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Post by option1 on Oct 11, 2021 6:42:03 GMT -6
We have a player that wants to quit citing mental health issues. Say's he "can't even watch the game right now" and it's best for him if he quits. In today's society I get all that and will listen when the boy wants to talk. However, he wants to address the team and I am concerned that given this players status it may start a trend. We are bad, we are fragile, and we are in the toughest part of our season. Part of me doesn't want to let the player address the team. Thoughts?
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Post by blb on Oct 11, 2021 6:45:33 GMT -6
We have a player that wants to quit citing mental health issues. Say's he "can't even watch the game right now" and it's best for him if he quits. In today's society I get all that and will listen when the boy wants to talk. However, he wants to address the team and I am concerned that given this players status it may start a trend. We are bad, we are fragile, and we are in the toughest part of our season. Part of me doesn't want to let the player address the team. Thoughts? WHY does he want to address the team, i.e. what would he say to them? Not an expert but one's mental health seems like it would be an intensely private-individual issue to be dealt with by professionals. Don't see how "address(ing) the team" would benefit him or them. |
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Post by option1 on Oct 11, 2021 6:56:11 GMT -6
We have a player that wants to quit citing mental health issues. Say's he "can't even watch the game right now" and it's best for him if he quits. In today's society I get all that and will listen when the boy wants to talk. However, he wants to address the team and I am concerned that given this players status it may start a trend. We are bad, we are fragile, and we are in the toughest part of our season. Part of me doesn't want to let the player address the team. Thoughts? WHY does he want to address the team, i.e. what would he say to them? Not an expert but one's mental health seems like it would be an intensely private-individual issue to be dealt with by professionals. Don't see how "address(ing) the team" would benefit him or them. Those are my thoughts. He says he feels like he should just say something. |
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Post by mrjvi on Oct 11, 2021 7:16:19 GMT -6
I would not let him address the team. The most I'd do is tell the team that so and so is done because he has some issues he needs to deal with. and treat him well when you see him. That's it IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2021 7:17:12 GMT -6
Has he said what, exactly, his “mental health” issues are? Is it actually football related stuff, like being worn down and tired of the grind, or is there other stuff going on outside of football?
Out of respect for the kid, I’d ask him what it is that he wants to say to the team and tell you need him to clear it with you first. Explain what you just told us: as a coach, you are concerned because you feel the team is in a delicate spot right now, so you have to be careful and look after what’s best for the team. Then you could maybe work with him to put together a little short statement that is ok.
The possibility is always going to be that he might go off-script when you let him talk or the other kids might steer things off the rails. If that is something you are concerned about, remind him that he’ll still see these guys at school and you can relay an approved message to the team for him.
I would not let him address the team until he can more clearly express what his “mental health issues” are and what he wants to say.
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Post by Defcord on Oct 11, 2021 7:40:19 GMT -6
I would not let him address the team in a team function. There’s a thousand ways to do it in school and on social media.
I would wish him the best and refer him to the counselor. Mental health is a serious issue and if he needs help that is where he can get it.
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Post by chi5hi on Oct 11, 2021 7:43:30 GMT -6
He wants attention. He wants to address the team so he can get a "POOR ME"!
Don't play into this. Have him turn in his gear, wish him well, then get back to the season.
You and the staff are there for the team, and he's no longer part of it.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 11, 2021 8:59:34 GMT -6
He wants attention. He wants to address the team so he can get a "POOR ME"! Don't play into this. Have him turn in his gear, wish him well, then get back to the season. You and the staff are there for the team, and he's no longer part of it. My first thought was attention seeking as well. Its like when someone makes a longwinded post on social media explaining that they are leaving social media |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2021 9:29:08 GMT -6
He wants attention. He wants to address the team so he can get a "POOR ME"! Don't play into this. Have him turn in his gear, wish him well, then get back to the season. You and the staff are there for the team, and he's no longer part of it. My first thought was attention seeking as well. Its like when someone makes a longwinded post on social media explaining that they are leaving social media It may well be this. In fact, it’s likely to be this. However, the culture and rules kids are playing by how are different from what they used to be. Simone Biles was celebrated for quitting the Olympics during the competition over “mental health” so a lot of kids now think that’s how it should be done. I’ve actually worked in mental health the past couple of years on an adolescent psych ward. The pandemic, stress, and other weirdness has taken a pretty dramatic toll on a lot of kids’ mental health, to the point where suicide attempts, drug use, and self-harming behavior have exploded. Girls are more likely to get help (and start to question their gender) , while boys tend to act out in ways that get them in trouble. Keep in mind that a lot of kids have lost family members, had their grades drop, or been isolated from their friends and family extensively (meaning their main socialization is coming from social media algorithms that can be very detrimental to mental health), plus their parents are stressed and often struggling to hold it together or be parents as their own irritability and worries drag them down. I hate the current social media fixation on labeling anything and everything “a trauma response,” but the bottom line is that everybody’s been traumatized to some extent or another—some very severely. Because of my experience, I wouldn’t be too cynical about the kid’s motives until you talk to him and find out more. That doesn’t mean you let him do a big performance in the locker room as he walks away, but it does mean you show some respect for him and his situation while trying to figure out the best course to take from here. I would absolutely make sure he gets referred to a counselor ASAP. If he quits, that’s up to him, but don’t approach it with cynicism until he gives reason to believe it is all for attention. Even if the kid wants attention, that still indicates a problem somewhere if this is the method he’s taking to get it. |
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Post by coachbsting on Oct 11, 2021 10:58:54 GMT -6
Agree with the above.
U know this kid has he talked to can he talk to his folks about what’s going on? I don’t think you should let him address the team (burnout like enthusiasm is contagious) but you should tell the team you both agreed he should split and you wish him well. I think I would also want to know besides football stuff (losing/ practices being hard) was it something in the programs control that added to the mental stress can you change it without compromising the program.
And then you have to make sure he has talked to the school counselor even if you have to walk him down there yourself. And you need to follow any other protocols your school has for these types of issues.
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Post by chi5hi on Oct 11, 2021 12:17:35 GMT -6
I am from a generation that was taught...when you start something, finish it, see it all the way through. After that you can evaluate the experience for yourself.
Seeing school "counselors" is just a means to get reenforcement for attention. Just another participation trophy kid.
There are way too many of those and not enough maturing young men and women graduating from High School. It's our fault for coddling them. What we're doing now is building a generation of politically correct BUSSIES.
Tell him to turn in his gear...and don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out.
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Post by coachmoore42 on Oct 11, 2021 12:25:00 GMT -6
Let him do a written statement, that you could work with him writing maybe, that you will read to the team. If he truly has a mental health issue that is making him quit, then I don't see where getting up in front of the full team will help with that issue.
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Post by 19delta on Oct 11, 2021 12:25:18 GMT -6
You don't owe this kid any kind of public forum. I would tell the kid that you are sorry to be losing him but wish him the best and tell him your door is always open. I would also make sure to follow up with your administration, school mental health professionals, and the parents.
But I would not allow him to address the team formally under any circumstance.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2021 12:36:14 GMT -6
I am from a generation that was taught...when you start something, finish it, see it all the way through. After that you can evaluate the experience for yourself. Seeing school "counselors" is just a means to get reenforcement for attention. Just another participation trophy kid. There are way too many of those and not enough maturing young men and women graduating from High School. It's our fault for coddling them. What we're doing now is building a generation of politically correct BUSSIES. Tell him to turn in his gear...and don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out. You say that… but suicide risks and attempts are very real. For basic decency reasons as well as liability ones, you don’t want to be the guy who just blew a kid off when he told you he was struggling and then find out he’s committed suicide or done something crazy to escape whatever he is going through. |
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Post by chi5hi on Oct 11, 2021 13:25:15 GMT -6
I am from a generation that was taught...when you start something, finish it, see it all the way through. After that you can evaluate the experience for yourself. Seeing school "counselors" is just a means to get reenforcement for attention. Just another participation trophy kid. There are way too many of those and not enough maturing young men and women graduating from High School. It's our fault for coddling them. What we're doing now is building a generation of politically correct BUSSIES. Tell him to turn in his gear...and don't let the door hit you in the butt on your way out. You say that… but suicide risks and attempts are very real. For basic decency reasons as well as liability ones, you don’t want to be the guy who just blew a kid off when he told you he was struggling and then find out he’s committed suicide or done something crazy to escape whatever he is going through. This is what I'm talking about. Not being a coach...being a PC babysitter. I'm not a physician nor am I a licensed "counselor". If you tell a kid to go and talk to a Minister or a Priest, you'll get zinged for bringing religion into the school. All PC nonsense! We're supposed to teach young men and women to compete in a sport and learn to work as a team. They carry this lesson into adulthood (which is only 1 or 2 years away). This kid doesn't want to be a team member. So out he goes...and in the good ol' days...on his butt. It's time to pop the nipple out of his mouth...and stop sending them to "counsellors". Counsellors just tell him "POOR ME". They just continue to reenforce the Wussification of the American male. So this kid has problems. So do I. I need to field a TEAM...and he isn't part of that. The poor boy wants to be cuddled... You know...quitters are very, very good at what they do. They are the most proficient people in the world. They are better at what they do than the most accomplished surgeon, engineer, or any other real-live grown up man. You can find them living in any skid row "community", and they're real good at that. Anyone else needs to...before he knocks on my office door...GET A HAIRCUT! |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 11, 2021 17:02:47 GMT -6
Kids are not stupid. They see what is going on in society and know that citing mental health is a get out of jail free card. Kid pulls the mental health card and you can't say anything or you're a dick at the very least. Look at Simone Biles. She couldn't compete at the Olympics because of mental health, but she sure can go on a tour of the US flipping about to make a few million dollars (that's more of a crotchety old man rant than pertinent to your situation).
No way on earth you let this kid total to the team.
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 11, 2021 17:29:17 GMT -6
I would say both of the following are true:
1) Mental health issues are real and as professionals in education, we should so what we can to look out for the well being of our students and players.
2) Some kids likely use it an excuse
To me, I would want to err on the side of looking out for the people in #1 even if it means some kids find a way to get away with things by using #2.
All that said, I would lean toward not allowing him address the team unless I was very certain of what he was going to say.
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Post by NC1974 on Oct 11, 2021 17:36:43 GMT -6
He wants attention. He wants to address the team so he can get a "POOR ME"! Don't play into this. Have him turn in his gear, wish him well, then get back to the season. You and the staff are there for the team, and he's no longer part of it. Coach, I would be concerned about letting him address the team as well. But regarding the rest of your post, you might be right, but you also might be wrong. As coaches/educators, I think we need to take claims of mental health concerns very seriously. As I'm sure the op already did, I would want to make sure his parents, counselor, possibly school psychologist are in the loop on this. Both because it's the appropriate thing to do but also to cover your own rear end. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 11, 2021 18:12:15 GMT -6
Kids are not stupid. They see what is going on in society and know that citing mental health is a get out of jail free card. Kid pulls the mental health card and you can't say anything or you're a dick at the very least. Look at Simone Biles. She couldn't compete at the Olympics because of mental health, but she sure can go on a tour of the US flipping about to make a few million dollars (that's more of a crotchety old man rant than pertinent to your situation). No way on earth you let this kid total to the team. Just a point of fact, I think the media really misrepresented the "mental health" aspect of Simon Biles. I would liken her situation much more to a golfer that had the yips , Steve Sax not being able to throw to first, or a catcher not being able to throw back to the pitcher It was a loss of proprioceptive skills and awareness, not "i am depressed". The big difference being that with Steve Sax, the worst case scenario is a ball in the 1st base dugout. In Ms. Biles's case, it could have been a life altering or ending injury. She took her self out of competition because at that time, she was not one of the top gymnasts on the squad. And @coacharnold is right in that depending on the laws/policies in your district, regardless of what the personal feelings are, a coach could VERY MUCH get his but in sling (potential civil and maybe even criminal penalties) if things go sideways and proper procedure wasn't followed. Now on to the actual point of the post, none of that means the kid deserves to or is entitled to address the team. |
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Post by larrymoe on Oct 11, 2021 19:10:24 GMT -6
Kids are not stupid. They see what is going on in society and know that citing mental health is a get out of jail free card. Kid pulls the mental health card and you can't say anything or you're a dick at the very least. Look at Simone Biles. She couldn't compete at the Olympics because of mental health, but she sure can go on a tour of the US flipping about to make a few million dollars (that's more of a crotchety old man rant than pertinent to your situation). No way on earth you let this kid total to the team. Just a point of fact, I think the media really misrepresented the "mental health" aspect of Simon Biles. I would liken her situation much more to a golfer that had the yips , Steve Sax not being able to throw to first, or a catcher not being able to throw back to the pitcher It was a loss of proprioceptive skills and awareness, not "i am depressed". The big difference being that with Steve Sax, the worst case scenario is a ball in the 1st base dugout. In Ms. Biles's case, it could have been a life altering or ending injury. She took her self out of competition because at that time, she was not one of the top gymnasts on the squad. And @coacharnold is right in that depending on the laws/policies in your district, regardless of what the personal feelings are, a coach could VERY MUCH get his but in sling (potential civil and maybe even criminal penalties) if things go sideways and proper procedure wasn't followed. Now on to the actual point of the post, none of that means the kid deserves to or is entitled to address the team. I don't think you do anything more than tell the kid "That's your choice. Thank you for playing what you did. Turn your gear in Thursday." Then, forward the concerns of mental health to whomever is above you that deals with it. It is no longer your issue in any way. Absolutely NO reason to play into it. And, as far as Simone Biles, fine. Substitute her with the female tennis player who doesn't want to talk to media because it gives her mental health issues, but will still do interviews with the company she has a personal contract with that pays her for interviews. |
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Post by MICoach on Oct 12, 2021 8:05:52 GMT -6
You say that… but suicide risks and attempts are very real. For basic decency reasons as well as liability ones, you don’t want to be the guy who just blew a kid off when he told you he was struggling and then find out he’s committed suicide or done something crazy to escape whatever he is going through. This is what I'm talking about. Not being a coach...being a PC babysitter. I'm not a physician nor am I a licensed "counselor". If you tell a kid to go and talk to a Minister or a Priest, you'll get zinged for bringing religion into the school. All PC nonsense! We're supposed to teach young men and women to compete in a sport and learn to work as a team. They carry this lesson into adulthood (which is only 1 or 2 years away). This kid doesn't want to be a team member. So out he goes...and in the good ol' days...on his butt. It's time to pop the nipple out of his mouth...and stop sending them to "counsellors". Counsellors just tell him "POOR ME". They just continue to reenforce the Wussification of the American male. So this kid has problems. So do I. I need to field a TEAM...and he isn't part of that. The poor boy wants to be cuddled... You know...quitters are very, very good at what they do. They are the most proficient people in the world. They are better at what they do than the most accomplished surgeon, engineer, or any other real-live grown up man. You can find them living in any skid row "community", and they're real good at that. Anyone else needs to...before he knocks on my office door...GET A HAIRCUT! I bet you're a lot of fun at parties |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 12, 2021 8:54:01 GMT -6
My two cents: 1. No, don't allow him to address the team. I don't care what the kid's intentions are: he's a distraction that no team needs. I'm not minimizing his potential mental health issues; he's just choosing the wrong platform to express them on. 2. Email his parents, the administration, school counselors (etc) and tell them what the kid has shared with you. Hopefully they'll take it seriously and address it with him, one way or another. If it isn't serious (i.e. he's not suicidal), then it's a CYA situation. If it is serious, it's out in the open and can be handled.
On another note, the first time we ignore someone claiming to have a mental health issue might be the last time they're able to do so. Take each claim seriously because the potential ramifications for not doing so are enormous. You don't have to be the kids' shrink (don't even try; you're not qualified) but notify the parents and the chain of command of the issue.
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Post by silkyice on Oct 12, 2021 9:19:20 GMT -6
My two cents: 1. No, don't allow him to address the team. I don't care what the kid's intentions are: he's a distraction that no team needs. I'm not minimizing his potential mental health issues; he's just choosing the wrong platform to express them on. 2. Email his parents, the administration, school counselors (etc) and tell them what the kid has shared with you. Hopefully they'll take it seriously and address it with him, one way or another. If it isn't serious (i.e. he's not suicidal), then it's a CYA situation. If it is serious, it's out in the open and can be handled.
On another note, the first time we ignore someone claiming to have a mental health issue might be the last time they're able to do so. Take each claim seriously because the potential ramifications for not doing so are enormous. You don't have to be the kids' shrink (don't even try; you're not qualified) but notify the parents and the chain of command of the issue.
This is by far the best post on this thread. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2021 13:53:13 GMT -6
I would say both of the following are true: 1) Mental health issues are real and as professionals in education, we should so what we can to look out for the well being of our students and players. 2) Some kids likely use it an excuse To me, I would want to err on the side of looking out for the people in #1 even if it means some kids find a way to get away with things by using #2. All that said, I would lean toward not allowing him address the team unless I was very certain of what he was going to say. And that is the way the actual mental Heath field handles these things because the risk (suicide or something else horrible) of choosing #2 is worse than the risk of choosing #1 (a manipulative little $hit plays you for a fool until you wise up). The way that psychiatrists and mental health professionals would handle this is to take the expressions seriously but with limits and boundaries in place on what a kid can and cannot expect from those around him. If, after you have worked with the kid and it seems they they are “just doing it for attention” (it’s usually pretty obvious because they start escalating the behavior more often and with less stimulus to trigger it, as if it is a drug to them) then you look at why the heck the kid would even want to do something weird like this for attention in the first place. Then a doctor would probably put them on some kind of med while a therapist would, ideally, work with the kid on dealing with stressors and learning alternate strategies to use. Well over 75% of the kids we saw in the psych hospital when I was there were not making up mental health issues for attention, but often they were accused of that and had been treated as such for years of hell before anyone ever took them seriously. Now, in a typical school, with kids wanting to be social media famous now, you do see a lot of kids being dramatic and citing “mental health” as an excuse without knowing what any of that stuff really looks like. However, it can be hard to tell and the risks of letting a kid who’s struggling fall through the cracks because no one took the time to look any further into what’s going on leads to some truly horrible things to happen to kids every day. In all of this… getting back to thr OP’s question, I would probably entertain allowing the kid to speak if I knew more about what was going on, but I’d be less likely to actually allow him to do so unless I was confident and comfortable with what I expect him to say. He doesn’t deserve a forum, but just getting him to talk to you about what he wants to say may lead somewhere that at least allows you to help the kid take more appropriate steps in his life. You’re not a therapist and won’t be expected to deliver therapy, but stuff like that seems to be a natural part of a coach/mentor relationships IMO. But no… he does not deserve a public forum and should not expect it. |
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Post by coachcb on Oct 12, 2021 14:32:01 GMT -6
If a potential mental health issue is handled properly, a kid who is being manipulative won't gain anything from it. They'll simply be evaluated by a professional who will determine that they're full of chit. Their time and their parent's time will be wasted and it's done. If the kid truly has an issue, they'll gain EVERYTHING from it being handled properly. These situations are cut and dry from an education/coaching perspective; report the issue to the parents and powers-that-be and move on. Provide what little support that falls within your professional scope and pass it up the chain. And, you do so because there's nothing more that you can do. Educators/coaches that try to handle a potentially mentally ill young adult are monkeys with grenades; something is going to blow up. I was a "mental health counselor" in a facility similar to blockandtackle. That title was fluff; I was trained to do one of two things; deescalate a violent/suicidal kid or physically restrain them. Even in that role, I provided basic emotional support and then shipped the kids off to their therapists and shrinks. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2021 15:02:26 GMT -6
After he has packed his stuff up and returned it, he is reminded he needs clearance from a doctor of that sort to return to the team. Even if he returns, we will not do anything to cause him stress or duress, i.e reps, plays in a game or coach him.
This is stuff all covered with parents and players in a pre season meeting
It is actually easier to quit and come back.
It is easier to ger arrested and come back.
let me say it is never the kid who is playing
going to class
respectful of coaches
a form of parenting at home.
it is always the kid:
who wont show up to lift or we have to chase down to lift
he is borderline eligible.
he has a problem behaving everywhere
And he is not playing
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Post by macdiiddy on Oct 12, 2021 17:36:13 GMT -6
I will say I'm largely disheartened by the large amount of voices saying he should just suck it up. I work for Child Protective Services as my day job and have to respond to the aftermath of children who end up killing themselves after parents did not take their ideations seriously. Not saying the kid is suicidal, but again the feeling that the kid is just being soft instead of directing him to the proper services makes me feel like this is going to be the new "concussion".
Where people will literally have to die or get their pants sued off of them, then legislators will then get involved.
As far as addressing the team goes, that can be done many ways and is debatable. Mental Health really shouldn't be.
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Post by coachsticks on Oct 12, 2021 17:55:38 GMT -6
You say that… but suicide risks and attempts are very real. For basic decency reasons as well as liability ones, you don’t want to be the guy who just blew a kid off when he told you he was struggling and then find out he’s committed suicide or done something crazy to escape whatever he is going through. This is what I'm talking about. Not being a coach...being a PC babysitter. I'm not a physician nor am I a licensed "counselor". If you tell a kid to go and talk to a Minister or a Priest, you'll get zinged for bringing religion into the school. All PC nonsense! We're supposed to teach young men and women to compete in a sport and learn to work as a team. They carry this lesson into adulthood (which is only 1 or 2 years away). This kid doesn't want to be a team member. So out he goes...and in the good ol' days...on his butt. It's time to pop the nipple out of his mouth...and stop sending them to "counsellors". Counsellors just tell him "POOR ME". They just continue to reenforce the Wussification of the American male. So this kid has problems. So do I. I need to field a TEAM...and he isn't part of that. The poor boy wants to be cuddled... You know...quitters are very, very good at what they do. They are the most proficient people in the world. They are better at what they do than the most accomplished surgeon, engineer, or any other real-live grown up man. You can find them living in any skid row "community", and they're real good at that. Anyone else needs to...before he knocks on my office door...GET A HAIRCUT! Unreal. |
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Post by 19delta on Oct 12, 2021 18:28:17 GMT -6
I will say I'm largely disheartened by the large amount of voices saying he should just suck it up. I work for Child Protective Services as my day job and have to respond to the aftermath of children who end up killing themselves after parents did not take their ideations seriously. Not saying the kid is suicidal, but again the feeling that the kid is just being soft instead of directing him to the proper services makes me feel like this is going to be the new "concussion". Where people will literally have to die or get their pants sued off of them, then legislators will then get involved. As far as addressing the team goes, that can be done many ways and is debatable. Mental Health really shouldn't be. I don't think anyone is really advocating that the kid "suck it up". Almost every post in the thread says to refer the kid to mental health professionals but to not give him a public forum. Denying the kid the ability to address his former teammates is not telling him to "suck it up". |
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oaks
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Post by oaks on Oct 13, 2021 3:29:24 GMT -6
Not enough valid information. A lot of self declared experts on mental health issues. Without having enough information. Is that the way these „experts“ prepare for their games? Developing an game plan without collecting enough informations?
If he has serious, maybe life threatening problems: would you be the guy to tell him to shut up? Why does the NFL supports campaigns, addressing these issues?
Go and get professional support. You are not an expert in this field. Even if it is a fake, this professional will have a way for you to deal with it. You are a coach. And this a game you don’t want to lose! Go find a professional that will help you, the player and your team.
That is true strength. And you are sending a message: I don’t have the the answer, but my promise is that I will do every thing that I can do to help my players. Even I am not shure. I do care for you!
Even if the professional tells you: “he is faking” it will still work out for you.
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