humble
Sophomore Member
Posts: 204 
|
Post by humble on Nov 29, 2021 8:16:03 GMT -6
At what point do you decide to go to "plan B" ?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 8:20:06 GMT -6
At what point do you decide to go to "plan B" ? When you put the offense together in the spring. Coachkeating nailed it. |
|
|
|
Post by cwaltsmith on Nov 29, 2021 9:16:56 GMT -6
We are wing t and no one (literally) can run plays faster than us. We only do it occasionally, but we can run the entire offense on the ball and snap it as fast as humanly possible. It is not hard. Just yell the dang play in and run the play. Everyone of our plays have code words. We also can be the slowest team in America also. Don’t believe me? We just won our semifinal game against the number 1 team in the state who had the best defense I have ever seen on any level. They have 8 d1 players on defense. 4 are power 5 dudes. Their first d had given up 13 points all season and 33 points overall. Every team has been held under 100 yards all season. They beat us 42-0 in the regular season. We had one first down in that game. But Friday, we had a heck of a drive. We put together a 99 yard 2 foot and 11 inch drive for a TD. It took 21 plays and 10 and 1/2 minutes. At the end of the game, we got the ball on the 20 and drove it to the other 20 (60yards) in 2 minutes going on the ball to kick a game winning 37 yard FG as time expired. Won 10-7. This is awesome... love stories like this as an offensive guy... as defensive guy it gives me nightmares lol... we once had a 24 play over 11 min drive that ended in a FG... had 4 4th down conv on it... in that game we ran 72 plays to opponents 27... |
|
CoachSP
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212
|
Post by CoachSP on Nov 29, 2021 9:55:34 GMT -6
The same way that you practice for any adverse situation because adverse situations will come up. You'll probably need to be able to throw the ball at least a little. Even if you don't you need to be able to pick up the pace, play some "hurry-up". You cannot tell your kids “if…” EVER! Much less “if this doesnt work….” I understand their mindset and agree with it. You are what you are. You want to tell me they didnt have enough in the playbook? Ok, i wont argue with you. But i know just enough to this isnt a chalk war. I disagree. Some "if" situations don't ever come up, and sometimes they do. It is a game of "if". What if we get the ball with a lead and 4 minutes to go? What if we get the ball behind and there's 2 minutes to go? What if the other team starts taking advantage of the B gap bubble in our Defense? What if the other team starts completing out routes? etc, etc, etc. I don't have a problem telling the kids "if". Sometimes I tell them WHY we are calling certain things or WHY certain "if" situations are important. |
|
humble
Sophomore Member
Posts: 204
|
Post by humble on Nov 29, 2021 10:14:25 GMT -6
At what point do you decide to go to "plan B" ? When you put the offense together in the spring. Coachkeating nailed it. I mean, during the actual game. What dictates when you go to your plan b? What situation or point in the game? I know answers can vary. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 10:17:55 GMT -6
You cannot tell your kids “if…” EVER! Much less “if this doesnt work….” I understand their mindset and agree with it. You are what you are. You want to tell me they didnt have enough in the playbook? Ok, i wont argue with you. But i know just enough to this isnt a chalk war. I disagree. Some "if" situations don't ever come up, and sometimes they do. It is a game of "if". When we get the ball with a lead and 4 minutes to go? When we get the ball behind and there's 2 minutes to go? When the other team starts taking advantage of the B gap bubble in our Defense? When the other team starts completing out routes? etc, etc, etc. I don't have a problem telling the kids "if". Sometimes I tell them WHY we are calling certain things or WHY certain "when" situations are important. Fixed it for you. |
|
CoachSP
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212
|
Post by CoachSP on Nov 29, 2021 10:27:01 GMT -6
I disagree. Some "if" situations don't ever come up, and sometimes they do. It is a game of "if". When we get the ball with a lead and 4 minutes to go? When we get the ball behind and there's 2 minutes to go? When the other team starts taking advantage of the B gap bubble in our Defense? When the other team starts completing out routes? etc, etc, etc. I don't have a problem telling the kids "if". Sometimes I tell them WHY we are calling certain things or WHY certain "when" situations are important. Fixed it for you. Love the trolling. But if that was a serious response to my post, then we are saying the same thing and just talking semantics. The worst part of this job is semantics and the people that argue them. Thanks boss. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 10:32:27 GMT -6
Love the trolling. But if that was a serious response to my post, then we are saying the same thing and just talking semantics. The worst part of this job is semantics and the people that argue them. Thanks boss. if does not carry the same definition as when. If you want to call it semantics, though, ok, I agree. |
|
|
|
Post by blb on Nov 29, 2021 10:52:08 GMT -6
Because of the nature of our offense (Houston Veer Triple Option) we saw quite a few "Defenses of the Week."
So sometimes my Plan A was out the window after the first play.
Often wondered why I bothered to make out a Game Plan ("Call Sheet").
Told our kids "We may have to punt 2-3 times but we'll get them figured out and then we'll go!"
In its simplest form Plan A was to run, run, run until defense put enough people up there to stop it, and then we would throw, throw, throw (Plan B).
|
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Nov 29, 2021 11:08:19 GMT -6
So, proactively, what would Plan B entail in this situation?
|
|
|
|
Post by blb on Nov 29, 2021 11:30:02 GMT -6
So, proactively, what would Plan B entail in this situation? don't know if you were addressing that to me. But based on scenario fantom posted, it sounded like the coach-team in question was not prepared to go to a Plan B such as passing more. They were going to do what they do and if that wasn't good enough, like Grandma used to say, "Piss on it." In any two-hour offensive practice we spent about 40 minutes on throwing the ball (and protecting the passer). Now if the defense put enough people up there to stop the run and we couldn't, and we couldn't throw the ball either - Good for them, bad for us. Had to hope our defense shut them out and we could get a Safety or return a fumble-kick for TD (never won a game like that though). |
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Nov 29, 2021 11:38:41 GMT -6
So, proactively, what would Plan B entail in this situation? don't know if you were addressing that to me. But based on scenario fantom posted, it sounded like the coach-team in question was not prepared to go to a Plan B such as passing more. They were going to do what they do and if that wasn't good enough, like Grandma used to say, "Piss on it." In any two-hour offensive practice we spent about 40 minutes on throwing the ball (and protecting the passer). Now if the defense put enough people up there to stop the run and we couldn't, and we couldn't throw the ball either - Good for them, bad for us. Had to hope our defense shut them out and we could get a Safety or return a fumble-kick for TD (never won a game like that though).
No, it wasn't singling you out, coach. I'm just wondering what a Plan B would look like with the offense fantom was talking about. We ran SW at the 8-man level and I know what we did/would've done (hit slants and outs at 90%+) but I'm curious as to what the play calling looked like in this game.
|
|
|
|
Post by newhope on Nov 29, 2021 11:59:00 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won. I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed. After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time. I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships. How do you practice, “if this isnt working”? You ALWAYS practice "if this isn't working". No plan B, you're going to get beat in some games you shouldn't have. You got a game plan---but you better have something for 2 minutes, for 4 minutes, for when you're behind, for when you're ahead. It doesn't mean you have a completely different scheme, but you better have an answer. If you can't adjust to situations, you might as well stay home and have a beer cause the kids don't need you. |
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Nov 29, 2021 13:56:32 GMT -6
coachcb don't know if you were addressing that to me. But based on scenario fantom posted, it sounded like the coach-team in question was not prepared to go to a Plan B such as passing more. They were going to do what they do and if that wasn't good enough, like Grandma used to say, "Piss on it." In any two-hour offensive practice we spent about 40 minutes on throwing the ball (and protecting the passer). Now if the defense put enough people up there to stop the run and we couldn't, and we couldn't throw the ball either - Good for them, bad for us. Had to hope our defense shut them out and we could get a Safety or return a fumble-kick for TD (never won a game like that though).
No, it wasn't singling you out, coach. I'm just wondering what a Plan B would look like with the offense fantom was talking about. We ran SW at the 8-man level and I know what we did/would've done (hit slants and outs at 90%+) but I'm curious as to what the play calling looked like in this game.
Here's the game. You can't really see the slow pace that I was talking about since this has been edited. I watched a live feed, showing everything between plays and with a clock in the corner. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 14:11:14 GMT -6
How do you practice, “if this isnt working”? You ALWAYS practice "if this isn't working". No plan B, you're going to get beat in some games you shouldn't have. You got a game plan---but you better have something for 2 minutes, for 4 minutes, for when you're behind, for when you're ahead. It doesn't mean you have a completely different scheme, but you better have an answer. If you can't adjust to situations, you might as well stay home and have a beer cause the kids don't need you. But they didnt practice it, not only that week, but probably all season. And it worked out just fine. To the tune of the third or fourth round of the playoffs. And based on what i saw, that is as far as they were going. And I am not in disagreement with you, but answers mean different thing to different people. |
|
|
|
Post by coachcb on Nov 30, 2021 9:55:15 GMT -6
No, it wasn't singling you out, coach. I'm just wondering what a Plan B would look like with the offense fantom was talking about. We ran SW at the 8-man level and I know what we did/would've done (hit slants and outs at 90%+) but I'm curious as to what the play calling looked like in this game.
Here's the game. You can't really see the slow pace that I was talking about since this has been edited. I watched a live feed, showing everything between plays and with a clock in the corner.
I watched the first half and here's my takeaways:
1. They're clearly out-matched in quite a few positions and it doesn't seem like they game-planned well to account for that. I understand that can be difficult when you're running certain offenses. But, I can't see why you'd keep running IZ at a team when your OL is being taken 2 yards off of the ball.
2. There's a few catastrophic blocking mistakes that cost them in a big way. They miss a kick-out on a few Power and Counter plays that put them in a hole on 1st and 2nd down. Execution was certainly a factor in the loss.
3. It looks like they had the pieces for a Plan B (shifting to a twins look) but they didn't plan to take advantage of it. They pulled people of out the box in man-man coverage but that's as far as they went with it.
4. All and all, I think their Plan A might've kept them in the game if they executed well. But, a Plan B in terms of clock management and scheming would've been a good thing....
|
|
|
|
Post by newhope on Dec 3, 2021 9:11:00 GMT -6
You cannot tell your kids “if…” EVER! Much less “if this doesnt work….” I understand their mindset and agree with it. You are what you are. You want to tell me they didnt have enough in the playbook? Ok, i wont argue with you. But i know just enough to this isnt a chalk war. I disagree. Some "if" situations don't ever come up, and sometimes they do. It is a game of "if". What if we get the ball with a lead and 4 minutes to go? What if we get the ball behind and there's 2 minutes to go? What if the other team starts taking advantage of the B gap bubble in our Defense? What if the other team starts completing out routes? etc, etc, etc. I don't have a problem telling the kids "if". Sometimes I tell them WHY we are calling certain things or WHY certain "if" situations are important. It's not an active shooter drill. You don't have to tell them "if". You just prepare. Like you do everything else. You don't say "if it gets to be third down and long".....you teach what you're doing on 3rd and long. We practice 4 minutes. We tell them this is to bleed clock We practice 2 minutes. they know why You practice every contingency including plan B.....the word "if" doesn't have to come into it, it doesn't have to be a negative situation. Kids don't panic in 2 minute drill. It's what they prepare for and what they believe they know how to do well because they prepare. "If we're losing" doesn't come into it. What you are teaching is preparation....this happens, we do this....that happens, we do this. It's in the approach and the preparation. Always. |
|
CoachSP
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212
|
Post by CoachSP on Dec 3, 2021 9:29:26 GMT -6
I disagree. Some "if" situations don't ever come up, and sometimes they do. It is a game of "if". What if we get the ball with a lead and 4 minutes to go? What if we get the ball behind and there's 2 minutes to go? What if the other team starts taking advantage of the B gap bubble in our Defense? What if the other team starts completing out routes? etc, etc, etc. I don't have a problem telling the kids "if". Sometimes I tell them WHY we are calling certain things or WHY certain "if" situations are important. It's not an active shooter drill. You don't have to tell them "if". You just prepare. Like you do everything else. You don't say "if it gets to be third down and long".....you teach what you're doing on 3rd and long. We practice 4 minutes. We tell them this is to bleed clock We practice 2 minutes. they know why You practice every contingency including plan B.....the word "if" doesn't have to come into it, it doesn't have to be a negative situation. Kids don't panic in 2 minute drill. It's what they prepare for and what they believe they know how to do well because they prepare. "If we're losing" doesn't come into it. What you are teaching is preparation....this happens, we do this....that happens, we do this. It's in the approach and the preparation. Always. I won't discuss semantics. We are saying the exact same thing. Maybe the 2 or 4 minute drill was a bad example. With regards to everything else, I stick by it. I explain things to our team because I want them to know why we call things we call. The days of "don't question me" are long gone. I played in that era, but didn't coach in it. I like telling the kids why. And sometimes, that comes out as an "if" statement. Again, semantics. |
|
|
|
Post by newhope on Dec 3, 2021 9:56:25 GMT -6
It's not an active shooter drill. You don't have to tell them "if". You just prepare. Like you do everything else. You don't say "if it gets to be third down and long".....you teach what you're doing on 3rd and long. We practice 4 minutes. We tell them this is to bleed clock We practice 2 minutes. they know why You practice every contingency including plan B.....the word "if" doesn't have to come into it, it doesn't have to be a negative situation. Kids don't panic in 2 minute drill. It's what they prepare for and what they believe they know how to do well because they prepare. "If we're losing" doesn't come into it. What you are teaching is preparation....this happens, we do this....that happens, we do this. It's in the approach and the preparation. Always. I won't discuss semantics. We are saying the exact same thing. Maybe the 2 or 4 minute drill was a bad example. With regards to everything else, I stick by it. I explain things to our team because I want them to know why we call things we call. The days of "don't question me" are long gone. I played in that era, but didn't coach in it. I like telling the kids why. And sometimes, that comes out as an "if" statement. Again, semantics. Didn't mean to come across as disagreeing actually....more expanding on. |
|
