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Post by fantom on Sept 9, 2021 11:46:15 GMT -6
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 9, 2021 12:33:54 GMT -6
What are the nine most terrifying words in the English language.....
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Post by dblwngr on Sept 9, 2021 16:10:38 GMT -6
I read the article but can some explain to me what the main reasoning is for legislature to take over state athletics?
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Post by blb on Sept 9, 2021 16:19:23 GMT -6
I read the article but can some explain to me what the main reasoning is for legislature to take over state athletics? The answer to all questions: "Money."
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Post by Defcord on Sept 9, 2021 18:17:06 GMT -6
I read the article but can some explain to me what the main reasoning is for legislature to take over state athletics? The answer to all questions: "Money." And can probably sprinkle in a heavy dose of power as well.
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Post by 19delta on Sept 9, 2021 18:23:23 GMT -6
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coachjax90
Freshmen Member
Spring ball/offseason learning time
Posts: 70
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Post by coachjax90 on Sept 10, 2021 6:00:53 GMT -6
The NCHSAA was mishandling money big time and throwing down some sanctions that were pretty ridiculous. Last I heard, the NCHSAA will remain but the state will audit them and have input. They are also forcing private schools out of public school ball which I think is great. It needed to happen, too much unfair advantage. Hopefully the powers that be don't ruin it.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 10, 2021 6:34:53 GMT -6
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 10, 2021 6:38:08 GMT -6
Hopefully the powers that be don't ruin it.
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coachjax90
Freshmen Member
Spring ball/offseason learning time
Posts: 70
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Post by coachjax90 on Sept 10, 2021 6:41:46 GMT -6
Hopefully the powers that be don't ruin it. I know. Famous last words.
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Post by bobgoodman on Sept 10, 2021 21:35:50 GMT -6
Wouldn't it be simpler to forbid the public schools to belong to the association, and to set up one of their own?
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Post by newhope on Sept 21, 2021 10:23:09 GMT -6
I'll give you the skinny on this later when I have time.
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Post by newhope on Sept 22, 2021 12:33:48 GMT -6
So here's the skinny: 1. This is a the case of a few members of the legislature who are unhappy primarily with the current director over their own personal and political disagreements 2. The NCHSAA has a lot of money. It hasn't been mismanaged, it isn't missing. Money hasn't been spent on questionable items. It just hasn't been spent. They have a lot of it. Politicians are using "money" to make it sound like someone's being dishonest. They aren't. 3. People always complain about these associations. I do myself. There is another thread on here about Georgia. Politicians again trying to use that without actually solving complaints. 4. One powerful politician doesn't like it because a team in his district was kept out of the playoffs because they violated a rule about how many players during a season can engage in a fight (like it or not, the rule has really limited fights). 5. Some are angry over cheerleaders and a Trump sign and the action the director took on that. 6. Some of them are unhappy over Covid protocols. 7. The director is an African-American woman. Some see her as arrogant and difficult to deal with. (You can take 5, 6 and 7 anyway you want, but this action is largely coming from very red areas of NC.) 8. Many believe it would go away if she did. She was near retirement. She'll probably hang on to fight this. 9. They reportedly have their own good old boy they want to put in charge. 10. The ADs, coaches association, principals---name any school group--and they all support NCHSAA and oppose this attempt to dismantle it.. 11. I can't imagine anything worse than politicians in charge of high school sports
There are a few other background things which I'm not at liberty to post about since it was shown me in confidence. Some of it ties together the political parts of this and others outside the legislature who are involved.
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 22, 2021 19:08:04 GMT -6
So here's the skinny: 1. This is a the case of a few members of the legislature who are unhappy primarily with the current director over their own personal and political disagreements 2. The NCHSAA has a lot of money. It hasn't been mismanaged, it isn't missing. Money hasn't been spent on questionable items. It just hasn't been spent. They have a lot of it. Politicians are using "money" to make it sound like someone's being dishonest. They aren't. 3. People always complain about these associations. I do myself. There is another thread on here about Georgia. Politicians again trying to use that without actually solving complaints. 4. One powerful politician doesn't like it because a team in his district was kept out of the playoffs because they violated a rule about how many players during a season can engage in a fight (like it or not, the rule has really limited fights). 5. Some are angry over cheerleaders and a Trump sign and the action the director took on that. 6. Some of them are unhappy over Covid protocols. 7. The director is an African-American woman. Some see her as arrogant and difficult to deal with. (You can take 5, 6 and 7 anyway you want, but this action is largely coming from very red areas of NC.) 8. Many believe it would go away if she did. She was near retirement. She'll probably hang on to fight this. 9. They reportedly have their own good old boy they want to put in charge. 10. The ADs, coaches association, principals---name any school group--and they all support NCHSAA and oppose this attempt to dismantle it.. 11. I can't imagine anything worse than politicians in charge of high school sports There are a few other background things which I'm not at liberty to post about since it was shown me in confidence. Some of it ties together the political parts of this and others outside the legislature who are involved. we've seen this down south, and it's mostly like you said. NOBODY likes the referee, and the these associations are the referees. Ours have been taken to court by member institutions because those member institutions have been unhappy that the rules they agreed upon were broken by themselves.
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Post by coachks on Sept 23, 2021 9:13:29 GMT -6
So here's the skinny: 1. This is a the case of a few members of the legislature who are unhappy primarily with the current director over their own personal and political disagreements 2. The NCHSAA has a lot of money. It hasn't been mismanaged, it isn't missing. Money hasn't been spent on questionable items. It just hasn't been spent. They have a lot of it. Politicians are using "money" to make it sound like someone's being dishonest. They aren't. 3. People always complain about these associations. I do myself. There is another thread on here about Georgia. Politicians again trying to use that without actually solving complaints. 4. One powerful politician doesn't like it because a team in his district was kept out of the playoffs because they violated a rule about how many players during a season can engage in a fight (like it or not, the rule has really limited fights). 5. Some are angry over cheerleaders and a Trump sign and the action the director took on that. 6. Some of them are unhappy over Covid protocols. 7. The director is an African-American woman. Some see her as arrogant and difficult to deal with. (You can take 5, 6 and 7 anyway you want, but this action is largely coming from very red areas of NC.) 8. Many believe it would go away if she did. She was near retirement. She'll probably hang on to fight this. 9. They reportedly have their own good old boy they want to put in charge. 10. The ADs, coaches association, principals---name any school group--and they all support NCHSAA and oppose this attempt to dismantle it.. 11. I can't imagine anything worse than politicians in charge of high school sports There are a few other background things which I'm not at liberty to post about since it was shown me in confidence. Some of it ties together the political parts of this and others outside the legislature who are involved. we've seen this down south, and it's mostly like you said. NOBODY likes the referee, and the these associations are the referees. Ours have been taken to court by member institutions because those member institutions have been unhappy that the rules they agreed upon were broken by themselves. I'm going to disagree with that last part - "the rules they agreed upon were broken by themselves" - that's not really how they NCHSAA operates. Or atleast, in practice - that's not really how it operates. See the NCHSAA says everything is agreed upon by "The Membership" O.k., but the people who actually interact with the rules and punishment are not "The Membership" that votes on them. Big picture, "The Membership" means principals - who change constantly, are often uninvolved / unqualified / uninterested in Athletics. They sent out a simple survey asking principals to vote to add a new classification and they could barely get enough responses. So the idea that the are rules that are "agreed upon" is silly. Most of the people who vote on the rules don't have the same position in 2-3 years. Athletic Directors in NC are only slightly more stable year to year. The biggest issue I have (and others, besides the greedy money thing which is a lot) is that the punishments don't fit the crime and there is no appeals. Every season we have teams kicked out of the playoffs for paperwork. In multiple sports. Suspend coaches. Fine schools. Punish the ADs (which is where almost all of the paperwork issues stem from). Instead, the NCHSAA just bans the team from the playoffs, poof - season over. There's no appeal. This isn't a rare thing, every year has teams removed in multiple sports for simple eligibility issues - usually because of the AD not filing out eligibility correctly. It's almost always self-reported and innocent mistakes. The argument they give is "the rules are the rules" - but yet we have an entire legal system built on judges interpreting cases, arbitration, mediation and all sorts of context involving unique situations. If all that matters is "the rules are the rules", what do we even need an association for anyway? They don't provide any services to school. They don't investigate anything, nobody has ever heard of them actually stopping a transfer or ineligible player except by self-report... they make a bracket for each sport? Ok, find a software program and save everybody a lot of time and energy.
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Post by fantom on Sept 23, 2021 10:33:24 GMT -6
See the NCHSAA says everything is agreed upon by "The Membership" O.k., but the people who actually interact with the rules and punishment are not "The Membership" that votes on them. Big picture, "The Membership" means principals - who change constantly, are often uninvolved / unqualified / uninterested in Athletics. They sent out a simple survey asking principals to vote to add a new classification and they could barely get enough responses. So the idea that the are rules that are "agreed upon" is silly. Most of the people who vote on the rules don't have the same position in 2-3 years. Athletic Directors in NC are only slightly more stable year to year. So, you think the answer is to give the organization to the legislature, a group of lawyers and car salesmen whose membership also changes every few years?
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Post by coachks on Sept 23, 2021 11:02:50 GMT -6
See the NCHSAA says everything is agreed upon by "The Membership" O.k., but the people who actually interact with the rules and punishment are not "The Membership" that votes on them. Big picture, "The Membership" means principals - who change constantly, are often uninvolved / unqualified / uninterested in Athletics. They sent out a simple survey asking principals to vote to add a new classification and they could barely get enough responses. So the idea that the are rules that are "agreed upon" is silly. Most of the people who vote on the rules don't have the same position in 2-3 years. Athletic Directors in NC are only slightly more stable year to year. So, you think the answer is to give the organization to the legislature, a group of lawyers and car salesmen whose membership also changes every few years? Not at all. I was just addressing why changing the NCHSAA has support. The characterization that it’s a bunch of greedy politicians with political motives (re: money, race and trans issues) is not the full story. Like most things I hope they find a middle ground. The NCHSAA has no oversight, but plays around with (what is ultimately) tax payer money. I think they can and should have oversight by the DPI that they do not currently have. I think that being directly under the General Assembly could potentially be worse than the current status quo. However, as a football coach, it’s possible that going under the GA will be worse for sports as a whole, but offer some benefits to football.
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Post by fantom on Sept 23, 2021 14:22:21 GMT -6
So, you think the answer is to give the organization to the legislature, a group of lawyers and car salesmen whose membership also changes every few years? Not at all. I was just addressing why changing the NCHSAA has support. The characterization that it’s a bunch of greedy politicians with political motives (re: money, race and trans issues) is not the full story. Like most things I hope they find a middle ground. The NCHSAA has no oversight, but plays around with (what is ultimately) tax payer money. I think they can and should have oversight by the DPI that they do not currently have. I think that being directly under the General Assembly could potentially be worse than the current status quo. However, as a football coach, it’s possible that going under the GA will be worse for sports as a whole, but offer some benefits to football. Be careful what you wish for.
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Post by newhope on Sept 24, 2021 15:52:16 GMT -6
So, you think the answer is to give the organization to the legislature, a group of lawyers and car salesmen whose membership also changes every few years? Not at all. I was just addressing why changing the NCHSAA has support. The characterization that it’s a bunch of greedy politicians with political motives (re: money, race and trans issues) is not the full story. Like most things I hope they find a middle ground. The NCHSAA has no oversight, but plays around with (what is ultimately) tax payer money. I think they can and should have oversight by the DPI that they do not currently have. I think that being directly under the General Assembly could potentially be worse than the current status quo. However, as a football coach, it’s possible that going under the GA will be worse for sports as a whole, but offer some benefits to football. It ain't the full story---but it's a bunch of greedy politicians that have personal agendas--not all are around race and transgender. But if you want to pretend that a local school being kept out of the playoffs, race, transgender and the Trump sign had nothing to do with any of this, go ahead. Some of us know about the emails that went from some of these guys to some of the money guys in NC politics who got involved because of those issues--not to help high school sports. That's why the legislature is involved. Period. Again, the state coaches, ADs, principals and superintendants ALL are opposed to what the legislature is doing. The other stuff that coaches complain about is what made them think they could get away with fulfilling their agendas. They're not in this to help kids or schools. You're sadly mistaken if you think that's what's at play here. Just what playing around have they done other than not spending the money---much of which is locked down and can't be spent? They gave back over $4 million to schools last year. Should they have been doing that? Yep. But they did that BEFORE this nonsense started. They didn't steal it. They didn't misspend it. They didn't waste it. So, are you in the small minority who thinks they should be dissolved? If not, it's up to the membership to fix it---not the legislature. (and just who in DPI do you think knows diddly squat about high school sports? They struggle with curriculum issues--although they DO have some level of control over NCHSAA). Can they do better? Sure they can. Lots better in a lot of areas. But not by letting these guys take it over.
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Post by coachks on Sept 27, 2021 11:04:39 GMT -6
Not at all. I was just addressing why changing the NCHSAA has support. The characterization that it’s a bunch of greedy politicians with political motives (re: money, race and trans issues) is not the full story. Like most things I hope they find a middle ground. The NCHSAA has no oversight, but plays around with (what is ultimately) tax payer money. I think they can and should have oversight by the DPI that they do not currently have. I think that being directly under the General Assembly could potentially be worse than the current status quo. However, as a football coach, it’s possible that going under the GA will be worse for sports as a whole, but offer some benefits to football. It ain't the full story---but it's a bunch of greedy politicians that have personal agendas--not all are around race and transgender. But if you want to pretend that a local school being kept out of the playoffs, race, transgender and the Trump sign had nothing to do with any of this, go ahead. Some of us know about the emails that went from some of these guys to some of the money guys in NC politics who got involved because of those issues--not to help high school sports. That's why the legislature is involved. Period. Again, the state coaches, ADs, principals and superintendants ALL are opposed to what the legislature is doing. The other stuff that coaches complain about is what made them think they could get away with fulfilling their agendas. They're not in this to help kids or schools. You're sadly mistaken if you think that's what's at play here. Just what playing around have they done other than not spending the money---much of which is locked down and can't be spent? They gave back over $4 million to schools last year. Should they have been doing that? Yep. But they did that BEFORE this nonsense started. They didn't steal it. They didn't misspend it. They didn't waste it. So, are you in the small minority who thinks they should be dissolved? If not, it's up to the membership to fix it---not the legislature. (and just who in DPI do you think knows diddly squat about high school sports? They struggle with curriculum issues--although they DO have some level of control over NCHSAA). Can they do better? Sure they can. Lots better in a lot of areas. But not by letting these guys take it over. Did you even read my reply? No, the legislature should not take it over. First thing I said was "not at all" do I want that to happen. A lot of it is about schools being kept out of the playoffs. That is what I spent the majority of my post talking about. Is it probably a selfish motive by some powerful individuals? Yes. But that doesn't mean the NCHSAA wasn't wrong. You say that the majority of state coaches do not want the legislature to take over -that's true. I am with them. But having been in a few different states and working on a staff with guys from out of state, the NCHSAA is by far the least popular state athletic association any of us has been a part of. Other than HighschoolOT, I don't see a ton of people running to their defense either (a website that they have a direct connection with via James Alverson. Not exactly an unbias source). My biggest hope is that it serves as a wakeup call for the NCHSAA, and they reform some of their policies - including things like actually listening to the coaches associations. For example, last spring when the entire lax association asked for the season to NOT overlap with football, and NOT to be played in January (being a spring sport and all) and the NCHSAA says... nah, we made a decision. So kids had to make decisions about what sports to play, and schools had to manage 4 different teams playing on 1 field... so we can get to the actual spring season and watch the game fields and practice fields sit empty.
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Post by jlenwood on Sept 27, 2021 16:42:45 GMT -6
Relax fellas...I mean who can name anything the govt screwed up, local-state or federal. It's gonna work out just swell.
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 27, 2021 17:19:50 GMT -6
See the NCHSAA says everything is agreed upon by "The Membership" O.k., but the people who actually interact with the rules and punishment are not "The Membership" that votes on them. Big picture, "The Membership" means principals - who change constantly, are often uninvolved / unqualified / uninterested in Athletics. They sent out a simple survey asking principals to vote to add a new classification and they could barely get enough responses. So the idea that the are rules that are "agreed upon" is silly. Most of the people who vote on the rules don't have the same position in 2-3 years. Athletic Directors in NC are only slightly more stable year to year. So, you think the answer is to give the organization to the legislature, a group of lawyers and car salesmen whose membership also changes every few years? Hey, we live in a unique time in history where the majority seems to be behind the notion that the government is failing us, so let's make it bigger!
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Post by newhope on Oct 1, 2021 12:00:08 GMT -6
It ain't the full story---but it's a bunch of greedy politicians that have personal agendas--not all are around race and transgender. But if you want to pretend that a local school being kept out of the playoffs, race, transgender and the Trump sign had nothing to do with any of this, go ahead. Some of us know about the emails that went from some of these guys to some of the money guys in NC politics who got involved because of those issues--not to help high school sports. That's why the legislature is involved. Period. Again, the state coaches, ADs, principals and superintendants ALL are opposed to what the legislature is doing. The other stuff that coaches complain about is what made them think they could get away with fulfilling their agendas. They're not in this to help kids or schools. You're sadly mistaken if you think that's what's at play here. Just what playing around have they done other than not spending the money---much of which is locked down and can't be spent? They gave back over $4 million to schools last year. Should they have been doing that? Yep. But they did that BEFORE this nonsense started. They didn't steal it. They didn't misspend it. They didn't waste it. So, are you in the small minority who thinks they should be dissolved? If not, it's up to the membership to fix it---not the legislature. (and just who in DPI do you think knows diddly squat about high school sports? They struggle with curriculum issues--although they DO have some level of control over NCHSAA). Can they do better? Sure they can. Lots better in a lot of areas. But not by letting these guys take it over. Did you even read my reply? No, the legislature should not take it over. First thing I said was "not at all" do I want that to happen. A lot of it is about schools being kept out of the playoffs. That is what I spent the majority of my post talking about. Is it probably a selfish motive by some powerful individuals? Yes. But that doesn't mean the NCHSAA wasn't wrong. You say that the majority of state coaches do not want the legislature to take over -that's true. I am with them. But having been in a few different states and working on a staff with guys from out of state, the NCHSAA is by far the least popular state athletic association any of us has been a part of. Other than HighschoolOT, I don't see a ton of people running to their defense either (a website that they have a direct connection with via James Alverson. Not exactly an unbias source). My biggest hope is that it serves as a wakeup call for the NCHSAA, and they reform some of their policies - including things like actually listening to the coaches associations. For example, last spring when the entire lax association asked for the season to NOT overlap with football, and NOT to be played in January (being a spring sport and all) and the NCHSAA says... nah, we made a decision. So kids had to make decisions about what sports to play, and schools had to manage 4 different teams playing on 1 field... so we can get to the actual spring season and watch the game fields and practice fields sit empty. And I loudly and continuously called them out over the lacrosse mess. There are all sorts of problems that need to be addressed--but not by this crowd of politicians. The best example IS a politician wanting to take them down because a team in his district didn't make the playoffs. None of these politicians give a crap about the lacrosse mess. None of them is going to fix the charter/private mess. None of them is going to get NCHSAA to listen to coaches associations--and none of them are going to, either. Perhaps we actually agree---there are things that need to be fixed but these clowns aren't the ones to do it.
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Post by coachwoodall on Oct 31, 2021 7:11:55 GMT -6
any further action?
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Post by newhope on Nov 8, 2021 12:19:41 GMT -6
Word is the legislative leaders are waiting until the uproar dies down and that they have a plan to move quickly to get what they want. In the meantime, the NCHSAA has turned into basically a do nothing, don't do anything to stir the pot organization offering little guidance on any of the issues that might upset the legislature. If they were going to be this ineffectual, they should have just all resigned and let someone else take over---not the legislature and politicians, of course--but somebody with a backbone. Half of the ones pushing this just want leadership to change more than anything else and would probably settle down if it did.
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