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Post by option1 on Dec 9, 2021 7:58:38 GMT -6
We are a title 1 school with 1600 kids. Our demographic is typical of the area, give or take, 38% Hispanic, 32% white, 22% black. All of our sports sans wrestling are trash. Even wrestling which has been a juggernaut for over 30 years has been down for lack of participation. While our kids are not very talented it is obvious to me that we would be better together. We literally need each other just to compete.
My idea is to present my athletic director with a "sit down" among all the coaches to see if we can somehow "incentivise" playing multiple sports. The tricky part is to come up with a way to present it as not optional. While I realize that we technically cannot force a kid to do something, we can strongly encourage it.
Anyone have any experience with this type of thing? What are some ideas you might take into the meeting?
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Post by tog on Dec 9, 2021 8:14:14 GMT -6
your ad should already be demanding it
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2021 9:18:39 GMT -6
your ad should already be demanding it
Agreed. We can promote playing multiple-sports all we want as coaches but it has to come from above us to truly be effective. The administration needs to come down hard on any coaches who are pushing specialization. Or better yet, don't hire them.
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Post by option1 on Dec 9, 2021 9:33:27 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses but they are not helpful. My AD does not currently enforce much of anything. Not because he doesn't want to, more because he doesn't know how. "Athletic Director" is about 10% of what these figure heads do. In our district the bulk of the AD job is building maintenance and safety (fire drills, etc).
I'm essentially looking for ideas where I can make it his idea and get his support.
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humble
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Post by humble on Dec 9, 2021 10:20:17 GMT -6
The biggest fact of the matter is that alot kids will naturally choose the path of least resistance. Basketball and Baseball programs both need to be having legit offseasons that make them lift, and hold them accontable in every way possible. If you don't have this, you will lose sevaral every year that just want to "focus on baseball/basketball" which means they don't want to work year-around.
Thats just my experience.
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Post by tog on Dec 9, 2021 10:37:18 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses but they are not helpful. My AD does not currently enforce much of anything. Not because he doesn't want to, more because he doesn't know how. "Athletic Director" is about 10% of what these figure heads do. In our district the bulk of the AD job is building maintenance and safety (fire drills, etc). I'm essentially looking for ideas where I can make it his idea and get his support. well my whole career I worked with a head football coach that was either the AD or at least the campus coordinator that did the hiring and firing. I wouldn't work for one that didn't enforce multiple sports. So I don't have any experience with this directly To try and help though, I have certainly had head coaches that you had to know, then make them think it was their idea to do something. You have to know them and how they think though. It's also kinda like being married....lol |
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2021 10:57:19 GMT -6
I appreciate the responses but they are not helpful. My AD does not currently enforce much of anything. Not because he doesn't want to, more because he doesn't know how. "Athletic Director" is about 10% of what these figure heads do. In our district the bulk of the AD job is building maintenance and safety (fire drills, etc). I'm essentially looking for ideas where I can make it his idea and get his support.
I understand your frustration. I've coached in multiple schools where specialization was pushed by various sports. As a staff, we emphasized playing as many sports as possible but were undermined by coaches in sports that were more successful than us. Recruiting the hallways got a few more guys out for football but most of them would quit early on because there was pressure from other sports.
In my first HC gig, the only way we managed to fight specialization was by a) winning more games and b) the new basketball coach having a rough season. We always promoted the heck out of the program but it took that combination to get the kids to stop focusing solely on basketball. The AD was a former basketball coach in the school and he did little to shut down the specialization of basketball.
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Post by Defcord on Dec 9, 2021 10:59:32 GMT -6
If kids don't want to be there they will not contribute in a meaningful way.
The idea of formulating a plan to get all coaches on the same page in encouraging multisport participation could be productive.
The best way to "recruit" the halls is to create a product in your own sport that your kids love and want to be part of. If you can do this, word will spread and kids will naturally gravitate to your program.
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Post by Coach Bennett on Dec 9, 2021 10:59:59 GMT -6
We are a title 1 school with 1600 kids. Our demographic is typical of the area, give or take, 38% Hispanic, 32% white, 22% black. All of our sports sans wrestling are trash. Even wrestling which has been a juggernaut for over 30 years has been down for lack of participation. While our kids are not very talented it is obvious to me that we would be better together. We literally need each other just to compete. My idea is to present my athletic director with a "sit down" among all the coaches to see if we can somehow "incentivise" playing multiple sports. The tricky part is to come up with a way to present it as not optional. While I realize that we technically cannot force a kid to do something, we can strongly encourage it. Anyone have any experience with this type of thing? What are some ideas you might take into the meeting? Why not organize your own meeting with those coaches and sell your plan? Maybe you can combine fundraising efforts and create an "Ironman" group of multi-sport athletes? Just spitballin' here... |
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Post by coachcb on Dec 9, 2021 11:05:28 GMT -6
We are a title 1 school with 1600 kids. Our demographic is typical of the area, give or take, 38% Hispanic, 32% white, 22% black. All of our sports sans wrestling are trash. Even wrestling which has been a juggernaut for over 30 years has been down for lack of participation. While our kids are not very talented it is obvious to me that we would be better together. We literally need each other just to compete. My idea is to present my athletic director with a "sit down" among all the coaches to see if we can somehow "incentivise" playing multiple sports. The tricky part is to come up with a way to present it as not optional. While I realize that we technically cannot force a kid to do something, we can strongly encourage it. Anyone have any experience with this type of thing? What are some ideas you might take into the meeting? Why not organize your own meeting with those coaches and sell your plan? Maybe you can combine fundraising efforts and create an "Ironman" group of multi-sport athletes? Just spitballin' here...
IME, working with coaches who are pushing specialization is "difficult" to put it lightly. In the HC gig I described, I approached the other coaches about getting a unified strength program in place. Everyone but the track and field HC asked me "what is the basketball program doing?" Which was nothing, btw.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 11:11:52 GMT -6
Do you have a school-wide lifting program? If not, start there by presenting a plan for one that includes what it would look like, who would be responsible for it, and how it would benefit all sports. If the athletes lift together, it makes it more likely they will want to play on multiple teams together. If you can get the other sports’ coaches to help (this can easily turn into a cluster), that will ease some specialization.
As others have said, the AD or Principal needs to come down on any coaches who are encouraging specialization or discouraging participation in any other sports. IME, these tend to be basketball, baseball, and wrestling coaches. If he is unwilling or unable to do that, then your efforts just won’t get much traction.
Trying to give kids the impression that they are *required* to play multiple sports if they want to play any is just going to lead to fewer kids coming out to play any sport. Instead, look at incentives to get kids to play 2 sports or more, like some kind of special swag or posting their pictures in the trophy case if they letter in 3 sports in one year.
What I’ve found in my career is that kids are very cliquey and want to play alongside their friends. Find the groups in your school that have athletes you’d want to play, get a feel for who the more popular or influential kids are within those groups, and try to build relationships with them and recruit them to play football or another sport for you. When they come, they’ll bring others with them. Not everybody will stick, but some will.
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Post by option1 on Dec 9, 2021 11:31:12 GMT -6
We are a title 1 school with 1600 kids. Our demographic is typical of the area, give or take, 38% Hispanic, 32% white, 22% black. All of our sports sans wrestling are trash. Even wrestling which has been a juggernaut for over 30 years has been down for lack of participation. While our kids are not very talented it is obvious to me that we would be better together. We literally need each other just to compete. My idea is to present my athletic director with a "sit down" among all the coaches to see if we can somehow "incentivise" playing multiple sports. The tricky part is to come up with a way to present it as not optional. While I realize that we technically cannot force a kid to do something, we can strongly encourage it. Anyone have any experience with this type of thing? What are some ideas you might take into the meeting? Why not organize your own meeting with those coaches and sell your plan? Maybe you can combine fundraising efforts and create an "Ironman" group of multi-sport athletes? Just spitballin' here... Mainly because I think I would get a bunch of lip service. |
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immiru
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Post by immiru on Dec 9, 2021 12:06:40 GMT -6
An option may be to push for an athletics parent meeting to talk about college money available to athletes both as a participant and as a result of participating in extra curriculum activity in things like leadership scholarships at the smaller colleges that can't give out sports scholarships. This presents the opportunity to show how the college and even professional levels recruit multi-sport athletes over specialized athletes. A good teaser is 30 of the 32 first-round picks in the 2017 NFL draft were multi-sport athletes. (https://www.nsr-inc.com/scouting-news/multi-sport-athletes-vs-single-sport-athletes/) All the coaches should be at this meeting as well and be able to discuss transferable skills that can help the students by playing another sport. It's tough to get an actual college recruiter to stop by sometimes but we have had success when we get parents or guardians thinking about paying for college.
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Post by blb on Dec 9, 2021 13:32:50 GMT -6
There are two problems with "recruiting" HS kids to play football (not saying it can't work in some instances).
First, by the time kids get to HS, they have either tried playing at youth levels, didn't like it for whatever reason(s) including lack of team success, or see themselves only as players in other sports (specialization).
Secondly, if you have to "talk them into coming out" they often feel you owe them something (PT) and are resistant to being coached, and doing all the things the "football players" had to do.
Especially the "Off-Season" stuff.
However you sell it - it has to be THEIR idea to WANT to be there or it's not going to work.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2021 18:04:56 GMT -6
The idea one is going to stop specialization…ok.
Baseball, basketball, and soccer are year round sports at least here in the south.
And there is to much money to be made away from the high school affiliation.
If you want to do it, cut off all offseason work. Football ends in october, november whatever and we will see you in august. Same with x,y, and z sports.
The other option, take the classes to be an AD. Otherwise everybody is just going to nod their head in agreement and say well we have this tournament, this opening, this invitation. And football will be left to august to november and told there is no need for year round football. Oh wait…
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Post by mrjvi on Dec 9, 2021 19:08:37 GMT -6
In my experience if you need to "Talk them into playing" as blb said above (virtually begging) they almost never pan out as a player of much value. All the above can have some effect- winning,somewhat, strong weight program, somewhat etc. The biggest thing that helped around my neighboring schools that are doing great are that the AD's MAKE all teams properly strength train or the coaches can't coach. THEN strong kids tend to do more sports. Not sure why numbers improve then but maybe when the NON weight training possibility of many sports is eliminated, they figure they may as well use that strength in more sports because they all will be lifting anyways. Probably why the BFS unified strength program was so succssful to all those schools' sports. Higher winning %ages from all of them.
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Post by bigspicy on Dec 16, 2021 8:31:29 GMT -6
your ad should already be demanding it Why? I mean, why sould an AD demand it, while i am not a HC/AD; as a football coach i would love to go tell our basketball and baseball kids that they need to play football, it is not often that the reason a lot of these kids are specializing because that is what either they want or a parent wants. I know for a fact that our basketball HC will usually recommend a kid that is straight basketball come try football, some will and most dont! But, i dont get why it should be "mandatory" i get the encouraged part, but to be speaking honestly, if most of us were just basket ball or baseball coaches, and you have a "special" athlete that will benefit from specializing in that one sport, i will do whatever i can to keep him to myself, as selfish as that sounds, that is exactly what most of us would do if we were a one sport coach. I do understand that at a smaller school, this is different, but at a small school, there is a good chance that the basketball/baseball coach is also a football coach. not a popular opinion, but it is just that! |
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Post by tog on Dec 16, 2021 8:50:31 GMT -6
your ad should already be demanding it Why? I mean, why sould an AD demand it, while i am not a HC/AD; as a football coach i would love to go tell our basketball and baseball kids that they need to play football, it is not often that the reason a lot of these kids are specializing because that is what either they want or a parent wants. I know for a fact that our basketball HC will usually recommend a kid that is straight basketball come try football, some will and most dont! But, i dont get why it should be "mandatory" i get the encouraged part, but to be speaking honestly, if most of us were just basket ball or baseball coaches, and you have a "special" athlete that will benefit from specializing in that one sport, i will do whatever i can to keep him to myself, as selfish as that sounds, that is exactly what most of us would do if we were a one sport coach. I do understand that at a smaller school, this is different, but at a small school, there is a good chance that the basketball/baseball coach is also a football coach. not a popular opinion, but it is just that! meaning, if any of the coaches are telling kids to go one sport only they don't need to be there that demand can't really demand the kids to do multiple---well you can, but probably not much anymore in this pantywaist age but the ad certainly can and should demand that the coaches they are in charge of do not push kids into one sport only |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2021 8:53:51 GMT -6
Football is the only that ever suffers in the demand to not specialize. Baseball? They have try outs. They can specialize without saying a word. Same with basketball, same with swimming, tennis, even wrestling……
Football is the only sport where everybody is allowed.
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Post by bigspicy on Dec 16, 2021 9:11:57 GMT -6
Football is the only that ever suffers in the demand to not specialize. Baseball? They have try outs. They can specialize without saying a word. Same with basketball, same with swimming, tennis, even wrestling…… Football is the only sport where everybody is allowed. this so true |
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Post by bigspicy on Dec 16, 2021 9:19:21 GMT -6
Why? I mean, why sould an AD demand it, while i am not a HC/AD; as a football coach i would love to go tell our basketball and baseball kids that they need to play football, it is not often that the reason a lot of these kids are specializing because that is what either they want or a parent wants. I know for a fact that our basketball HC will usually recommend a kid that is straight basketball come try football, some will and most dont! But, i dont get why it should be "mandatory" i get the encouraged part, but to be speaking honestly, if most of us were just basket ball or baseball coaches, and you have a "special" athlete that will benefit from specializing in that one sport, i will do whatever i can to keep him to myself, as selfish as that sounds, that is exactly what most of us would do if we were a one sport coach. I do understand that at a smaller school, this is different, but at a small school, there is a good chance that the basketball/baseball coach is also a football coach. not a popular opinion, but it is just that! meaning, if any of the coaches are telling kids to go one sport only they don't need to be there that demand can't really demand the kids to do multiple---well you can, but probably not much anymore in this pantywaist age but the ad certainly can and should demand that the coaches they are in charge of do not push kids into one sport only A one sport coach doesn't have to demand they only play one sport, as stated, in many cases it is the athletes and/or parents decision for their child to specialize. And if you believe that because I would not require a special athlete that would benefit from staying in one sport and they do not want to play in another, that I should not be at that place is asinine! I would never do it for my own benefit but for that of the athlete, kids need that type of direction sometimes. We currently have a kid that qualified for regionals as a sophomore in the triple jump, and was a JV B football player. In this case this kid would benefit from going straight track, and if he never hears that, then i could be costing him scholarship money as he would not develop as well as he could specializing. But, maybe some of us do it for our own glory! |
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Post by tog on Dec 16, 2021 9:25:26 GMT -6
meaning, if any of the coaches are telling kids to go one sport only they don't need to be there that demand can't really demand the kids to do multiple---well you can, but probably not much anymore in this pantywaist age but the ad certainly can and should demand that the coaches they are in charge of do not push kids into one sport only A one sport coach doesn't have to demand they only play one sport, as stated, in many cases it is the athletes and/or parents decision for their child to specialize. And if you believe that because I would not require a special athlete that would benefit from staying in one sport and they do not want to play in another, that I should not be at that place is asinine! I would never do it for my own benefit but for that of the athlete, kids need that type of direction sometimes. We currently have a kid that qualified for regionals as a sophomore in the triple jump, and was a JV B football player. In this case this kid would benefit from going straight track, and if he never hears that, then i could be costing him scholarship money as he would not develop as well as he could specializing. But, maybe some of us do it for our own glory! try reading what I wrote again |
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Post by CanyonCoach on Dec 16, 2021 13:53:26 GMT -6
Football is the only that ever suffers in the demand to not specialize. Baseball? They have try outs. They can specialize without saying a word. Same with basketball, same with swimming, tennis, even wrestling…… Football is the only sport where everybody is allowed. this so true Track would fall into everybody allowed. |
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Post by s73 on Dec 16, 2021 16:54:03 GMT -6
I would also add that the reality of the situation is that FB requires more kids and more work. Hence, even w/o specialization many times numbers are still not great. Sometimes you just have kids who don't want to work that hard.
For Example, maybe 35 kids tryout for baseball and they keep 25. To the outside eye it looks like baseball is swimming in numbers and had to cut 10.
On the other hand, 60 kids go out for football. You almost doubled up BB but it still feels nad b/c you NEED so many more.
I think we have to try as coaches to find a way to make FB more marketable.
In other words, look at what is "tradiitonally" done in FB and see if you can "cut the fat" to make the season more enticing.
I have done a good job w/ this myself in many respects (2 a days, condiitoning, shorter practcie times, no Saturdays for players) but where I hurt myself was playing time. In the fututre I have to get more kids on the field one way or another.
All of this is to say that I think you have more power over keeping your program xiable than any AD. He can promote all he wants but the reality of the situation is he is ultimately powerless to MAKE kids do anything short of finding some sort of incentive program for multi sport athletes. IDK what that would be but one I would consider pitching to admin is maybe optional final exams for multi sport kids.
I mean, a lot of people in education are devaluing tests anyway. Maybe something like that? Sounds radical but seems to me like a lot of education is getting pretty radical nowadays. Seems reasonable to me when you correlate higher grades, better behavior and more productivity for kids involved in athletics.
Just my 2 cents.
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Post by CanyonCoach on Dec 17, 2021 13:11:59 GMT -6
With full realization that this is not feasible in every school:
The most successful football program in our area had the following situation when they moved from a 20 year in the running program to an elite program.
HC for football- also JV basketball and Throwers coach in track
DB’s coach- also freshmen basketball coach and Head track coach working with sprinters
LB’s coach- also assistant wrestling coach and club wrestling coach
DL coach- also head strength coach working with all programs
WR’s coach- also assistant baseball coach
OL coach- also assistant baseball
All of the best athletes were 3 sport kids with most in football and track.
They were state champs in football in: 15/16/19/20. Basketball 11/18. Baseball 18/19. Track 15/16/19/20
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 14:15:47 GMT -6
With full realization that this is not feasible in every school: The most successful football program in our area had the following situation when they moved from a 20 year in the running program to an elite program. HC for football- also JV basketball and Throwers coach in track DB’s coach- also freshmen basketball coach and Head track coach working with sprinters LB’s coach- also assistant wrestling coach and club wrestling coach DL coach- also head strength coach working with all programs WR’s coach- also assistant baseball coach OL coach- also assistant baseball All of the best athletes were 3 sport kids with most in football and track. They were state champs in football in: 15/16/19/20. Basketball 11/18. Baseball 18/19. Track 15/16/19/20 More money for his coaches. And I will bet hc is ad |
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Post by CanyonCoach on Dec 17, 2021 14:33:59 GMT -6
With full realization that this is not feasible in every school: The most successful football program in our area had the following situation when they moved from a 20 year in the running program to an elite program. HC for football- also JV basketball and Throwers coach in track DB’s coach- also freshmen basketball coach and Head track coach working with sprinters LB’s coach- also assistant wrestling coach and club wrestling coach DL coach- also head strength coach working with all programs WR’s coach- also assistant baseball coach OL coach- also assistant baseball All of the best athletes were 3 sport kids with most in football and track. They were state champs in football in: 15/16/19/20. Basketball 11/18. Baseball 18/19. Track 15/16/19/20 More money for his coaches. And I will bet hc is ad HC is not AD. There are 2 other schools in their district and all have same sized school staff and pay scale. They do have 4 coaches paid by booster club but I couldn’t say what that amount is per coach. We had 3 booster coaches this last season but have had up to 6. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2021 15:06:22 GMT -6
More money for his coaches. And I will bet hc is ad HC is not AD. There are 2 other schools in their district and all have same sized school staff and pay scale. They do have 4 coaches paid by booster club but I couldn’t say what that amount is per coach. We had 3 booster coaches this last season but have had up to 6. other sports get stipends. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Dec 18, 2021 6:12:15 GMT -6
question
Has specialization trended in correlation to FB becoming a year around endeavor?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2021 6:31:45 GMT -6
question Has specialization trended in correlation to FB becoming a year around endeavor? I have assumed it’s one in the same, mostly because nobody demands the same other sports. |
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