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Dodge
Dec 19, 2021 8:11:50 GMT -6
Post by coachwoodall on Dec 19, 2021 8:11:50 GMT -6
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Post by coachd5085 on Dec 19, 2021 8:41:40 GMT -6
First thing that jumps to my mind is that how can one say that is the "most difficult championship to win in all of HS football" when he did it 7 times? I am betting that just like almost every other state, the last team standing in December can easily be put into a group of 5-7 teams in August. The second thing that jumps out is Dodge's story seems to be one of right person/right place/right time, which ultimately is the story behind any sports dynasty. It doesn't really talk about his two losing seasons at Marble Falls. I am not a Texas football guy, but to me it seems like he did an excellent job of getting the "right" jobs, and then knowing how to leverage the advantages of those jobs to bring great success. |
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Post by Coach.A on Dec 19, 2021 10:08:04 GMT -6
It's hard to win anywhere!
That said, I think you could make an argument that it's harder to win if you're competing against more schools. I realize there are plenty of other factors, but generally your odds of winning decrease as you increase the number of competitors.
For example, 25 teams competing for 1 state championship title, vs. 250 teams competing for 1 state championship title.
I'm not from Texas, so I could be way off here, but isn't the Texas 6A classification the largest (i.e. has the most teams competing for 1 state championship)?
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Post by wingtol on Dec 19, 2021 16:45:48 GMT -6
First thing that jumps to my mind is that how can one say that is the "most difficult championship to win in all of HS football" when he did it 7 times? I am betting that just like almost every other state, the last team standing in December can easily be put into a group of 5-7 teams in August. The second thing that jumps out is Dodge's story seems to be one of right person/right place/right time, which ultimately is the story behind any sports dynasty. It doesn't really talk about his two losing seasons at Marble Falls. I am not a Texas football guy, but to me it seems like he did an excellent job of getting the "right" jobs, and then knowing how to leverage the advantages of those jobs to bring great success. Outside of the Trinity League or whatever it is that Mater Dei plays in ^A in Texas has to be the toughest class to win in. Sure there are probably 5-7 teams that can win it but when they are all probably top 25 teams in the nation then it becomes much harder. Throw in the coaching talent along with the player talent and it's a different world in Texas 6A ball. Schools of 5-6000 kids with 500 in the football program, Full time head coaches who are "ADs", coordinators who probably teach two classes a day etc and I would say it's no joke. |
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Dodge
Dec 19, 2021 18:40:15 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by larrymoe on Dec 19, 2021 18:40:15 GMT -6
I was intrigued by this tidbit in the article-
"Dodge's seven titles trail Gordon Wood's nine, GA Moore's eight, and Scott Surratt's eight (and counting)"
What list are they using? Just coaches they think are good? Rochester Illinois' Derek Leonard has won 8 state championships and I'm not sure the guy's 40 years old yet.
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Dodge
Dec 19, 2021 18:54:43 GMT -6
Post by fantom on Dec 19, 2021 18:54:43 GMT -6
I was intrigued by this tidbit in the article- "Dodge's seven titles trail Gordon Wood's nine, GA Moore's eight, and Scott Surratt's eight (and counting)" What list are they using? Just coaches they think are good? Rochester Illinois' Derek Leonard has won 8 state championships and I'm not sure the guy's 40 years old yet. They must be talking about Texas. |
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Dodge
Dec 19, 2021 19:20:04 GMT -6
via mobile
fantom likes this
Post by larrymoe on Dec 19, 2021 19:20:04 GMT -6
I was intrigued by this tidbit in the article- "Dodge's seven titles trail Gordon Wood's nine, GA Moore's eight, and Scott Surratt's eight (and counting)" What list are they using? Just coaches they think are good? Rochester Illinois' Derek Leonard has won 8 state championships and I'm not sure the guy's 40 years old yet. They must be talking about Texas. Oh. I just scanned it and thought GA was for Georgia. It never dawned on me that could be a first name. I am an idiot. Carry on. |
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Dodge
Dec 19, 2021 19:21:57 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 19, 2021 19:21:57 GMT -6
I was intrigued by this tidbit in the article- "Dodge's seven titles trail Gordon Wood's nine, GA Moore's eight, and Scott Surratt's eight (and counting)" What list are they using? Just coaches they think are good? Rochester Illinois' Derek Leonard has won 8 state championships and I'm not sure the guy's 40 years old yet. They are just talking about Texas Coaches. I believe JT Curtis has the all time state championship record nationwide with 26 titles (27 but one was forfeited), and an additional 10 state runner up trophies. |
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Dodge
Dec 19, 2021 19:40:04 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 19, 2021 19:40:04 GMT -6
It's hard to win anywhere! That said, I think you could make an argument that it's harder to win if you're competing against more schools. I realize there are plenty of other factors, but generally your odds of winning decrease as you increase the number of competitors. For example, 25 teams competing for 1 state championship title, vs. 250 teams competing for 1 state championship title. I'm not from Texas, so I could be way off here, but isn't the Texas 6A classification the largest (i.e. has the most teams competing for 1 state championship)? I guess it is a matter of perspective. I would argue it is significantly harder to win a Superbowl than it is a CFP national championship--but there are only 32 teams (currently) in the NFL and there are 130 FBS teams. However, if you are at OSU, BAMA, OKLAHOMA, etc. is it "that" hard? There are spots where it is significantly easier in college (and definitely in HS). If I offered you a bet where you could select 4 teams pre season that would win the championship, you would probably feel good about your chances picking HS or FBS even though those entities have many more teams competing. In fact, if we equalized the difference in number of participants by saying you could choose 10% of the teams and if one of them won the championship you win, I believe you would feel VERY good about your chances at the HS (Tex 6A would get to pick 25 schools) or college level (FBS would get to pick 13 teams pre season) but only 3 teams in the NFL. |
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Dodge
Dec 19, 2021 21:51:37 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Dec 19, 2021 21:51:37 GMT -6
They must be talking about Texas. Oh. I just scanned it and thought GA was for Georgia. It never dawned on me that could be a first name. I am an idiot. Carry on. Yeah, I was gonna say Coach Kyle of St. Ignatius has like 11 state championships here in OH and Tiger LaVerde should have that many or more by the time he’s done at Kirtland. But since this is a TX only thing it makes sense. |
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Dodge
Dec 20, 2021 16:12:58 GMT -6
Post by Coach.A on Dec 20, 2021 16:12:58 GMT -6
It's hard to win anywhere! That said, I think you could make an argument that it's harder to win if you're competing against more schools. I realize there are plenty of other factors, but generally your odds of winning decrease as you increase the number of competitors. For example, 25 teams competing for 1 state championship title, vs. 250 teams competing for 1 state championship title. I'm not from Texas, so I could be way off here, but isn't the Texas 6A classification the largest (i.e. has the most teams competing for 1 state championship)? I guess it is a matter of perspective. I would argue it is significantly harder to win a Superbowl than it is a CFP national championship--but there are only 32 teams (currently) in the NFL and there are 130 FBS teams. However, if you are at OSU, BAMA, OKLAHOMA, etc. is it "that" hard? There are spots where it is significantly easier in college (and definitely in HS). If I offered you a bet where you could select 4 teams pre season that would win the championship, you would probably feel good about your chances picking HS or FBS even though those entities have many more teams competing. In fact, if we equalized the difference in number of participants by saying you could choose 10% of the teams and if one of them won the championship you win, I believe you would feel VERY good about your chances at the HS (Tex 6A would get to pick 25 schools) or college level (FBS would get to pick 13 teams pre season) but only 3 teams in the NFL. I agree with everything in your post. Parity is a huge factor when trying to win a championship. A level playing field facilitated by salary caps, roster sizes, and a draft help improve parity at the NFL level. At the college level, recruiting, massive variations in budgets, rich alumni donors, and now NILs decrease parity. For that reason, I think identifying the upper echelon in college football is probably the easiest. There are definitely less than 32 teams in the NCAA that have the potential to win a National Championship in a given year. At the high school level though, I think the answer lies somewhere in between. In most regions/divisions, recruiting is "illegal". Usually schools are funded relatively equally according to classification, but I know that varies from state to state. I would guess that in most states you could find 32+ teams that at least have the potential to be playing on a relatively even playing field. What I mean by "potential to be playing on a level playing field" --> Some schools chose to devote more time, energy and budget dollars to football, while other schools use it in other ways. Instead of using the "top 10% of teams" example.....Would it be easier to pick the Superbowl winner in a given year, or pick the Georgia 2A class state champions from the top 32 ranked teams in the 2A class? I ask this question based on the assumption that not all schools choose to prioritize support/funding their football. Personally, I think the people in leadership positions might be the biggest determining factor at the high school level. If you have a supportive administration and a quality/experienced coaching staff, that puts you way ahead of the opponents that don't have these people in place. |
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Dodge
Dec 20, 2021 18:56:01 GMT -6
Post by coachd5085 on Dec 20, 2021 18:56:01 GMT -6
I guess it is a matter of perspective. I would argue it is significantly harder to win a Superbowl than it is a CFP national championship--but there are only 32 teams (currently) in the NFL and there are 130 FBS teams. However, if you are at OSU, BAMA, OKLAHOMA, etc. is it "that" hard? There are spots where it is significantly easier in college (and definitely in HS). If I offered you a bet where you could select 4 teams pre season that would win the championship, you would probably feel good about your chances picking HS or FBS even though those entities have many more teams competing. In fact, if we equalized the difference in number of participants by saying you could choose 10% of the teams and if one of them won the championship you win, I believe you would feel VERY good about your chances at the HS (Tex 6A would get to pick 25 schools) or college level (FBS would get to pick 13 teams pre season) but only 3 teams in the NFL. I agree with everything in your post. Parity is a huge factor when trying to win a championship. A level playing field facilitated by salary caps, roster sizes, and a draft help improve parity at the NFL level. At the college level, recruiting, massive variations in budgets, rich alumni donors, and now NILs decrease parity. For that reason, I think identifying the upper echelon in college football is probably the easiest. There are definitely less than 32 teams in the NCAA that have the potential to win a National Championship in a given year. At the high school level though, I think the answer lies somewhere in between. In most regions/divisions, recruiting is "illegal". Usually schools are funded relatively equally according to classification, but I know that varies from state to state. I would guess that in most states you could find 32+ teams that at least have the potential to be playing on a relatively even playing field. What I mean by "potential to be playing on a level playing field" --> Some schools chose to devote more time, energy and budget dollars to football, while other schools use it in other ways. Instead of using the "top 10% of teams" example.....Would it be easier to pick the Superbowl winner in a given year, or pick the Georgia 2A class state champions from the top 32 ranked teams in the 2A class? I ask this question based on the assumption that not all schools choose to prioritize support/funding their football. Personally, I think the people in leadership positions might be the biggest determining factor at the high school level. If you have a supportive administration and a quality/experienced coaching staff, that puts you way ahead of the opponents that don't have these people in place. But HS's don't do that, which was the basis of my statement. As I stated, I would feel pretty confident that coaches in each state could name 4 or 5 teams in any classification in their state and feel pretty comfortable that one of those teams was going to be the state champ. I suppose someone who wanted to argue with me though could simply say "Tom Brady" or "Bill Belichick" in response to my "If it is so hard to win in HS, how does this guy have 7" comment. So who knows. |
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Dodge
Dec 21, 2021 6:54:27 GMT -6
Post by echoofthewhistle on Dec 21, 2021 6:54:27 GMT -6
I read it when you first posted. I still can't get over "spread passing game Mount Rushmore, alongside Hal Mumme, Sonny Detmer and Mike Leach rests the visage of Todd Dodge." |
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