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Post by fantom on Dec 27, 2021 14:19:51 GMT -6
Nope, this is NOT going to be another old-timer complaining that safety rules are ruining the game.
When I read people's complaints about how soft the game has become I wonder what it is that they miss. I guess the rules that most object to are targeting and blind-side blocking restrictions. Well, so what?
You can't aim for a guy's head when you're tackling anymore? Then don't. You can still hit people hard, you just can't try to knock him out now. High tackling is illegal in rugby too and I don't hear anybody calling that game soft (Although I'm sure there are still old-timers in a pub in Slough, UK bemoaning that they don't make them like they used to.). You can't essentially sneak up on a guy and blast him with a blind-side crack block? Good. Just block him. You don't have to try to kill him.
I was never shy about contact. I played HS, college and semi-pro football as an OL or LB then played rugby, mostly as a prop, in the middle of the scrum. I liked hitting people and didn't mind getting hit. If the new rules mean that fewer guys are getting hurt who didn't need to be that's a good thing. Is it destroying the game? That's what old-timers back in the day said about the forward pass.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2021 14:25:41 GMT -6
Nope, this is NOT going to be another old-timer complaining that safety rules are ruining the game. When I read people's complaints about how soft the game has become I wonder what it is that they miss. I guess the rules that most object to are targeting and blind-side blocking restrictions. Well, so what? You can't aim for a guy's head when you're tackling anymore? Then don't. You can still hit people hard, you just can't try to knock him out now. High tackling is illegal in rugby too and I don't hear anybody calling that game soft (Although I'm sure there are still old-timers in a pub in Slough, UK bemoaning that they don't make them like they used to.). You can't essentially sneak up on a guy and blast him with a blind-side crack block? Good. Just block him. You don't have to try to kill him. I was never shy about contact. I played HS, college and semi-pro football as an OL or LB then played rugby, mostly as a prop, in the middle of the scrum. I liked hitting people and didn't mind getting hit. If the new rules mean that fewer guys are getting hurt who didn't need to be that's a good thing. Is it destroying the game? That's what old-timers back in the day said about the forward pass. if it stopped there? I agree. But it has, predictably so, been a slippery slope. Now its no cut blocking, you can’t tackle guys a certain way.Just a matter of time before it is banned/outlawed.
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Post by tog on Dec 27, 2021 14:33:52 GMT -6
yes
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Post by fantom on Dec 27, 2021 15:19:22 GMT -6
Nope, this is NOT going to be another old-timer complaining that safety rules are ruining the game. When I read people's complaints about how soft the game has become I wonder what it is that they miss. I guess the rules that most object to are targeting and blind-side blocking restrictions. Well, so what? You can't aim for a guy's head when you're tackling anymore? Then don't. You can still hit people hard, you just can't try to knock him out now. High tackling is illegal in rugby too and I don't hear anybody calling that game soft (Although I'm sure there are still old-timers in a pub in Slough, UK bemoaning that they don't make them like they used to.). You can't essentially sneak up on a guy and blast him with a blind-side crack block? Good. Just block him. You don't have to try to kill him. I was never shy about contact. I played HS, college and semi-pro football as an OL or LB then played rugby, mostly as a prop, in the middle of the scrum. I liked hitting people and didn't mind getting hit. If the new rules mean that fewer guys are getting hurt who didn't need to be that's a good thing. Is it destroying the game? That's what old-timers back in the day said about the forward pass. if it stopped there? I agree. But it has, predictably so, been a slippery slope. Now its no cut blocking, you can’t tackle guys a certain way.Just a matter of time before it is banned/outlawed. Cut blocking was banned decades ago in the Fed and we've gotten along just fine without it. What ways can't you tackle?
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 27, 2021 15:33:54 GMT -6
if it stopped there? I agree. But it has, predictably so, been a slippery slope. Now its no cut blocking, you can’t tackle guys a certain way.Just a matter of time before it is banned/outlawed. Cut blocking was banned decades ago in the Fed and we've gotten along just fine without it. What ways can't you tackle? I will say this regarding tackling- it definitely is becoming more frustrating, particularly at the higher levels. While I absolutely realize this comment could be an example confirmation bias, it seems that a significant portion of helmet to helmet calls are caused by the offense changing body position after the defender has already started his tackling motion. Essentially defenders are now told to fly to the football, but then to execute the tackle in a smooth controlled manner. But, I agree with you, people lamenting the loss of the "kill shot" can go play in traffic.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2021 15:33:55 GMT -6
if it stopped there? I agree. But it has, predictably so, been a slippery slope. Now its no cut blocking, you can’t tackle guys a certain way.Just a matter of time before it is banned/outlawed. Cut blocking was banned decades ago in the Fed and we've gotten along just fine without it. What ways can't you tackle? horse collar, tackling qbs, defenseless rec. slippery slope. Cut block, crack block… double teams ok with you? I am ok with deliberate head being taken out. Should be. But the rest is non sense.
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Post by macdiiddy on Dec 27, 2021 15:55:31 GMT -6
Generally speaking, I feel NFHS rules are "less soft" than the pro's and NCAA. NFHS still allows 5 man wedges, there is no tackle box in which the QB can throw the ball away, and helmet to helmet is extremely difficult to regulate as there is no instant replay.
I do have a problem when HS refs start regulating hits on the QB like they do on Sunday. Nothing blatant but the small little shove or bumping into them which can draw flags now a days.
I have also made peace with the blindside block years ago. However, I literally teach the kids to be speed bumps. If a defender winds up on the ground, you did it wrong. Even if it is a legal hit, in front of the player with their hands extended, I have found that ref's react to the outcome of the hit and not the legality of it. I have seen too many legal blocks where it was a size differential and the player was "hit too hard".
Minor gripes. But I agree with your overall post.
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Post by bobgoodman on Dec 27, 2021 18:35:07 GMT -6
Much of the time if a blindside block doesn't put the opponent on the ground, it's an ineffective block. If you look at the bodies in motion around that collision, sometimes just deflecting the opponent is enough, but other times, if you let the opponent stay on his feet and fight thru that block, it won't accomplish much. I always thought of the blindside block as a great equalizer where, because of the way the play was going, a smaller player had the opportunity to put a larger one on the ground and contribute to the success of the play.
I used to play rugby too, and mostly as a prop. However, over the course of my lifetime, most of the safety concern in rugby has been in with the set scrums, not the open play issues we're discussing here. And in the meantime they even made one aspect of that game more dangerous, by legalizing lifting in the lineout just after I quit playing.
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CoachDP
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Post by CoachDP on Dec 29, 2021 14:23:20 GMT -6
I have found that ref's react to the outcome of the hit and not the legality of it. ^ THIS.
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Post by bluedevil4 on Dec 31, 2021 14:38:30 GMT -6
Nope, this is NOT going to be another old-timer complaining that safety rules are ruining the game. When I read people's complaints about how soft the game has become I wonder what it is that they miss. I guess the rules that most object to are targeting and blind-side blocking restrictions. Well, so what? You can't aim for a guy's head when you're tackling anymore? Then don't. You can still hit people hard, you just can't try to knock him out now. High tackling is illegal in rugby too and I don't hear anybody calling that game soft (Although I'm sure there are still old-timers in a pub in Slough, UK bemoaning that they don't make them like they used to.). You can't essentially sneak up on a guy and blast him with a blind-side crack block? Good. Just block him. You don't have to try to kill him. I was never shy about contact. I played HS, college and semi-pro football as an OL or LB then played rugby, mostly as a prop, in the middle of the scrum. I liked hitting people and didn't mind getting hit. If the new rules mean that fewer guys are getting hurt who didn't need to be that's a good thing. Is it destroying the game? That's what old-timers back in the day said about the forward pass. I love this. As a former rugby player, I feel the same way (Wing --> Hooker --> Scrum Half). I think what our sport needs is a huge culture shift, and to aggressively oust the "brutalize your opponent" attitudes...the coaches and players who encourage the KO hits, and who reward or encourage improper tackling as long as the hit is "big." My biggest gripe here is that most of us teach proper tackling, but the rules/officiating and culture of our sport does not discourage shoulder charging. It's like we teach proper tackling, but when someone doesn't tackle properly, as long as it's a "big hit," no one cares. Proper tackling is encouraged, but poor tackling form is not discouraged. You can still be physical. You can still "wear down" and demoralize your opponent with proper tackling and blocking. Essentially, less emphasis on "hitting," and more emphasis on "tackling." Make it like rugby; where the rules give you no choice but to tackle/hit properly. I really wish we'd enforce the wrap rule, where if you do not attempt to wrap up the ball carrier, it's a major penalty. Keep the head contact simple: If you hit an opponent in the head, you're ejected. No if/then, no "what about," no scenarios. I believe these two changes will fix the danger issue real quick.
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Post by carookie on Dec 31, 2021 16:27:39 GMT -6
Nope, this is NOT going to be another old-timer complaining that safety rules are ruining the game. When I read people's complaints about how soft the game has become I wonder what it is that they miss. I guess the rules that most object to are targeting and blind-side blocking restrictions. Well, so what? You can't aim for a guy's head when you're tackling anymore? Then don't. You can still hit people hard, you just can't try to knock him out now. High tackling is illegal in rugby too and I don't hear anybody calling that game soft (Although I'm sure there are still old-timers in a pub in Slough, UK bemoaning that they don't make them like they used to.). You can't essentially sneak up on a guy and blast him with a blind-side crack block? Good. Just block him. You don't have to try to kill him. I was never shy about contact. I played HS, college and semi-pro football as an OL or LB then played rugby, mostly as a prop, in the middle of the scrum. I liked hitting people and didn't mind getting hit. If the new rules mean that fewer guys are getting hurt who didn't need to be that's a good thing. Is it destroying the game? That's what old-timers back in the day said about the forward pass. I love this. As a former rugby player, I feel the same way (Wing --> Hooker --> Scrum Half). I think what our sport needs is a huge culture shift, and to aggressively oust the "brutalize your opponent" attitudes...the coaches and players who encourage the KO hits, and who reward or encourage improper tackling as long as the hit is "big." My biggest gripe here is that most of us teach proper tackling, but the rules/officiating and culture of our sport does not discourage shoulder charging. It's like we teach proper tackling, but when someone doesn't tackle properly, as long as it's a "big hit," no one cares. Proper tackling is encouraged, but poor tackling form is not discouraged. You can still be physical. You can still "wear down" and demoralize your opponent with proper tackling and blocking. Essentially, less emphasis on "hitting," and more emphasis on "tackling." Make it like rugby; where the rules give you no choice but to tackle/hit properly. I really wish we'd enforce the wrap rule, where if you do not attempt to wrap up the ball carrier, it's a major penalty. Keep the head contact simple: If you hit an opponent in the head, you're ejected. No if/then, no "what about," no scenarios. I believe these two changes will fix the danger issue real quick. The problem I have seen with this, is that defensive players try to avoid hitting the opponents head when tackling, but then the defender moves their head into the hit (essentially striking the opponent with their head). I am not writing they do this intentionally, but it happens a lot. Then your just essentially punishing the victim.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 1, 2022 15:42:39 GMT -6
Nope, this is NOT going to be another old-timer complaining that safety rules are ruining the game. When I read people's complaints about how soft the game has become I wonder what it is that they miss. I guess the rules that most object to are targeting and blind-side blocking restrictions. Well, so what? You can't aim for a guy's head when you're tackling anymore? Then don't. You can still hit people hard, you just can't try to knock him out now. High tackling is illegal in rugby too and I don't hear anybody calling that game soft (Although I'm sure there are still old-timers in a pub in Slough, UK bemoaning that they don't make them like they used to.). You can't essentially sneak up on a guy and blast him with a blind-side crack block? Good. Just block him. You don't have to try to kill him. I was never shy about contact. I played HS, college and semi-pro football as an OL or LB then played rugby, mostly as a prop, in the middle of the scrum. I liked hitting people and didn't mind getting hit. If the new rules mean that fewer guys are getting hurt who didn't need to be that's a good thing. Is it destroying the game? That's what old-timers back in the day said about the forward pass. I love this. As a former rugby player, I feel the same way (Wing --> Hooker --> Scrum Half). I think what our sport needs is a huge culture shift, and to aggressively oust the "brutalize your opponent" attitudes...the coaches and players who encourage the KO hits, and who reward or encourage improper tackling as long as the hit is "big." My biggest gripe here is that most of us teach proper tackling, but the rules/officiating and culture of our sport does not discourage shoulder charging. It's like we teach proper tackling, but when someone doesn't tackle properly, as long as it's a "big hit," no one cares. Proper tackling is encouraged, but poor tackling form is not discouraged. You can still be physical. You can still "wear down" and demoralize your opponent with proper tackling and blocking. Essentially, less emphasis on "hitting," and more emphasis on "tackling." Make it like rugby; where the rules give you no choice but to tackle/hit properly. I really wish we'd enforce the wrap rule, where if you do not attempt to wrap up the ball carrier, it's a major penalty. Keep the head contact simple: If you hit an opponent in the head, you're ejected. No if/then, no "what about," no scenarios. I believe these two changes will fix the danger issue real quick. A major penalty (presumably personal foul) for not attempting to wrap up the ball carrier? But that'd mean you could make hits on other players that you couldn't make legally on the ballcarrier. The idea might've crossed the minds of rules makers for American football within the past century to outlaw other means of getting the ballcarrier to the ground, but only briefly when they realized you could block non-ballcarriers and knock them down. Why make the runner immune to hits the other players were exposed to? I couldn't see making it a strict liability rule to not hit opponents in the head, especially if it's a disqualifying foul, because there are too many ways for it to happen accidentally. You're giving a forearm shiver to an opponent across his chest, and after contact your forearm slips upward or the opponent slides downward, and you're giving him an uppercut. You're making a shoulder block, intending to hit in the armpit, shoulder, or chest area, and the opponent dips lower than you'd anticipated. You're straight-arming with an open palm, and get the opponent on the helmet.
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Post by Defcord on Jan 1, 2022 17:58:55 GMT -6
I’m happy to see blind side hits go. Seemed like the players happiest to have them were the ones that couldn’t block a soul anyway and they used the blindside to act tough.
We are tackling as fast as we ever have so we are making as solid and as hard contact as we ever have as well. We play physical football because our increase in speed in tackling. The hawk tackling stuff has caught on I believe because it’s not a safer way to tackle (which I do believe it is) but because it’s a much more efficient way to tackle. We give up far less cutbacks since transitioning to the hawk tackling methods.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 2, 2022 16:16:49 GMT -6
I’m happy to see blind side hits go. Seemed like the players happiest to have them were the ones that couldn’t block a soul anyway and they used the blindside to act tough. That's a difference between our attitudes. I like seeing the ones that couldn't block a soul otherwise get their chance and take advantage.
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Post by Defcord on Jan 2, 2022 18:14:19 GMT -6
I’m happy to see blind side hits go. Seemed like the players happiest to have them were the ones that couldn’t block a soul anyway and they used the blindside to act tough. That's a difference between our attitudes. I like seeing the ones that couldn't block a soul otherwise get their chance and take advantage. Me too but I like to see them do it by working in the weight room and practicing consistently to the point that they can block someone based on their abilities rather than because they happen upon another player that isn’t aware of their intentions.
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