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Post by boyma41018 on Aug 16, 2021 22:58:49 GMT -6
My 8 year old is in tackle football for the first time and my head is going to explode watching the practices but sense i don't have any coaching experience and have never played football im looking for some answers to questions I have please and thank you. First, there are multiple volunteer dad coaches which I know is common and wouldn't be a problem if it wasnt being done so messy. My main issues are team building and separation. There is a huge divide in the team that was created by the coaches. The team is big so the divide would make some sense if it was split equally 1 half going with 1 or 2 coaches and the other going with a coach.. still to me that isn't building a team but whatever this is what is happening on my sons team. About 6 or 7 kids (the same kids including mine) are being separated from the team every practice now and put with a coach who literally doesn't know what he's doing. The other side has a good 10-12 kids! This other side is doing all kinds of things including learning plays while the other side is doing the same 3 things for 2 hours. At the end of practice they're putting these 2 groups against eachother mind you this other small group hasn't been learning what they have! This group has been totally separated and once they get with the other group it's like going against the rival which is mind blowing in itself. My question is is this normal? I'd say hell no but again id like some feedback. How is a strong team being built this way? Why are some kids being so limited to what they're learning? Why is there a divide at all?  ? How are these kids going to know what to do in an actual game when they're all on different pages ?!?!? Appreciate any feedback and answers. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 17, 2021 7:34:28 GMT -6
I wouldn't say it's normal, but I've seen it done, because I was part of such a scheme.
Some coaches do a quick take, or maybe not so quick, and decide certain kids are scrubs, and not worth much coaching effort. This was the case with a team I coached on in 2010, where the head coach was a very controlling type who gave us assistants little respect and little to do. One day he had me take a few aside for a while while he practiced team offense with the rest of them. I taught this small group of scrubs a few tricks, and when the head coach without warning called me to bring over that bunch to go against the 11 he'd been practicing with in team, and then saw how on the first snap one of these scrubs (our only girl) put the team's star athlete (godson of the head varsity coach at SUNY Maritime College) on the ground and blew up the play, we all had new-found respect.
Several years later I saw the same with a really bad coach in that club. And I've heard of its being done elsewhere.
The parents of the kids to whom this is being done could pull them off the team, but that wouldn't bother the head coach at all. If you can go to the club's president, you may or may not get a sympathetic ear.
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Post by kcclone on Aug 17, 2021 18:38:23 GMT -6
My 8 year old is in tackle football for the first time and my head is going to explode watching the practices but sense i don't have any coaching experience and have never played football im looking for some answers to questions I have please and thank you. First, there are multiple volunteer dad coaches which I know is common and wouldn't be a problem if it wasnt being done so messy. My main issues are team building and separation. There is a huge divide in the team that was created by the coaches. The team is big so the divide would make some sense if it was split equally 1 half going with 1 or 2 coaches and the other going with a coach.. still to me that isn't building a team but whatever this is what is happening on my sons team. About 6 or 7 kids (the same kids including mine) are being separated from the team every practice now and put with a coach who literally doesn't know what he's doing. The other side has a good 10-12 kids! This other side is doing all kinds of things including learning plays while the other side is doing the same 3 things for 2 hours. At the end of practice they're putting these 2 groups against eachother mind you this other small group hasn't been learning what they have! This group has been totally separated and once they get with the other group it's like going against the rival which is mind blowing in itself. My question is is this normal? I'd say hell no but again id like some feedback. How is a strong team being built this way? Why are some kids being so limited to what they're learning? Why is there a divide at all? ? How are these kids going to know what to do in an actual game when they're all on different pages ?!?!? Appreciate any feedback and answers. If what you’re describing is accurate, this is not normal (assuming this is a typical thing, not just a one time experiment). At that age, inclusivity should be a part of the team culture. With that said, at that age there are simply kids that should not be playing tackle football.
Is your kid capable of paying attention for a full practice and learning technique as well as the game plan? I’m not sure my kids were ready at that age for tackle football. I certainly wasn’t. In my opinion, you should ask the coach about it, in a way that is not “helicopter parent-esque”. He may have a somewhat understandable explanation. Depending on his answer though, I would strongly suggest pulling him from the team. There is nothing wrong with playing flag football or just other sports until he gets a little older. It sounds like your kid is not getting the greatest coaching (which you should expect with daddy ball). If the separation makes it miserable to be on the team, or he’s not actually leaning anything helpful, you have to ask yourself what is your kid getting out of it. I didn’t play tackle football until the 8th grade and ended up starting 34 games as a D1 player. Genetics is a big factor for that, but my point is football is a later developing sport. Your body as a high schooler is far more important than how many years you played in grade school. |
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 18, 2021 10:08:11 GMT -6
My 8 year old is in tackle football for the first time and my head is going to explode watching the practices but sense i don't have any coaching experience and have never played football im looking for some answers to questions I have please and thank you. First, there are multiple volunteer dad coaches which I know is common and wouldn't be a problem if it wasnt being done so messy. My main issues are team building and separation. There is a huge divide in the team that was created by the coaches. The team is big so the divide would make some sense if it was split equally 1 half going with 1 or 2 coaches and the other going with a coach.. still to me that isn't building a team but whatever this is what is happening on my sons team. About 6 or 7 kids (the same kids including mine) are being separated from the team every practice now and put with a coach who literally doesn't know what he's doing. The other side has a good 10-12 kids! This other side is doing all kinds of things including learning plays while the other side is doing the same 3 things for 2 hours. At the end of practice they're putting these 2 groups against eachother mind you this other small group hasn't been learning what they have! This group has been totally separated and once they get with the other group it's like going against the rival which is mind blowing in itself. My question is is this normal? I'd say hell no but again id like some feedback. How is a strong team being built this way? Why are some kids being so limited to what they're learning? Why is there a divide at all? ? How are these kids going to know what to do in an actual game when they're all on different pages ?!?!? Appreciate any feedback and answers. If what you’re describing is accurate, this is not normal (assuming this is a typical thing, not just a one time experiment). At that age, inclusivity should be a part of the team culture. With that said, at that age there are simply kids that should not be playing tackle football.
Is your kid capable of paying attention for a full practice and learning technique as well as the game plan? I’m not sure my kids were ready at that age for tackle football. I certainly wasn’t. In my opinion, you should ask the coach about it, in a way that is not “helicopter parent-esque”. He may have a somewhat understandable explanation. Depending on his answer though, I would strongly suggest pulling him from the team. There is nothing wrong with playing flag football or just other sports until he gets a little older. It sounds like your kid is not getting the greatest coaching (which you should expect with daddy ball). If the separation makes it miserable to be on the team, or he’s not actually leaning anything helpful, you have to ask yourself what is your kid getting out of it. I didn’t play tackle football until the 8th grade and ended up starting 34 games as a D1 player. Genetics is a big factor for that, but my point is football is a later developing sport. Your body as a high schooler is far more important than how many years you played in grade school. What you're writing may be true of any given 8YO, but for that many of them to show up to practice and then get shunted aside like that, it's not true of many of that group. The coaches are just prematurely deciding to exploit them as foils for the ones they expect to be the players. You may not have played tackle football until the 8th grade, but there are far more children who play football until the 8th grade. The typical football player is a child, usually a pre-teen. If you haven't played by 8th grade you might be one of the few like you who wind up playing as teens and adults, but more likely you'll never play organized tackle football. Which is fine; most people don't play the violin or ride motorcycles either. But the situation at hand is probably of an 8 year old who wants to play adult-organized tackle football and is capable of doing so, but is being cheated by the coaching staff. And unfortunately there may be little to be done about it, if the organization is unsympathetic and there are no others to go to. The club may fulfill its obligation technically just by some token practice as described, chalking it up to their coaches' judgment as being best for that group of children. |
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Post by kcclone on Aug 19, 2021 8:59:27 GMT -6
Bob, I'm not arguing against youth tackle football or saying everyone should wait until 8th grade. I'm just saying there are other options to consider if the player's situation isn't good, which to me it sounds like it's not. Playing in a different league or switching teams within the same league could be long shot options. My personal belief is that more long term harm (for the kid's mentality and desire to play football) can be done by trying to play through a crappy situation, than looking for a different fit.
Bad coaching is not uncommon in youth sports (all sports, not just tackle football) because in fact, it's often daddy coaches who are simply unequipped, and many times very biased towards their kid and his/her friends. Some are great, some or horrible and most are in between, but at least you hope they have the kids long term mentality somewhat in mind. Some only care about winning for themselves and their kid, so if they have to step on some kids who they deem to not be helpful, they will do just that. There just aren't enough good coaches to go around at this level unfortunately.
To me it sounds like this coach is effectively running a scout team with some of the kids who he's already determined aren't important to his team. He can cast them off, to get a more efficient practice with his first group, and has a built in set of kids to pit his starters against. It's not the right thing to do morally I'm sure we both agree.
Middle school and high school coaches, will at least see the value in keeping numbers and fringe players engaged. This guy apparently does not see long term value, which is too bad for the OP and the second group.
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 20, 2021 7:41:31 GMT -6
Middle school and high school coaches, will at least see the value in keeping numbers and fringe players engaged. Unfortunately there's no guarantee of that, either. |
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CoachDP
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Post by CoachDP on Aug 23, 2021 10:28:30 GMT -6
My personal belief is that more long term harm (for the kid's mentality and desire to play football) can be done by trying to play through a crappy situation, than looking for a different fit. --This ^.Bad coaching is not uncommon in youth sports (all sports, not just tackle football) because in fact, it's often daddy coaches who are simply unequipped, and many times very biased towards their kid and his/her friends. --Bingo.
There just aren't enough good coaches to go around at this level unfortunately. --100% correct.To me it sounds like this coach is effectively running a scout team with some of the kids who he's already determined aren't important to his team. He can cast them off, to get a more efficient practice with his first group, and has a built in set of kids to pit his starters against. It's not the right thing to do morally I'm sure we both agree. Middle school and high school coaches, will at least see the value in keeping numbers and fringe players engaged. This guy apparently does not see long term value, which is too bad for the OP and the second group. --Good analysis. That'd be my guess, too.
--Dave |
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CoachDP
Sophomore Member
Posts: 240
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Post by CoachDP on Aug 23, 2021 10:36:55 GMT -6
There's some vagueness and ambiguity in the OP's post about what is occurring and why. However, when I've coached the offensive line, I wanted that group for the entire two hours of practice. Other than during Dynamics or some team drills, I fought to keep that group intact and separate from the rest of the team. Some might wonder why our group was kept separate, but they played no other positions and we went over everything from blocking rules vs. different fronts, footwork, mobility, blocks, formations, board drills and toughness conditioning. So I can make an argument for keeping them separate, however I've also seen enough youth practices where the 2s and 3s are kept separate while being given "busy work" while the 1s were practicing aspects that were more relevant to game day.
--Dave
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 23, 2021 16:08:58 GMT -6
There's some vagueness and ambiguity in the OP's post about what is occurring and why. However, when I've coached the offensive line, I wanted that group for the entire two hours of practice. Other than during Dynamics or some team drills, I fought to keep that group intact and separate from the rest of the team. Some might wonder why our group was kept separate, but they played no other positions and we went over everything from blocking rules vs. different fronts, footwork, mobility, blocks, formations, board drills and toughness conditioning. So I can make an argument for keeping them separate, however I've also seen enough youth practices where the 2s and 3s are kept separate while being given "busy work" while the 1s were practicing aspects that were more relevant to game day. I'm sure you can do that to everybody's advantage if you have enough players, but not that many youth teams do. (Those of you who don't know, Dave's reputation as a coach is so good that he tends to wind up with a long roster.) Youth practices with 2nd and 3rd stringers? That's mind boggling! |
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? How are these kids going to know what to do in an actual game when they're all on different pages ?!?!? 
