hypothetical here? I think the question is: How much difference does it take to be willing to accept some mistakes? Most other hypotheticals are less ambiguous. This one literally quoted a website writing "would you rather have a team full of talent or a team full of experience" There is no defining how much of "full" means and what is being sacrificed by the other variable to achieve "full" That can mean a lot- does full talent mean a team of D1 level athletes, while not full talent means median 7th grade level? That may seem ridiculous, but its actually a lot more close than other examples I thought of (ie Full Talent=Bama's roster). Its just far too ambiguous. As opposed to, say, "would you rather face a 4-3 or 3-4" in which we can easily just write talent levels are equal between both options, and there is far less ambiguity to this hypothetical. Save for discussion points which can easily be hammered out (where are there best players? etc). Now I am sure one could try to nitpick my example, but the fact is, it is far more focused and uses generally understood parameters than just "full talent". |
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Post by dubber on Apr 26, 2022 4:48:18 GMT -6
I feel like a lot of you have had the same experiences I’ve had where you get a special frosh or sophomore.
If you can mix him in with solid upperclassmen where we can be a role player, he can pop.
If he has to be the guy that young, you are in for a long season
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Post by bluedevil4 on Apr 26, 2022 6:12:26 GMT -6
Pretty much echoing the same thing. You love the technicians, especially the dedicated ones, but in the end, the athletes usually come out on top.
For the past three seasons, our team has had the same starting QB. They were only the starting QB because they knew the original HC's offense better than anyone (it was so complex and non-directional that none of us other coaches even understood it). They were the ultimate technician. Worked on every part of their game all the time. Even had a private QB coach this past summer. This year is new HC, new system, and we finally were able to allow others to compete for the starting QB position (last HC was...odd). Within our first day of practice, our "technician" QB slid all the way down to 3rd string due to their lack of mobility and arm strength. They picked up the new system before the other two, but it was obvious within the first day that they were not gonna be the starter. The original QB proclaimed about how hard they worked, and that their private QB coach got them throwing farther than ever (which is true), but they still couldn't hold a candle to the other two.
This is the first year we've actually been able to run go routes with our outside receivers, or have been able to throw even an simple out route on time. The last QB was so smart and technical, but their athleticism and mobility just didn't allow them to execute even the most basic functions of the position. The reality is this player was only a starting QB in the past, because they were the only one that could translate or communicate the last system to the rest of the team to where we could...barely...function. By function, I mean line up correctly and snap a ball without getting a penalty.
In those first three seasons, we averaged 0-1 offensive scores every game. Defense outscored the offense all three seasons. Now after two games into a new season with a new system and new QB, we're 2-0 for the first time ever, and we've scored 96 points where 90 of them have come from the offense (2pt conversions / we're not doing PAT's right now).
My long-winded way of saying in the end, it's the athletes.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Apr 26, 2022 7:13:39 GMT -6
Give me the DUDE...I'll coach him up.
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CoachSP
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212 
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Post by CoachSP on Apr 26, 2022 7:15:10 GMT -6
I think one question I ask myself with some of our "talent" is "How do I get him to think like a technician?".
Don't get me wrong, teams loaded with dudes typically come out on top. But it's figuring out how to get your dudes to be sound in their technique that can really make a difference.
"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" comes to mind.
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Post by blb on Apr 26, 2022 7:19:43 GMT -6
Had a junior class coming up to the varsity one year that had been very successful on both freshman and JV teams.
We were picked to win our league in Pre-Season coaches' poll (had been second previous year).
Unfortunately those talented juniors played like underclassmen at times and we lost couple of games we maybe shouldn't have.
The next season, with a year of varsity experience under their belts, they-we did indeed win the conference title when they were seniors.
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Post by larrymoe on Apr 26, 2022 7:24:04 GMT -6
I'll go with experience, just because every mega "talented" God given kid I've ever coached has been a mega pain in the ass to deal with.
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Post by coachcb on Apr 26, 2022 8:19:02 GMT -6
"Hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard" comes to mind. Yup. And, we've run into problems when "talent" does work hard. There are times with their athletic ability allow them to get away with playing a bit unsound. Anecdotal evidence is powerful; they got away with it one week and then it hurts them the next week.
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Post by bulldogsdc on Apr 26, 2022 9:23:40 GMT -6
Pretty much echoing the same thing. You love the technicians, especially the dedicated ones, but in the end, the athletes usually come out on top. For the past three seasons, our team has had the same starting QB. They were only the starting QB because they knew the original HC's offense better than anyone (it was so complex and non-directional that none of us other coaches even understood it). They were the ultimate technician. Worked on every part of their game all the time. Even had a private QB coach this past summer. This year is new HC, new system, and we finally were able to allow others to compete for the starting QB position (last HC was...odd). Within our first day of practice, our "technician" QB slid all the way down to 3rd string due to their lack of mobility and arm strength. They picked up the new system before the other two, but it was obvious within the first day that they were not gonna be the starter. The original QB proclaimed about how hard they worked, and that their private QB coach got them throwing farther than ever (which is true), but they still couldn't hold a candle to the other two. This is the first year we've actually been able to run go routes with our outside receivers, or have been able to throw even an simple out route on time. The last QB was so smart and technical, but their athleticism and mobility just didn't allow them to execute even the most basic functions of the position. The reality is this player was only a starting QB in the past, because they were the only one that could translate or communicate the last system to the rest of the team to where we could...barely...function. By function, I mean line up correctly and snap a ball without getting a penalty. In those first three seasons, we averaged 0-1 offensive scores every game. Defense outscored the offense all three seasons. Now after two games into a new season with a new system and new QB, we're 2-0 for the first time ever, and we've scored 96 points where 90 of them have come from the offense (2pt conversions / we're not doing PAT's right now). ... My long-winded way of saying in the end, it's the athletes. I am curious about the offense you guys ran that was so complex and non directional |
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Post by bluedevil4 on Apr 26, 2022 9:32:26 GMT -6
Pretty much echoing the same thing. You love the technicians, especially the dedicated ones, but in the end, the athletes usually come out on top. For the past three seasons, our team has had the same starting QB. They were only the starting QB because they knew the original HC's offense better than anyone (it was so complex and non-directional that none of us other coaches even understood it). They were the ultimate technician. Worked on every part of their game all the time. Even had a private QB coach this past summer. This year is new HC, new system, and we finally were able to allow others to compete for the starting QB position (last HC was...odd). Within our first day of practice, our "technician" QB slid all the way down to 3rd string due to their lack of mobility and arm strength. They picked up the new system before the other two, but it was obvious within the first day that they were not gonna be the starter. The original QB proclaimed about how hard they worked, and that their private QB coach got them throwing farther than ever (which is true), but they still couldn't hold a candle to the other two. This is the first year we've actually been able to run go routes with our outside receivers, or have been able to throw even an simple out route on time. The last QB was so smart and technical, but their athleticism and mobility just didn't allow them to execute even the most basic functions of the position. The reality is this player was only a starting QB in the past, because they were the only one that could translate or communicate the last system to the rest of the team to where we could...barely...function. By function, I mean line up correctly and snap a ball without getting a penalty. In those first three seasons, we averaged 0-1 offensive scores every game. Defense outscored the offense all three seasons. Now after two games into a new season with a new system and new QB, we're 2-0 for the first time ever, and we've scored 96 points where 90 of them have come from the offense (2pt conversions / we're not doing PAT's right now). ... My long-winded way of saying in the end, it's the athletes. I am curious about the offense you guys ran that was so complex and non directional Strap yourselves in. Keep note that this past HC is/was also a co-owner who co-founded the team (so he had a lot of power). The old HC couldn't even describe it and it was his system. The bigger picture was an incompetent HC with a huge (but very fragile) ego. The way I describe the system is...An offense where you have the ability to call upon any formation, any scheme, any system, any motion, any adjustment, and any player, at any time. Basically, he designed it in such a way that he could make plays up on the fly and run literally anything you could think of. It used compartmentalized play-calling, which is a valid way of structuring your plays, but his approach to using compartmental play calling wasn't to run a system, but to run whatever play he wanted in the moment or that week. In one season, they guy installed Power-I, standard-I, offset-I, single back under center, single back shotgun, single-back and 2-back pistol, flexbone (and tried to run option), spread 4-wide, spread empty. Add on to that, he would add or install plays the day before a game, or even during pre-game warm-ups. He even said it himself when talking to the team. He always talked about "plays." Never scheme, process, technique, or system. It was always "This offense has great plays! We're gonna run awesome plays!" It was just a grab-bag of whatever he felt like doing that day. So why was it so complex? Because he changed the terminology and rules WEEKLY. Why? We found he changed them whenever a player asked a question that directly contradicted his terms or systems. For example... * if "Green" meant "A," and player did A, * but the coach wanted B, he'd ask why the player didn't do B. * The player would say "because you said to execute "Green." * The HC would yell/proclaim to everyone that "Green" now means B. This happened all the time. Through gossip from players, we also learned he was directly contradicting his assistants and approaching players behind our backs telling them to do things different than what their position coaches were teaching. So yea, that was a real doozie of a regime. We (the assistants) only hung around because we wanted to keep the players invested, and they would have been miserable without us. The assistant's job those three years was basically take what the HC thought he was doing and re-teach it in a practical way when he wasn't looking. |
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Post by jg78 on Apr 30, 2022 19:03:35 GMT -6
Talent.
Elite teams generally aren’t full of overachievers.
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Post by CS on Apr 30, 2022 19:27:17 GMT -6
Talent all day
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Post by wingtol on May 1, 2022 9:21:56 GMT -6
HS football....talent rules.
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Post by joelee on May 1, 2022 18:06:01 GMT -6
Talent
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Post by CS on May 1, 2022 19:00:11 GMT -6
Give me the DUDE...I'll coach him up.  |
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mc140
Sophomore Member
Posts: 220
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Post by mc140 on May 1, 2022 19:49:38 GMT -6
Talent with average work ethic over experience with great work ethic.
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Post by bulldogsdc on May 2, 2022 6:45:29 GMT -6
Give me the DUDE...I'll coach him up. You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie and wants to know....... |
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Post by bulldogsdc on May 2, 2022 6:47:23 GMT -6
HS football....talent rules. Georgia had 83 kids drafted... Talent is a big factor at all levels. |
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Post by 53 on May 2, 2022 6:56:10 GMT -6
Talent can get experience but it doesn't flow the other direction generally speaking.
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