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Post by fantom on Nov 27, 2021 16:55:19 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won.
I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed.
After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time.
I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT
It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2021 17:06:48 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won. I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed. After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time. I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships. How do you practice, “if this isnt working”? |
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Post by fantom on Nov 27, 2021 17:24:23 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won. I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed. After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time. I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships. How do you practice, “if this isnt working”? The same way that you practice for any adverse situation because adverse situations will come up. You'll probably need to be able to throw the ball at least a little. Even if you don't you need to be able to pick up the pace, play some "hurry-up". |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2021 17:50:01 GMT -6
How do you practice, “if this isnt working”? The same way that you practice for any adverse situation because adverse situations will come up. You'll probably need to be able to throw the ball at least a little. Even if you don't you need to be able to pick up the pace, play some "hurry-up". You cannot tell your kids “if…” EVER! Much less “if this doesnt work….” I understand their mindset and agree with it. You are what you are. You want to tell me they didnt have enough in the playbook? Ok, i wont argue with you. But i know just enough to this isnt a chalk war. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 27, 2021 17:52:39 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won. I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed. After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time. I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships. I get that..it is a good question. At what point do you switch from what you gameplanned as your best stuff, to something that probably will make things much worse but might be the only chance? |
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Post by carookie on Nov 27, 2021 18:24:42 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won. I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed. After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time. I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships. I get that..it is a good question. At what point do you switch from what you gameplanned as your best stuff, to something that probably will make things much worse but might be the only chance? In most cases, when there is so little time left in the game that continuing with your first plan would not leave enough time for a comeback (assuming that it were to move with the same level of success that it had throughout the game). But I feel you on this, if you feel like you have a better chance of breaking an 80 yard run on trap, then you do of completing a couple of deep bombs, then you stick with the run. But then again this is coming from a guy who once said, "Plan B is to do Plan A better." |
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Post by fantom on Nov 27, 2021 18:53:22 GMT -6
I agree you need *something* for when the clock is against you. That doesn’t even mean you have to go 4 or 5 wide, no huddle, and start throwing the ball around in a completely different offense… but it does mean you get to the line a little quicker and do some things differently. Even if you’re a huddle team, it’s not that hard to just call the play fast, line up, and run it with some urgency. It’s also not hard to put in a “reload” call where you have them just sprint back to the line and run the same thing again to save 20-30 seconds. That's what I'm talking about. |
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Post by CS on Nov 28, 2021 7:20:18 GMT -6
I agree you need *something* for when the clock is against you. That doesn’t even mean you have to go 4 or 5 wide, no huddle, and start throwing the ball around in a completely different offense… but it does mean you get to the line a little quicker and do some things differently. Even if you’re a huddle team, it’s not that hard to just call the play fast, line up, and run it with some urgency. It’s also not hard to put in a “reload” call where you have them just sprint back to the line and run the same thing again to save 20-30 seconds. That's what I'm talking about. So you’re more complaining about the lack of urgency from the losing team than play selection? |
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 28, 2021 7:39:18 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won. I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed. After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time. I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships. I went to a playoff game a week ago and witnessed the same thing. At some point you have to look at it like this, not every coach can manage a big game. Team we went to see was undefeated in the reg season and had won a playoff game already, so they were a good team. They had an big running back who was used to bulldozing over everyone, an athletic and fast QB who could run and had a decent arm, and some decent receivers. Down 14-O going into the half with 55 seconds left, they took 30 seconds to run a dive and the a sweep to the short side of the field and then called TO with 5 seconds. Second half they stayed with the plan, went 3 and out and the opponent scored. Now you are down 3 possessions and you still dive, dive dive on and on. It was obvious the other team was better up front, and yet they never varied in their play calling. The final straw for me and I left was, down 3 scores in the late 3rd qtr they had a 4th and 5 on the opponent 45...and they PUNTED! You could see the entire sideline just deflate when he did that. Not every coach in the playoffs got there by being a great coach, sometimes talent and weaker opponents got you there. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2021 7:48:58 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won. I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed. After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time. I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships. I went to a playoff game a week ago and witnessed the same thing. At some point you have to look at it like this, not every coach can manage a big game. Team we went to see was undefeated in the reg season and had won a playoff game already, so they were a good team. They had an big running back who was used to bulldozing over everyone, an athletic and fast QB who could run and had a decent arm, and some decent receivers. Down 14-O going into the half with 55 seconds left, they took 30 seconds to run a dive and the a sweep to the short side of the field and then called TO with 5 seconds. Second half they stayed with the plan, went 3 and out and the opponent scored. Now you are down 3 possessions and you still dive, dive dive on and on. It was obvious the other team was better up front, and yet they never varied in their play calling. The final straw for me and I left was, down 3 scores in the late 3rd qtr they had a 4th and 5 on the opponent 45...and they PUNTED! You could see the entire sideline just deflate when he did that. Not every coach in the playoffs got there by being a great coach, sometimes talent and weaker opponents got you there. In the state semi’s? At least in my state, that stuff ends, for cinderella, ends in the 2nd round. For the team who has gotten every break, the schedule is easy, you are more talent than the super majority of your schedule team, That {censored} ends in the 3rd rd. You are not getting to state semi’s on luck and talent alone. Competence comes into play really in the 2nd rd. And if you are stumbling boob, you will get exposed badly in the third. |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 28, 2021 8:16:03 GMT -6
We are wing t and no one (literally) can run plays faster than us. We only do it occasionally, but we can run the entire offense on the ball and snap it as fast as humanly possible.
It is not hard. Just yell the dang play in and run the play. Everyone of our plays have code words.
We also can be the slowest team in America also.
Don’t believe me?
We just won our semifinal game against the number 1 team in the state who had the best defense I have ever seen on any level. They have 8 d1 players on defense. 4 are power 5 dudes. Their first d had given up 13 points all season and 33 points overall. Every team has been held under 100 yards all season. They beat us 42-0 in the regular season. We had one first down in that game.
But Friday, we had a heck of a drive. We put together a 99 yard 2 foot and 11 inch drive for a TD. It took 21 plays and 10 and 1/2 minutes.
At the end of the game, we got the ball on the 20 and drove it to the other 20 (60yards) in 2 minutes going on the ball to kick a game winning 37 yard FG as time expired. Won 10-7.
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Post by sweep26 on Nov 28, 2021 8:38:18 GMT -6
We are wing t and no one (literally) can run plays faster than us. We only do it occasionally, but we can run the entire offense on the ball and snap it as fast as humanly possible. It is not hard. Just yell the dang play in and run the play. Everyone of our plays have code words. We also can be the slowest team in the America also. Don’t believe me? We just won our semifinal game against the number 1 team in the state who had the best defense I have ever seen on any level. They have 8 d1 players on defense. 4 are power 5 dudes. Their first d had given up 13 points all season and 33 points overall. Every team has been held under 100 yards all season. They beat us 42-0 in the regular season. We had one first down in that game. But Friday, we had a heck of a drive. We put together a 99 yard 2 foot and 11 inch drive for a TD. It took 21 plays and 10 and 1/2 minutes. At the end of the game, we got the ball on the 20 and drove it to the other 20 (60yards) in 2 minutes going on the ball to kick a game winning 37 yard FG as time expired. Won 10-7. Congrats on that GREAT WIN!! I am very curious...After suffering that beat-down during the regular season, how did you get your kids to believe that they could beat that team in the Play-offs? |
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Post by morris on Nov 28, 2021 8:43:43 GMT -6
silkyice that’s great! I thought I remember reading on here you were having a rough season. Either way sounds like one heck of a job by you and your team. You need a plan B for sure and in some cases plan C. Sometimes that’s a scheme/package. Like others have said having a way to pick up the tempo is pretty easy and I would think standard for teams. It’s not really an if those doesn’t work. It’s just normal situational football. It’s like teaching the kids the opposite of bleeding the clock in 4 minute offense. The Auburn Bama game when the kid goes out of bounds instead of just falling down. I know that is a tough one and I don’t blame the kid. One a slightly different note I think when power run teams or teams like the wing-t start to go at a fast pace it can get really tough on a defense. It just feels different and even the pace is different than a HUNH passing team. It feels like you can get set faster and snap it faster.
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Post by jlenwood on Nov 28, 2021 9:00:13 GMT -6
I went to a playoff game a week ago and witnessed the same thing. At some point you have to look at it like this, not every coach can manage a big game. Team we went to see was undefeated in the reg season and had won a playoff game already, so they were a good team. They had an big running back who was used to bulldozing over everyone, an athletic and fast QB who could run and had a decent arm, and some decent receivers. Down 14-O going into the half with 55 seconds left, they took 30 seconds to run a dive and the a sweep to the short side of the field and then called TO with 5 seconds. Second half they stayed with the plan, went 3 and out and the opponent scored. Now you are down 3 possessions and you still dive, dive dive on and on. It was obvious the other team was better up front, and yet they never varied in their play calling. The final straw for me and I left was, down 3 scores in the late 3rd qtr they had a 4th and 5 on the opponent 45...and they PUNTED! You could see the entire sideline just deflate when he did that. Not every coach in the playoffs got there by being a great coach, sometimes talent and weaker opponents got you there. In the state semi’s? At least in my state, that stuff ends, for cinderella, ends in the 2nd round. For the team who has gotten every break, the schedule is easy, you are more talent than the super majority of your schedule team, That {censored} ends in the 3rd rd. You are not getting to state semi’s on luck and talent alone. Competence comes into play really in the 2nd rd. And if you are stumbling boob, you will get exposed badly in the third. It was regionals to get to the final 4. |
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Post by CS on Nov 28, 2021 9:03:03 GMT -6
We are wing t and no one (literally) can run plays faster than us. We only do it occasionally, but we can run the entire offense on the ball and snap it as fast as humanly possible. It is not hard. Just yell the dang play in and run the play. Everyone of our plays have code words. We also can be the slowest team in the America also. Don’t believe me? We just won our semifinal game against the number 1 team in the state who had the best defense I have ever seen on any level. They have 8 d1 players on defense. 4 are power 5 dudes. Their first d had given up 13 points all season and 33 points overall. Every team has been held under 100 yards all season. They beat us 42-0 in the regular season. We had one first down in that game. But Friday, we had a heck of a drive. We put together a 99 yard 2 foot and 11 inch drive for a TD. It took 21 plays and 10 and 1/2 minutes. At the end of the game, we got the ball on the 20 and drove it to the other 20 (60yards) in 2 minutes going on the ball to kick a game winning 37 yard FG as time expired. Won 10-7. 21 plays and 10 1/2 minutes is the greatest thing I’ve read in a long time |
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Post by silkyice on Nov 28, 2021 9:17:54 GMT -6
We are wing t and no one (literally) can run plays faster than us. We only do it occasionally, but we can run the entire offense on the ball and snap it as fast as humanly possible. It is not hard. Just yell the dang play in and run the play. Everyone of our plays have code words. We also can be the slowest team in the America also. Don’t believe me? We just won our semifinal game against the number 1 team in the state who had the best defense I have ever seen on any level. They have 8 d1 players on defense. 4 are power 5 dudes. Their first d had given up 13 points all season and 33 points overall. Every team has been held under 100 yards all season. They beat us 42-0 in the regular season. We had one first down in that game. But Friday, we had a heck of a drive. We put together a 99 yard 2 foot and 11 inch drive for a TD. It took 21 plays and 10 and 1/2 minutes. At the end of the game, we got the ball on the 20 and drove it to the other 20 (60yards) in 2 minutes going on the ball to kick a game winning 37 yard FG as time expired. Won 10-7. Congrats on that GREAT WIN!! I am very curious...After suffering that beat-down during the regular season, how did you get your kids to believe that they could beat that team in the Play-offs? Hope this link works. The article gets one thing wrong. It was a 21 play 10 plus minute drive. The confusion is from the fact that it started in the first quarter. But the article gets one thing right that corrects what I said earlier. Our last drive started with 4 plus minutes. So we took our time and we when were under 2 minutes left and had only moved it 20 yards is when we switched to hurry up. www.montgomeryindependent.com/sports/do-you-believe-in-miracles-ma-stuns-catholic-10-7/article_ed5b7e92-4f4f-11ec-ab21-4b887681ff3a.html?utm_campaign=blox&utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR08ll9ZmR3HiPf4RBYEYUHsXq9zVVDbw5Y9E1k6Fg4e75wwG5n1oZfgNugOne more thing, the td they had called back, the obvious hold happened right as we were going to sack the qb. The flag came out immediately and he then scrambles for two more seconds and completed the pass. Everyone in the stadium knew it wasn’t a td when it happened. The other side didn’t really even complain. When the ball was thrown, I actually said on the headset that I hopes this scores. The article doesn’t give that impression. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 28, 2021 14:04:35 GMT -6
That's what I'm talking about. So you’re more complaining about the lack of urgency from the losing team than play selection? Absolutely. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 28, 2021 17:08:31 GMT -6
So you’re more complaining about the lack of urgency from the losing team than play selection? Absolutely. Deep down, do you think it was a lack of urgency, or a recognition early on that they would not prevail and thus wanted to keep it 27-3 instead of 42-3 or 42-10? |
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Post by CS on Nov 28, 2021 18:02:05 GMT -6
Deep down, do you think it was a lack of urgency, or a recognition early on that they would not prevail and thus wanted to keep it 27-3 instead of 42-3 or 42-10? This is kinda what I was thinking honestly. He said that he thought the team that lost was well coached. Maybe they knew they were outmatched and managed the bleeding |
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Post by fantom on Nov 28, 2021 18:12:19 GMT -6
Deep down, do you think it was a lack of urgency, or a recognition early on that they would not prevail and thus wanted to keep it 27-3 instead of 42-3 or 42-10? That might have been it when it was 27-3 but they did the same thing when it was 20-3 in the 3rd quarter. |
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Post by coachkeating33 on Nov 28, 2021 18:53:14 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won. I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed. After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time. I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships. they wouldnt have won anyway most likely so why have a plan b? get good at plan A and maximize your wins--overall it will work out with more wins |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 28, 2021 18:57:07 GMT -6
This may be more of a vent then a question. I want to emphasize that this isn't sour grapes because "my" TEAM (One that I used to coach) won. I just watched a HS playoff game, the regional finals (State quarter-finals). The final was 27-3 and watching the losing team drove me crazy. They were a run-heavy single-wing team and they never showed any urgency. I starting watching in the 3rd quarter with the score 20-3. It wasn't that they continued to run the ball, but that they played at a very slow pace. They huddled every play, walking slowly to the huddle. Each play took about 30 seconds off of the clock, which almost never stopped since they never passed. After the final TD they continued to play at the same pace. After getting the ball with about 10 minutes left they went on a methodical drive that ate up the remaining time. I know the coach. He does a great job. I love power football and the running game. I understand playing within your philosophy BUT It's the playoffs. To me, you have to have a Plan B, a way to win, if you want to win championships. they wouldnt have won anyway most likely so why have a plan b? get good at plan A and maximize your wins--overall it will work out with more wins Seems like a team in the quarters is probably ok in that dept. Just my take Also- in football, all wins aren’t equal. That is probably something that should be considered |
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Post by coachkeating33 on Nov 28, 2021 19:32:06 GMT -6
plan b means you have to practice plan b...which means you arent as good at plan A.....so no plan b!!!! just do plan A....if you lose you lose
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Post by morris on Nov 28, 2021 20:07:37 GMT -6
plan b means you have to practice plan b...which means you arent as good at plan A.....so no plan b!!!! just do plan A....if you lose you lose I once had someone tell me safety blankets were bad. After buying in I agreed. You can’t have one foot in and one foot out. With that said you need plans for different conditions. 4 min offense Behind with 2 minutes or so in a game Backed up late in a game with various score factors Down by 1 point late and the opponent driving and unable to stop them And the list goes on. I get believe in what you do and live with it. You just need to make sure what you believe in and install has answers/procedures. I don’t think any of us want our players to lose a game because we failed to prepare and/or check all the boxes. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 28, 2021 21:23:57 GMT -6
plan b means you have to practice plan b...which means you arent as good at plan A.....so no plan b!!!! just do plan A....if you lose you lose How diverse do you think the coaches here are insinuating plan b is going to be??? |
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Post by kcbazooka on Nov 28, 2021 21:59:03 GMT -6
I once worked for a coach who used a man defense exclusively. We got beat by a team whose best receiver was plain out better than our best defensive back. We got beat and the coach’s reaction was if our best got beat by their best there was nothing we could do about it. I thought that was asinine. Plan B - maybe a man with safety help would have given us a better chance to win.
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Post by 44dlcoach on Nov 28, 2021 22:23:06 GMT -6
You should always have a plan for the inherent weaknesses of your base scheme. No excuses for that imo.
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Post by silkyice on Nov 29, 2021 5:53:14 GMT -6
You should always have a plan for the inherent weaknesses of your base scheme. No excuses for that imo. THIS |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2021 6:38:01 GMT -6
You should always have a plan for the inherent weaknesses of your base scheme. No excuses for that imo. What if he didnt view his offense as having a weakness? What if that is his version of perfect football? i dont agree with the coach but i understand and respect it. |
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Post by coachkeating33 on Nov 29, 2021 7:16:20 GMT -6
plan b means you have to practice plan b...which means you arent as good at plan A.....so no plan b!!!! just do plan A....if you lose you lose How diverse do you think the coaches here are insinuating plan b is going to be??? I agree with plan b if plan b is already something you do |
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