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Post by Coachmfootball on Aug 6, 2021 14:41:37 GMT -6
Trust me, I love when coaches talk shop. It’s one of my favorite things to be a part of, but sometimes, for me at least, some coaches rub me the wrong way.
Example: I’ve seen a ton of coaches recently on Twitter release courses/PowerPoints on their offensive/defensive system. They’ll then respond to comments or talk about why some people are doing things wrong. Then, you turn around and see that their offensive/defensive system scores 14 points per game or allows 40+ points per game. I know there’s so much more that goes into outcomes on the field than just the system (talent, leadership, coaching, etc.), but it rubs me the wrong way when you have guys on Twitter selling stuff to coaches that has yet to work for themselves. I see them selling it on CoachTube or their own websites and then you look and they haven’t won more than 4 games in years.
My question here is: am I wrong for thinking this way? Am I wrong for being bothered that someone is selling/preaching something that clearly hasn’t worked for them? I know, like I said, more factors go into the outcome on the field than just the scheme, but for me personally, I’d never sell/preach about my system if I didn’t have results to back it up.
Am I wrong? I feel bad thinking this way because coaches take their time to put stuff together. Or am I completely out of line? I truly don’t know how to feel.
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Post by blb on Aug 6, 2021 14:57:42 GMT -6
No, you're not wrong. When you buy what somebody's selling you want them to have credibility, to know that what you're getting has worked for them.
By the same token the best coaches don't always win, and even guys with average-mediocre records may have a lot to offer.
One of the best clinicians I ever heard was Jim Walden, the former Washington State coach (1978-86) whose winning percentage there was .460.
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Post by Coachmfootball on Aug 6, 2021 15:09:33 GMT -6
No, you're not wrong. When you buy what somebody's selling you want them to have credibility, to know that what you're getting has worked for them. By the same token the best coaches don't always win, and even guys with average-mediocre records may have a lot to offer. One of the best clinicians I ever heard was Jim Walden, the former Washington State coach (1978-86) whose winning percentage there was .460. Awesome. And I totally understand that aspect. I was more so referring to high school coaches. The college game is so vast in terms of talent/innovation that I tend to throw away the win-lose records of college coaches when listening/absorbing their stuff. I think the comparison between high school football to college football is so wide, so I tend not to compare the 2. I've seen a ton of high school coaches in particular selling the public/preaching about their system, when they have no credibility. And I'm sitting here thinking: "Okay then why are you 2-8 every year?" I'm not going to name names, of course, but recently just been seeing a lot of this and I don't love it.
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Post by blb on Aug 6, 2021 15:26:08 GMT -6
I've seen a ton of high school coaches in particular selling the public/preaching about their system, when they have no credibility. And I'm sitting here thinking: "Okay then why are you 2-8 every year?" I'm not going to name names, of course, but recently just been seeing a lot of this and I don't love it. Guys who are better at using technology to create media than coaching their teams perhaps.
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Post by coachcb on Aug 6, 2021 15:28:19 GMT -6
I won't begrudge someone for making a buck: its buyer-beware. I do my research before purchasing drills. And..I really only pay for drills: Xs and Os are every where.
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Post by chi5hi on Aug 6, 2021 15:55:04 GMT -6
No, you're not wrong. When you buy what somebody's selling you want them to have credibility, to know that what you're getting has worked for them. By the same token the best coaches don't always win, and even guys with average-mediocre records may have a lot to offer. One of the best clinicians I ever heard was Jim Walden, the former Washington State coach (1978-86) whose winning percentage there was .460. Awesome. And I totally understand that aspect. I was more so referring to high school coaches. The college game is so vast in terms of talent/innovation that I tend to throw away the win-lose records of college coaches when listening/absorbing their stuff. I think the comparison between high school football to college football is so wide, so I tend not to compare the 2. I've seen a ton of high school coaches in particular selling the public/preaching about their system, when they have no credibility. And I'm sitting here thinking: "Okay then why are you 2-8 every year?" I'm not going to name names, of course, but recently just been seeing a lot of this and I don't love it. Good observation. I have a lot of agreement with you. I suppose that in every profession there exists those who truly are pro's, and then are many others who just read books and think that it makes them an expert...that type NEVER miss a chance to tell you that, too! notice the CAPS LOCK? Talking the "talk" is easy. Some people will purchase anything that's in print, and there are coaches who know that...so they print stuff. Nevertheless, any ideas that someone may have are probably worthy of at least, some consideration. We all "borrow" stuff from each other and tweak/twist/ or otherwise modify things to fit our own way. So, you may never adopt everything someone else did, but you might take something from it. I have actually "borrowed" simple things like nomenclature, or snap counts, hole numbering...calling motions, etc. Perhaps "credibility" is in the eye of the beholder?
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 6, 2021 16:10:37 GMT -6
My biggest problem with this is that EVERYONE seems to be trying to "build the brand" and act like they've re-invented the wheel for using ideas they got from somebody else.
My even biggest problem with this is all the idiot parents, kids, media and other people that see this and don't know dick about the game and take them at their self proclaimed genius status.
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Post by Coachmfootball on Aug 6, 2021 16:42:13 GMT -6
My biggest problem with this is that EVERYONE seems to be trying to "build the brand" and act like they've re-invented the wheel for using ideas they got from somebody else. My even biggest problem with this is all the idiot parents, kids, media and other people that see this and don't know dick about the game and take them at their self proclaimed genius status. Exactly! This is the worst part. For example, a DC I follow released a bunch of clinics tapes from his system and has yet to back it up with results. And then, I browse my timeline and other coaches are calling him a genius and a guru. I’m just sitting there thinking, man this dude hasn’t had a winning season since 2010 and people are making him out to be a messiah. Oblivious coaches are buying that stuff without doing any fact checking. Totally bothers me. Like, cool you put a fancy PowerPoint together with cool pictures about your scheme, but are you winning?
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Question
Aug 6, 2021 17:03:37 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by larrymoe on Aug 6, 2021 17:03:37 GMT -6
My biggest problem with this is that EVERYONE seems to be trying to "build the brand" and act like they've re-invented the wheel for using ideas they got from somebody else. My even biggest problem with this is all the idiot parents, kids, media and other people that see this and don't know dick about the game and take them at their self proclaimed genius status. Exactly! This is the worst part. For example, a DC I follow released a bunch of clinics tapes from his system and has yet to back it up with results. And then, I browse my timeline and other coaches are calling him a genius and a guru. I’m just sitting there thinking, man this dude hasn’t had a winning season since 2010 and people are making him out to be a messiah. Oblivious coaches are buying that stuff without doing any fact checking. Totally bothers me. Like, cool you put a fancy PowerPoint together with cool pictures about your scheme, but are you winning? The cat feeders are the worst at this IMO.
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Post by freezeoption on Aug 6, 2021 21:15:12 GMT -6
Sometimes a 2-8 team takes a he'll of lot better coaching than a undefeated team.
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Post by Coachmfootball on Aug 6, 2021 23:41:16 GMT -6
Sometimes a 2-8 team takes a he'll of lot better coaching than a undefeated team. I agree. But, in terms of long term success, if a 2-8 team has great coaching, they will most likely get better over time. Don’t be the 2-8 coach year after year and then turn around selling your system on Twitter. I know there’s more factors that are in play here, I said that from the jump. But, overall, you really tend to have no credibility if you can’t find success. The only way that I see the other side of this is: you’re a really good X’s and O’s coach, but a bad teacher. And even still, I’m not gonna sit here and spend money/time studying your system if I initially know y’all haven’t been successful. It’s a tough thing for me because I know how hard coaches work when it comes to putting this stuff together for other coaches, but it just bothers me that some guys ACT like they know best/their system is incredible, when in reality, they haven’t been .500 in a decade. Rubs me wrong, that’s all. Be humble. Work on your system with your kids. Get better together. Then, when it starts working, share what you have done with other coaches.
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Post by coachcb on Aug 7, 2021 7:00:59 GMT -6
My biggest problem with this is that EVERYONE seems to be trying to "build the brand" and act like they've re-invented the wheel for using ideas they got from somebody else. My even biggest problem with this is all the idiot parents, kids, media and other people that see this and don't know dick about the game and take them at their self proclaimed genius status. This does get under my skin. There are several high school coaches on social media peddling existing offenses and are marketing them as their own. One has a free "chalkboard session" where he draws up various schemes he's been tinkering with. I've found three YouTube videos of the exact schemes he's discussing, run a decade and a half ago, and post them in the comments. To be fair, it appears as if the guys know their chit and are selling a comprehensive package (Xs and Os, install guides, drills, etc..) but give credit where credit is due.
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Post by blb on Aug 7, 2021 7:15:30 GMT -6
If I hadn't had a winning season in a decade and-or was coming off a 2-8 season, selling my "system" wouldn't cross my mind, and if it did I'd be embarrassed.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 7, 2021 7:34:14 GMT -6
Social media has made it really easy and cheap for people to market themselves as some kind of guru. Check out Twitter strength & conditioning. It's a cesspool of dogma, ad hominem attacks, faulty conclusions, and ridiculous exercises.
The problem is that there is a market for this garbage. There are way too many people who don't want to do the hard work themselves. It's just easier to buy something online.
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Question
Aug 7, 2021 9:35:25 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by tripsclosed on Aug 7, 2021 9:35:25 GMT -6
No, you're not wrong. When you buy what somebody's selling you want them to have credibility, to know that what you're getting has worked for them. By the same token the best coaches don't always win, and even guys with average-mediocre records may have a lot to offer. One of the best clinicians I ever heard was Jim Walden, the former Washington State coach (1978-86) whose winning percentage there was .460. At the college level, your ability as a recruiter and/or your ability to hire competent recruiters under you is a big factor in your win/loss record. You can be a great coach, but if you can't recruit, you will only ever do so well win/loss-wise.
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sbackes
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Post by sbackes on Aug 7, 2021 9:45:40 GMT -6
Great job of evaluating the source of information- This was always emphasized when I was in school but seems to have been overlooked by some.
As always, Buyer Beware.
I find that if you just reach out to really successful position coaches, they are willing to talk ball and share details (because they love teaching the game to anyone who will learn).
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Post by Coachmfootball on Aug 7, 2021 10:35:25 GMT -6
Social media has made it really easy and cheap for people to market themselves as some kind of guru. Check out Twitter strength & conditioning. It's a cesspool of dogma, ad hominem attacks, faulty conclusions, and ridiculous exercises. The problem is that there is a market for this garbage. There are way too many people who don't want to do the hard work themselves. It's just easier to buy something online. Dude, I can’t even go on social media sometimes because of it. I’m not going to out any coaches that I see doing this, but it’s such a sense of fraud and false advertising. You’re stuff has yet to work!!!! Stop selling it on social media claiming: “This is what you should be running at the high school level.” Take a walk buddy.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 7, 2021 12:57:22 GMT -6
Social media has made it really easy and cheap for people to market themselves as some kind of guru. Check out Twitter strength & conditioning. It's a cesspool of dogma, ad hominem attacks, faulty conclusions, and ridiculous exercises. The problem is that there is a market for this garbage. There are way too many people who don't want to do the hard work themselves. It's just easier to buy something online. Dude, I can’t even go on social media sometimes because of it. I’m not going to out any coaches that I see doing this, but it’s such a sense of fraud and false advertising. You’re stuff has yet to work!!!! Stop selling it on social media claiming: “This is what you should be running at the high school level.” Take a walk buddy. Lots of people just want a magic bullet. My kid had a really great high school career. 10 varsity letters, 4-year 2-way varsity football starter, 1st Team All-Stater, etc, etc. He was also a competitive powerlifter who broke several world records for his age and division. I would get emails often from parents who were really impressed with Eli and wanted to know what program he was using, nutrition, supplements, etc, etc to get where he was at. So, I would tell them the following: 1. He lifts 2-4 days a week and typically does 8 sets of 3 reps on the big lifts (squat, bench press, and deadlift) and tries to get about 50 reps on 2-3 accessory movements. 2. He gets at least 8 hours of sleep every night. 3. He drinks a gallon of whole milk every day and eats big and relatively clean. 4. He never skips training sessions. That means if he doesn't get home from wrestling practice until 7pm, he's getting a quick meal and will be in the weight room by 7:30pm. When I would share that with the people who asked me, they were never impressed. They simply could not believe that a high school kid could make such incredible progress by following such a simple plan. They wanted me to give them some super-secret cutting-edge program with bands, chains, wobble boards, Bosu balls...that kind of stuff. I would even offer to allow other kids the option to come in and train with my son. None of those kids lasted more than a couple weeks. The hardest thing for those kids was committing to the consistency. And consistency, not some combination of sets, reps, and crazy exercises, was what led to my kid being an elite high school athlete. But people really didn't want to hear that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2021 14:11:43 GMT -6
Dude, I can’t even go on social media sometimes because of it. I’m not going to out any coaches that I see doing this, but it’s such a sense of fraud and false advertising. You’re stuff has yet to work!!!! Stop selling it on social media claiming: “This is what you should be running at the high school level.” Take a walk buddy. Lots of people just want a magic bullet. My kid had a really great high school career. 10 varsity letters, 4-year 2-way varsity football starter, 1st Team All-Stater, etc, etc. He was also a competitive powerlifter who broke several world records for his age and division. I would get emails often from parents who were really impressed with Eli and wanted to know what program he was using, nutrition, supplements, etc, etc to get where he was at. So, I would tell them the following: 1. He lifts 2-4 days a week and typically does 8 sets of 3 reps on the big lifts (squat, bench press, and deadlift) and tries to get about 50 reps on 2-3 accessory movements. 2. He gets at least 8 hours of sleep every night. 3. He drinks a gallon of whole milk every day and eats big and relatively clean. 4. He never skips training sessions. That means if he doesn't get home from wrestling practice until 7pm, he's getting a quick meal and will be in the weight room by 7:30pm. When I would share that with the people who asked me, they were never impressed. They simply could not believe that a high school kid could make such incredible progress by following such a simple plan. They wanted me to give them some super-secret cutting-edge program with bands, chains, wobble boards, Bosu balls...that kind of stuff. I would even offer to allow other kids the option to come in and train with my son. None of those kids lasted more than a couple weeks. The hardest thing for those kids was committing to the consistency. And consistency, not some combination of sets, reps, and crazy exercises, was what led to my kid being an elite high school athlete. But people really didn't want to hear that. Nothing is easy. People cannot accept that.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 7, 2021 14:41:36 GMT -6
Lots of people just want a magic bullet. My kid had a really great high school career. 10 varsity letters, 4-year 2-way varsity football starter, 1st Team All-Stater, etc, etc. He was also a competitive powerlifter who broke several world records for his age and division. I would get emails often from parents who were really impressed with Eli and wanted to know what program he was using, nutrition, supplements, etc, etc to get where he was at. So, I would tell them the following: 1. He lifts 2-4 days a week and typically does 8 sets of 3 reps on the big lifts (squat, bench press, and deadlift) and tries to get about 50 reps on 2-3 accessory movements. 2. He gets at least 8 hours of sleep every night. 3. He drinks a gallon of whole milk every day and eats big and relatively clean. 4. He never skips training sessions. That means if he doesn't get home from wrestling practice until 7pm, he's getting a quick meal and will be in the weight room by 7:30pm. When I would share that with the people who asked me, they were never impressed. They simply could not believe that a high school kid could make such incredible progress by following such a simple plan. They wanted me to give them some super-secret cutting-edge program with bands, chains, wobble boards, Bosu balls...that kind of stuff. I would even offer to allow other kids the option to come in and train with my son. None of those kids lasted more than a couple weeks. The hardest thing for those kids was committing to the consistency. And consistency, not some combination of sets, reps, and crazy exercises, was what led to my kid being an elite high school athlete. But people really didn't want to hear that. Nothing is easy. People cannot accept that. The disconnect that most people have is that they think easy and simple are the same thing.
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Post by larrymoe on Aug 7, 2021 14:45:46 GMT -6
2. He gets at least 8 hours of sleep every night. That's the biggest part that their child would never get.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2021 14:52:01 GMT -6
Nothing is easy. People cannot accept that. The disconnect that most people have is that they think easy and simple are the same thing. Most are defeated long before the battle has started. What is not simple or easy is the discipline. Most task, jobs, goals in and of themselves are simple and easy. Where it gets ugly is when you have to make choices.
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Post by newhope on Aug 8, 2021 19:45:19 GMT -6
Trust me, I love when coaches talk shop. It’s one of my favorite things to be a part of, but sometimes, for me at least, some coaches rub me the wrong way. Example: I’ve seen a ton of coaches recently on Twitter release courses/PowerPoints on their offensive/defensive system. They’ll then respond to comments or talk about why some people are doing things wrong. Then, you turn around and see that their offensive/defensive system scores 14 points per game or allows 40+ points per game. I know there’s so much more that goes into outcomes on the field than just the system (talent, leadership, coaching, etc.), but it rubs me the wrong way when you have guys on Twitter selling stuff to coaches that has yet to work for themselves. I see them selling it on CoachTube or their own websites and then you look and they haven’t won more than 4 games in years. My question here is: am I wrong for thinking this way? Am I wrong for being bothered that someone is selling/preaching something that clearly hasn’t worked for them? I know, like I said, more factors go into the outcome on the field than just the scheme, but for me personally, I’d never sell/preach about my system if I didn’t have results to back it up. Am I wrong? I feel bad thinking this way because coaches take their time to put stuff together. Or am I completely out of line? I truly don’t know how to feel. A good friend of mine spent a ton on a system. After we shut them down and routed them for a couple of years after they changed, one of my assistants asked if I wanted to offer to sell him our stuff for $500. I waited a dozen years to tell him that. To me, they had been pretty good doing what they did in the past. They got away from that to do somebody else's stuff and it's not what they knew---no matter how much they paid for more "training" sessions. Might just be me....there are plenty of people out around who are more than willing to help you with an offense or a defense without you paying a ton of money for it. Coaching what you and your staff know is going to get you a lot further and save you a lot of money. I haven't seen one of those guys selling that stuff yet who dominated the competition. Nick and Dabo ain't out there selling a system.
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 9, 2021 11:18:24 GMT -6
Trust me, I love when coaches talk shop. It’s one of my favorite things to be a part of, but sometimes, for me at least, some coaches rub me the wrong way. Example: I’ve seen a ton of coaches recently on Twitter release courses/PowerPoints on their offensive/defensive system. They’ll then respond to comments or talk about why some people are doing things wrong. Then, you turn around and see that their offensive/defensive system scores 14 points per game or allows 40+ points per game. I know there’s so much more that goes into outcomes on the field than just the system (talent, leadership, coaching, etc.), but it rubs me the wrong way when you have guys on Twitter selling stuff to coaches that has yet to work for themselves. I see them selling it on CoachTube or their own websites and then you look and they haven’t won more than 4 games in years. My question here is: am I wrong for thinking this way? Am I wrong for being bothered that someone is selling/preaching something that clearly hasn’t worked for them? I know, like I said, more factors go into the outcome on the field than just the scheme, but for me personally, I’d never sell/preach about my system if I didn’t have results to back it up. Am I wrong? I feel bad thinking this way because coaches take their time to put stuff together. Or am I completely out of line? I truly don’t know how to feel. Yes, I think you're wrong. Someone might be selling or preaching something that hasn't yet worked in their hands, but could be made to work in somebody else's. Caveat emptor applies, and what you find out about records, others may find out about records too. But records don't say everything. Somebody may have something particularly good that's balancing a particular weakness they have. Like, if they weren't doing that, they'd be awful instead of just bad. Or it's something that works for some players but not all. I have a drill that worked great with the first bunch of players I tried it with, but the following 2 seasons with different players, they just didn't "get it".
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Post by coachwoodall on Aug 9, 2021 11:30:59 GMT -6
Trust me, I love when coaches talk shop. It’s one of my favorite things to be a part of, but sometimes, for me at least, some coaches rub me the wrong way. Example: I’ve seen a ton of coaches recently on Twitter release courses/PowerPoints on their offensive/defensive system. They’ll then respond to comments or talk about why some people are doing things wrong. Then, you turn around and see that their offensive/defensive system scores 14 points per game or allows 40+ points per game. I know there’s so much more that goes into outcomes on the field than just the system (talent, leadership, coaching, etc.), but it rubs me the wrong way when you have guys on Twitter selling stuff to coaches that has yet to work for themselves. I see them selling it on CoachTube or their own websites and then you look and they haven’t won more than 4 games in years. My question here is: am I wrong for thinking this way? Am I wrong for being bothered that someone is selling/preaching something that clearly hasn’t worked for them? I know, like I said, more factors go into the outcome on the field than just the scheme, but for me personally, I’d never sell/preach about my system if I didn’t have results to back it up. Am I wrong? I feel bad thinking this way because coaches take their time to put stuff together. Or am I completely out of line? I truly don’t know how to feel. A good friend of mine spent a ton on a system. After we shut them down and routed them for a couple of years after they changed, one of my assistants asked if I wanted to offer to sell him our stuff for $500. I waited a dozen years to tell him that. To me, they had been pretty good doing what they did in the past. They got away from that to do somebody else's stuff and it's not what they knew---no matter how much they paid for more "training" sessions. Might just be me....there are plenty of people out around who are more than willing to help you with an offense or a defense without you paying a ton of money for it. Coaching what you and your staff know is going to get you a lot further and save you a lot of money. I haven't seen one of those guys selling that stuff yet who dominated the competition. Nick and Dabo ain't out there selling a system. My 1st piece of advice to people when asking what kind of scheme they need to run is this; Whatever you run, you better know how to fix it when it isn't working.
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