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Post by 19delta on Sept 1, 2021 16:01:42 GMT -6
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Post by larrymoe on Sept 1, 2021 17:15:08 GMT -6
That kid obviously didn't need school...
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Post by coachwoodall on Sept 2, 2021 6:05:41 GMT -6
ESPN is not the one that got duped. ESPN only broadcasts these games. There is another company that goes about putting all these nationally televised games together. Now does ESPN ultimately have responsibility for what they show, yes but Paragon goes all the leg work and then ESPN sells the ad space and broadcasts. I don’t buy this at all. ESPN is responsible for what makes it on the air. They use these organizations because they want someone to blame when they mess up and accidentally highlight a coach that has a bad past or a player involved in shady business or schedule a game with a fake school. They are at very least negligent in the matter if they don’t have to take direct blame. It’s all just funny to me though. No one really got hurt that I’ve heard so its just silliness. I'm not saying that ESPN isn't ultimately responsible for what is aired on it's programs. All I was stating is that ESPN doesn't do any of the leg work; they just show up and broadcast the game. The schools have little to no interaction with ESPN other than any pregame interviews. I've dealt with the company that compiles these games on multiple occasions, so I know how these games are created, set up, and broadcasted. It has been a few years since the last time and there may have been lots of turnover, but the individuals at Paragon we dealt with did a good job. Or at least they used to. |
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Post by pistolwhipped on Sept 2, 2021 6:36:31 GMT -6
People are killing ESPN??
They played Archbishop Hoban just a week prior! How are SCHOOLS in OHIO that are actually well respected getting duped.
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Post by wingtol on Sept 2, 2021 8:58:13 GMT -6
People are killing ESPN?? They played Archbishop Hoban just a week prior! How are SCHOOLS in OHIO that are actually well respected getting duped. Not sure those schools are getting duped, probably looking for easy wins. ESPN pushed them as a team with tons of D1 players etc on a national broadcast. Other schools on their schedule surely have a hard time finding indy games and grab them as an easy win. Doubt they care about stars and commits they just want a win. |
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Post by pistolwhipped on Sept 2, 2021 10:44:43 GMT -6
People are killing ESPN?? They played Archbishop Hoban just a week prior! How are SCHOOLS in OHIO that are actually well respected getting duped. Not sure those schools are getting duped, probably looking for easy wins. ESPN pushed them as a team with tons of D1 players etc on a national broadcast. Other schools on their schedule surely have a hard time finding indy games and grab them as an easy win. Doubt they care about stars and commits they just want a win. I'd agree in many cases but in Ohio they most definitely care about if the opponent will win too. AH went and played #1 Team in NJ the next week. Their playoff system rewards playing good teams. That's why it doesn't make sense. Bishop Syc was like 0-6 the year before. |
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Post by tog on Sept 2, 2021 10:59:46 GMT -6
football coaches across america should unite to not play img and to not play anyone that plays them
them and espn are the root of this evil
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Post by Defcord on Sept 2, 2021 11:01:01 GMT -6
I don’t buy this at all. ESPN is responsible for what makes it on the air. They use these organizations because they want someone to blame when they mess up and accidentally highlight a coach that has a bad past or a player involved in shady business or schedule a game with a fake school. They are at very least negligent in the matter if they don’t have to take direct blame. It’s all just funny to me though. No one really got hurt that I’ve heard so its just silliness. I'm not saying that ESPN isn't ultimately responsible for what is aired on it's programs. All I was stating is that ESPN doesn't do any of the leg work; they just show up and broadcast the game. The schools have little to no interaction with ESPN other than any pregame interviews. I've dealt with the company that compiles these games on multiple occasions, so I know how these games are created, set up, and broadcasted. It has been a few years since the last time and there may have been lots of turnover, but the individuals at Paragon we dealt with did a good job. Or at least they used to. I get what you are saying. And you have more experience in it all than I do so I will default to your experience. My point is that ESPN does or should be vetting the major players in the games that they are putting on television. Their resources are virtually unlimited so there is no excuse when this stuff happens. Granted it will still happen, but I think ESPN and Disney are ultimately responsible for the final product. |
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Post by Defcord on Sept 2, 2021 11:02:46 GMT -6
football coaches across america should unite to not play img and to not play anyone that plays them them and espn are the root of this evil I understand why you are frustrated, but it is such a small portion of all of the high school players that I am fine just letting them do their thing and not worrying about it. Actually, there is a kid on our schedule, I wish IMG would recruit so I don't have to figure out a way to stop him. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2021 11:24:30 GMT -6
football coaches across america should unite to not play img and to not play anyone that plays them them and espn are the root of this evil Why? Unlike Bishop Sycamore, which apparently is an absolutely train wreck of an "institution" (in quotes on purpose), IMG is very up front about what they are and what their purpose is. To develop young talent in the hopes of representing them in the future. Their roots go back to the late '70s, which is longer than almost anyone here has been coaching. Whether they are a good thing for kids and their families is a different question, but you can say the exact same thing about families going out to eat at Burger King. I would argue that at least by being upfront, IMG is not on the same level as other places that have a seemingly similar history of "talent acquisition" but compete side by side with regular high schools in their respective states. |
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Post by tog on Sept 2, 2021 11:49:01 GMT -6
football coaches across america should unite to not play img and to not play anyone that plays them them and espn are the root of this evil Why? Unlike Bishop Sycamore, which apparently is an absolutely train wreck of an "institution" (in quotes on purpose), IMG is very up front about what they are and what their purpose is. To develop young talent in the hopes of representing them in the future. Their roots go back to the late '70s, which is longer than almost anyone here has been coaching. Whether they are a good thing for kids and their families is a different question, but you can say the exact same thing about families going out to eat at Burger King. I would argue that at least by being upfront, IMG is not on the same level as other places that have a seemingly similar history of "talent acquisition" but compete side by side with regular high schools in their respective states. them and the whole recruiting hype train star system bull is ruining the game from the foundation |
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Post by nicku on Sept 2, 2021 12:00:57 GMT -6
Why? Unlike Bishop Sycamore, which apparently is an absolutely train wreck of an "institution" (in quotes on purpose), IMG is very up front about what they are and what their purpose is. To develop young talent in the hopes of representing them in the future. Their roots go back to the late '70s, which is longer than almost anyone here has been coaching. Whether they are a good thing for kids and their families is a different question, but you can say the exact same thing about families going out to eat at Burger King. I would argue that at least by being upfront, IMG is not on the same level as other places that have a seemingly similar history of "talent acquisition" but compete side by side with regular high schools in their respective states. them and the whole recruiting hype train star system bull is ruining the game from the foundation Holy out of touch... The first all-american football team was named in '89. Not 1989, either: 1889. I wonder if anyone back then thought that kind of attention on certain kids was bad for the game. |
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Post by bulldogsdc on Sept 2, 2021 12:18:52 GMT -6
them and the whole recruiting hype train star system bull is ruining the game from the foundation Holy out of touch... The first all-american football team was named in '89. Not 1989, either: 1889. I wonder if anyone back then thought that kind of attention on certain kids was bad for the game. You got a link to for the roster of the 1889 High School All American team? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2021 12:26:06 GMT -6
Why? Unlike Bishop Sycamore, which apparently is an absolutely train wreck of an "institution" (in quotes on purpose), IMG is very up front about what they are and what their purpose is. To develop young talent in the hopes of representing them in the future. Their roots go back to the late '70s, which is longer than almost anyone here has been coaching. Whether they are a good thing for kids and their families is a different question, but you can say the exact same thing about families going out to eat at Burger King. I would argue that at least by being upfront, IMG is not on the same level as other places that have a seemingly similar history of "talent acquisition" but compete side by side with regular high schools in their respective states. them and the whole recruiting hype train star system bull is ruining the game from the foundation Coach, with all respect here: Billy Cannon was told The Governor of Louisiana had State Police ready to apprehend him on a suspended misdemeanor charge from 1955 if he left his town to make an official visit to Tulane in 1956. Oklahoma and Texas had coaches LIVING in Philadelphia Mississippi in 1981 to recruit Marcus Dupree. Jimmy Clausen pulled up to the CFB Hall of fame in a limo to announce he was attending ND 15 years ago. Terrell Pryor had a press conference to announce that he would hold a later press conference to make his announcement in 2008. Same year that Kevin Hart (not the comedian) announced he was signing with Cal even though he had no offers. The recruiting craziness has been around for a while. While I do agree with you that ESPN and other sports media outlets have sadly filled a market for recruiting news (and made recruiting its own thing, barely attached to the sport) and that combined with social media addiction has brought around the "blessed to receive" trends, I don't know if that is ruining the game. I would suggest that coaches and year long football are doing more to ruin the game than IMG academy. |
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Post by wingtol on Sept 2, 2021 12:34:53 GMT -6
Not sure those schools are getting duped, probably looking for easy wins. ESPN pushed them as a team with tons of D1 players etc on a national broadcast. Other schools on their schedule surely have a hard time finding indy games and grab them as an easy win. Doubt they care about stars and commits they just want a win. I'd agree in many cases but in Ohio they most definitely care about if the opponent will win too. AH went and played #1 Team in NJ the next week. Their playoff system rewards playing good teams. That's why it doesn't make sense. Bishop Syc was like 0-6 the year before. I'm in PA close to Ohio and know their playoff points system. Beating a bad team doesn't do much but it's better than not playing a game I guess. Alot of the private school in Ohio near us play independent schedules so getting games isn't always easy too. |
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Post by tog on Sept 2, 2021 13:26:20 GMT -6
them and the whole recruiting hype train star system bull is ruining the game from the foundation Holy out of touch... The first all-american football team was named in '89. Not 1989, either: 1889. I wonder if anyone back then thought that kind of attention on certain kids was bad for the game. I look at it as out of touch if one doesn't see all the recruiting scams and hype bullcorn and fake camps that just take people's money because they think johnny gonna get a skolllaship as bad things for the game. |
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Post by tog on Sept 2, 2021 13:28:05 GMT -6
them and the whole recruiting hype train star system bull is ruining the game from the foundation Coach, with all respect here: Billy Cannon was told The Governor of Louisiana had State Police ready to apprehend him on a suspended misdemeanor charge from 1955 if he left his town to make an official visit to Tulane in 1956. Oklahoma and Texas had coaches LIVING in Philadelphia Mississippi in 1981 to recruit Marcus Dupree. Jimmy Clausen pulled up to the CFB Hall of fame in a limo to announce he was attending ND 15 years ago. Terrell Pryor had a press conference to announce that he would hold a later press conference to make his announcement in 2008. Same year that Kevin Hart (not the comedian) announced he was signing with Cal even though he had no offers. The recruiting craziness has been around for a while. While I do agree with you that ESPN and other sports media outlets have sadly filled a market for recruiting news (and made recruiting its own thing, barely attached to the sport) and that combined with social media addiction has brought around the "blessed to receive" trends, I don't know if that is ruining the game. I would suggest that coaches and year long football are doing more to ruin the game than IMG academy. I went to and played at SMU. IMG is a cancer being spread by the very things you said about recruiting craziness. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2021 13:52:30 GMT -6
Coach, with all respect here: Billy Cannon was told The Governor of Louisiana had State Police ready to apprehend him on a suspended misdemeanor charge from 1955 if he left his town to make an official visit to Tulane in 1956. Oklahoma and Texas had coaches LIVING in Philadelphia Mississippi in 1981 to recruit Marcus Dupree. Jimmy Clausen pulled up to the CFB Hall of fame in a limo to announce he was attending ND 15 years ago. Terrell Pryor had a press conference to announce that he would hold a later press conference to make his announcement in 2008. Same year that Kevin Hart (not the comedian) announced he was signing with Cal even though he had no offers. The recruiting craziness has been around for a while. While I do agree with you that ESPN and other sports media outlets have sadly filled a market for recruiting news (and made recruiting its own thing, barely attached to the sport) and that combined with social media addiction has brought around the "blessed to receive" trends, I don't know if that is ruining the game. I would suggest that coaches and year long football are doing more to ruin the game than IMG academy. I went to and played at SMU. IMG is a cancer being spread by the very things you said about recruiting craziness. Coach..we will just have to agree to disagree here. IMG isn't "spreading" are they? They aren't now fielding 2 or 3 different national level teams are they? Coach, IMG had 2 of the top 100 2020 signees (according to Rivals..which is irrelevant and I think recruiting lists are foolish but does facilitate this discussion) So did St. John Bosco in California. It isn't as if the IMG football program is growing into a galactic evil super power taking all of the best football players in the country. I think IMG is much more transparent and much less nefarious than many of the Division III and NAIA schools that recruit in a style that rivals predatory financial lending. In fact I would bet that IMG probably has more kids that you WOULDN'T want on a team (Helicopter or Bulldozer parents with fat wallets) than most realize. |
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Post by tog on Sept 2, 2021 14:03:14 GMT -6
I went to and played at SMU. IMG is a cancer being spread by the very things you said about recruiting craziness. Coach..we will just have to agree to disagree here. IMG isn't "spreading" are they? They aren't now fielding 2 or 3 different national level teams are they? Coach, IMG had 2 of the top 100 2020 signees (according to Rivals..which is irrelevant and I think recruiting lists are foolish but does facilitate this discussion) So did St. John Bosco in California. It isn't as if the IMG football program is growing into a galactic evil super power taking all of the best football players in the country. I think IMG is much more transparent and much less nefarious than many of the Division III and NAIA schools that recruit in a style that rivals predatory financial lending. In fact I would bet that IMG probably has more kids that you WOULDN'T want on a team (Helicopter or Bulldozer parents with fat wallets) than most realize. I didn't mean there were going to be more IMG's, I mean it is an example of how jacked up things are. Maybe a poor analogy on my part. And you are darn right I wouldn't want those kids on my team. In fact, If i was a college guy, I wouldn't recruit there. Plenty of other places to mine where the kids and parents haven't sold their soul to 5 star scam clown world. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2021 14:26:12 GMT -6
Coach..we will just have to agree to disagree here. IMG isn't "spreading" are they? They aren't now fielding 2 or 3 different national level teams are they? Coach, IMG had 2 of the top 100 2020 signees (according to Rivals..which is irrelevant and I think recruiting lists are foolish but does facilitate this discussion) So did St. John Bosco in California. It isn't as if the IMG football program is growing into a galactic evil super power taking all of the best football players in the country. I think IMG is much more transparent and much less nefarious than many of the Division III and NAIA schools that recruit in a style that rivals predatory financial lending. In fact I would bet that IMG probably has more kids that you WOULDN'T want on a team (Helicopter or Bulldozer parents with fat wallets) than most realize. I didn't mean there were going to be more IMG's, I mean it is an example of how jacked up things are. Maybe a poor analogy on my part. And you are darn right I wouldn't want those kids on my team. In fact, If i was a college guy, I wouldn't recruit there. Plenty of other places to mine where the kids and parents haven't sold their soul to 5 star scam clown world. But coach, the concept of IMG has been around since 1978- started as a Tennis Academy. I am not suggesting that things aren't crazy. I am simply saying that I don't believe IMG isn't contributing to it. |
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Post by tog on Sept 2, 2021 14:32:48 GMT -6
I didn't mean there were going to be more IMG's, I mean it is an example of how jacked up things are. Maybe a poor analogy on my part. And you are darn right I wouldn't want those kids on my team. In fact, If i was a college guy, I wouldn't recruit there. Plenty of other places to mine where the kids and parents haven't sold their soul to 5 star scam clown world. But coach, the concept of IMG has been around since 1978- started as a Tennis Academy. I am not suggesting that things aren't crazy. I am simply saying that I don't believe IMG isn't contributing to it. it's ok I am an extremist was pissed when Texas let two private schools in our league Hate the aau still love ya brotha |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 2, 2021 15:35:13 GMT -6
I'm surprised we're not talking about St. Frances Academy in this thread... A "high school" with 180 kids in it competing at the national level...
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2021 16:03:08 GMT -6
I'm surprised we're not talking about St. Frances Academy in this thread... A "high school" with 180 kids in it competing at the national level... John Curtis Christian School and Evangel Christian Academy in Louisiana didn't have many more when they won their mythical national championships I think there is a substantial difference between the questions raised by well run football powers and Bishop Sycamore (which is anything but a football power). The latter doesn't appear to be a school as much as it appears to be a scam. |
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Post by tog on Sept 2, 2021 18:29:06 GMT -6
I'm surprised we're not talking about St. Frances Academy in this thread... A "high school" with 180 kids in it competing at the national level... John Curtis Christian School and Evangel Christian Academy in Louisiana didn't have many more when they won their mythical national championships I think there is a substantial difference between the questions raised by well run football powers and Bishop Sycamore (which is anything but a football power). The latter doesn't appear to be a school as much as it appears to be a scam. I despise those places also just sayin |
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 2, 2021 18:42:54 GMT -6
John Curtis Christian School and Evangel Christian Academy in Louisiana didn't have many more when they won their mythical national championships I think there is a substantial difference between the questions raised by well run football powers and Bishop Sycamore (which is anything but a football power). The latter doesn't appear to be a school as much as it appears to be a scam. I despise those places also just sayin Are they any better than say West Monroe HS who also won a national championship with questionable transfers as well as instituting a district wide hold back program (a second 8th grade year) during their zenith before it was outlawed? I am pretty sure that people in other parts of the country could point out similar programs, both public and private, that seem to operate a bit "differently" than how people believe or assume a HS football program operates. |
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Post by wingtol on Sept 3, 2021 5:16:38 GMT -6
At the upper echelon of HS football it has become a business sadly. Just like any other entity as the money started flowing people started trying to get their piece of the pie. We'll see more and more of these places begin to pop up as the money becomes more and more.
From many threads on here and just looking around our state I fear in many places football is transforming into a big school only sport. The heart and soul of high school football, the smaller places that usually have 30-40-50 kids on the team are struggling. Won't be long till we see lots of co-ops or just the bigger schools able to field teams.
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Post by coachd5085 on Sept 3, 2021 5:55:26 GMT -6
At the upper echelon of HS football it has become a business sadly. Just like any other entity as the money started flowing people started trying to get their piece of the pie. We'll see more and more of these places begin to pop up as the money becomes more and more. From many threads on here and just looking around our state I fear in many places football is transforming into a big school only sport. The heart and soul of high school football, the smaller places that usually have 30-40-50 kids on the team are struggling. Won't be long till we see lots of co-ops or just the bigger schools able to field teams. Some of those issues are at the feet of the coaching profession sadly. I remember creating a thread about how the British national soccer organization was pushing that the younger ages of youth soccer in their country quit keeping score. This was for maybe ages 8-9 and under, and the idea was that it would foster skill development as well as alleviate some of the (man made) pressures on coaches who could then focus on increasing numbers etc. My post was met universally with jeers and snide remarks, suggesting that doing the same for US football was akin to woosification of America and communism and blah blah blah. The truth is though, that concept of "you gotta keep score or it is sissified" or "If you don't keep score, what is the point" etc naturally leads to a division of haves and have nots in almost all endeavors. Look at how it is playing out at the NCAA Div 1 level. Essentially you have 15-20 schools that matter, another 15-20 that hope to play the role of spoiler and everyone else is just trying to find ways not to lose money |
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Post by fantom on Sept 3, 2021 7:20:57 GMT -6
At the upper echelon of HS football it has become a business sadly. Just like any other entity as the money started flowing people started trying to get their piece of the pie. We'll see more and more of these places begin to pop up as the money becomes more and more. From many threads on here and just looking around our state I fear in many places football is transforming into a big school only sport. The heart and soul of high school football, the smaller places that usually have 30-40-50 kids on the team are struggling. Won't be long till we see lots of co-ops or just the bigger schools able to field teams. Some of those issues are at the feet of the coaching profession sadly. I remember creating a thread about how the British national soccer organization was pushing that the younger ages of youth soccer in their country quit keeping score. This was for maybe ages 8-9 and under, and the idea was that it would foster skill development as well as alleviate some of the (man made) pressures on coaches who could then focus on increasing numbers etc. My post was met universally with jeers and snide remarks, suggesting that doing the same for US football was akin to woosification of America and communism and blah blah blah. The truth is though, that concept of "you gotta keep score or it is sissified" or "If you don't keep score, what is the point" etc naturally leads to a division of haves and have nots in almost all endeavors. Look at how it is playing out at the NCAA Div 1 level. Essentially you have 15-20 schools that matter, another 15-20 that hope to play the role of spoiler and everyone else is just trying to find ways not to lose money When you look at the facilities arms race, all done for recruiting purposes, you wonder if NIL might actually save them money. |
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Post by coachcb on Sept 3, 2021 8:22:52 GMT -6
At the upper echelon of HS football it has become a business sadly. Just like any other entity as the money started flowing people started trying to get their piece of the pie. We'll see more and more of these places begin to pop up as the money becomes more and more. From many threads on here and just looking around our state I fear in many places football is transforming into a big school only sport. The heart and soul of high school football, the smaller places that usually have 30-40-50 kids on the team are struggling. Won't be long till we see lots of co-ops or just the bigger schools able to field teams. Some of those issues are at the feet of the coaching profession sadly. I remember creating a thread about how the British national soccer organization was pushing that the younger ages of youth soccer in their country quit keeping score. This was for maybe ages 8-9 and under, and the idea was that it would foster skill development as well as alleviate some of the (man made) pressures on coaches who could then focus on increasing numbers etc. My post was met universally with jeers and snide remarks, suggesting that doing the same for US football was akin to woosification of America and communism and blah blah blah. The truth is though, that concept of "you gotta keep score or it is sissified" or "If you don't keep score, what is the point" etc naturally leads to a division of haves and have nots in almost all endeavors. Look at how it is playing out at the NCAA Div 1 level. Essentially you have 15-20 schools that matter, another 15-20 that hope to play the role of spoiler and everyone else is just trying to find ways not to lose money
And, I imagine very few of those coaches responding have ever coached youth football. One year of youth coaching was one of the most rewarding in my career as the competitiveness was kept to a minimum. The worst season I've ever had was also with a youth league that was hyper competitive. It created what can be best referred to as a "toxic culture" among the kids, coaches and parents.
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Post by pistolwhipped on Sept 3, 2021 11:14:23 GMT -6
I'd agree in many cases but in Ohio they most definitely care about if the opponent will win too. AH went and played #1 Team in NJ the next week. Their playoff system rewards playing good teams. That's why it doesn't make sense. Bishop Syc was like 0-6 the year before. I'm in PA close to Ohio and know their playoff points system. Beating a bad team doesn't do much but it's better than not playing a game I guess. Alot of the private school in Ohio near us play independent schedules so getting games isn't always easy too. But they didn't play a game. OHSAA isn't even calling it a contest and it doesn't count towards anything. Again, how does a school with that reputation get duped? This is more shocking than ESPN or IMG getting fleeced. Someone a couple counties away doesn't know a school is not accredited? You'd think your AD in PA would know if a school close by was actually a real school. That's my only point. |
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