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Post by vicvinegar on Aug 5, 2021 7:38:34 GMT -6
So I took a PE teaching job earlier this summer. I talked to the HC before the interview and he said he'd put in a strong word for me. I'm thrilled that I got the job, because it seems like a good school, good kids, plus PE jobs are so tough to get.
Then I show up to our first practice. We're a staff of 5. The HC is pretty knowledgeable whenever it comes to offense, but contributes very little when it comes to the defense and the practices are pretty unorganized. The other 3 are nice guys, but have zero football knowledge. I get that on some staffs you may have a couple warm bodies, but not when one of them is the DC.
In individuals, they NEVER work any kind of technique specific to the position. The DB coach literally does 1 on 1's the whole time. They yell at the kids anytime they don't make the play. However, they don't really tell them what they did wrong or how to fix it, they just say things like "make the tackle" or "be more physical". It's not the first time I've seen coaches like this, but it is the first time I've worked under a DC with so little knowledge of the game.
How do I make the best out of this situation? It hurts my ears listening to these guys coach. Do I just wait it out and hope there's some turnover on the staff in the next year or two? I would be nervous to only teach anytime soon. I believe that part of the reason I was hired was to coach and I'm afraid if I try to only teach in the next year or two that I may be pushed out of my teaching position. Do I wait until the end of the year and look for other teaching/ coaching positions? Am I just overreacting to quickly?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2021 8:34:41 GMT -6
So I took a PE teaching job earlier this summer. I talked to the HC before the interview and he said he'd put in a strong word for me. I'm thrilled that I got the job, because it seems like a good school, good kids, plus PE jobs are so tough to get. Then I show up to our first practice. We're a staff of 5. The HC is pretty knowledgeable whenever it comes to offense, but contributes very little when it comes to the defense and the practices are pretty unorganized. The other 3 are nice guys, but have zero football knowledge. I get that on some staffs you may have a couple warm bodies, but not when one of them is the DC. In individuals, they NEVER work any kind of technique specific to the position. The DB coach literally does 1 on 1's the whole time. They yell at the kids anytime they don't make the play. However, they don't really tell them what they did wrong or how to fix it, they just say things like "make the tackle" or "be more physical". It's not the first time I've seen coaches like this, but it is the first time I've worked under a DC with so little knowledge of the game. How do I make the best out of this situation? It hurts my ears listening to these guys coach. Do I just wait it out and hope there's some turnover on the staff in the next year or two? I would be nervous to only teach anytime soon. I believe that part of the reason I was hired was to coach and I'm afraid if I try to only teach in the next year or two that I may be pushed out of my teaching position. Do I wait until the end of the year and look for other teaching/ coaching positions? Am I just overreacting to quickly? Most people who i have been passed over for, are warm bodies. OC, DC, whatever. What you should take out of this, is that it is who you know, not what you know. Keep your mouth shut, do your job. |
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Post by 19delta on Aug 5, 2021 8:42:28 GMT -6
The best piece of life advice I ever heard came from the US Army rifle range at Fort Knox, Kentucky:
Stay in your lane.
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Post by coachcb on Aug 5, 2021 9:01:33 GMT -6
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. My advice: coach the hell out of your position (and yours alone) and grin and bear.. Keep your head down unless someone tries to throw you under the bus. If that happens, light 'em up behind closed doors.
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Post by coachlit on Aug 5, 2021 12:21:06 GMT -6
If anything I’d bring it up to the HC. It’s his job to coach up the coaches.
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Post by 19delta on Aug 5, 2021 12:25:24 GMT -6
If anything I’d bring it up to the HC. It’s his job to coach up the coaches. Yeah...I would NOT do this, especially as a first-year teacher in the district. I mean, how exactly would that conversation go? 🤣 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2021 12:34:45 GMT -6
What others have said: you have a new job that’s hard to get. Hold onto it. It sounds like you may be able to rise up the ranks and make it to DC or even HC there in a few years if you can stay on everyone’s good side.
I’ve been in that position and it really sucks, but school and staff politics are what they are. At some point this season, someone will ask you for your advice on something small. Give it and let them make of it what they will, which will likely be nothing.
Until then, wait and make your own Indy and group periods into the things you want. About the farthest I’d go might be to hit up the DC or HC and ask them for them to carve out a few minutes for a specific group drill or period and try to do it your way.
Until then, be the last guy to leave, help with tape, laundry, painting, and washing out the coolers or cleaning up the locker room after a game. This sounds like a place that usually has some turnover on staff, so your time may come sooner than you think.
When I first started coaching, I used to get extremely invested in our team and all the things we could do better, to the point where I was always stressed out and annoyed over stuff I had little control over. That’s no way to live.
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Post by coachcb on Aug 5, 2021 15:02:59 GMT -6
If anything I’d bring it up to the HC. It’s his job to coach up the coaches. Yeah...I would NOT do this, especially as a first-year teacher in the district. I mean, how exactly would that conversation go? 🤣 I agree... I watched a very young but excellent OL/DL coach keep his mouth shut about stuff for five years under a less-than-competent HC. He eventually became the school's offensive coordinator under a new HC for three seasons and is one of the best I know. He took over an HC gig two years ago and is doing great things. Hes a better man than I. Ha! |
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Post by tripsclosed on Aug 5, 2021 15:13:45 GMT -6
If anything I’d bring it up to the HC. It’s his job to coach up the coaches. Yeah...I would NOT do this, especially as a first-year teacher in the district. I mean, how exactly would that conversation go? 🤣 Especially considering the HC probably helped get him an actual full-time, paying job... |
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Post by tripsclosed on Aug 5, 2021 15:17:44 GMT -6
One of the first things that jumped to my mind is, it seems to me the HC hired you because he wanted you to coach. If you are a competent coach, he will notice in time, and, unless staff politics get in the way, he may end up promoting you to DC at some point. And, as others have said, if staff turnover is a thing at this place, might luck your way into a HC spot in 2-3 seasons...
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Post by carookie on Aug 5, 2021 15:24:32 GMT -6
In individuals, they NEVER work any kind of technique specific to the position. The DB coach literally does 1 on 1's the whole time. They yell at the kids anytime they don't make the play. However, they don't really tell them what they did wrong or how to fix it, they just say things like "make the tackle" or "be more physical". From what I see, this is a growing problem. I have come across quite a few staffs lately where they actually teach technique. Theyll claim, "they are not here to run drills" or "I TOLD them how to do it already" (as if simply telling someone how to do things a couple times will get them to execute it under pressure). Many more just focus on team and running plays. Its bonkers to me how few actually teach football. That being written, just gotta grit your teeth and get through it. AS has been mentioned, stay in your lane, coach up your group, and next time you are in charge (coordinator or HC) make sure you make your guys coach. |
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Post by coachlit on Aug 5, 2021 17:27:55 GMT -6
Yeah...I would NOT do this, especially as a first-year teacher in the district. I mean, how exactly would that conversation go? 🤣 Especially considering the HC probably helped get him an actual full-time, paying job... In my district, head football coaches don’t have a say in hiring or firing. They definitely can have a say or preference, but hirings and firings rely solely on dept. chairs, APs, and Principal. This is just me, but if I can’t have a private conversation to express concerns or questions I have, then that’s not someone I’d want to work with. |
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Post by tripsclosed on Aug 5, 2021 18:54:02 GMT -6
Especially considering the HC probably helped get him an actual full-time, paying job... In my district, head football coaches don’t have a say in hiring or firing. They definitely can have a say or preference, but hirings and firings rely solely on dept. chairs, APs, and Principal. This is just me, but if I can’t have a private conversation to express concerns or questions I have, then that’s not someone I’d want to work with. To each their own. I would probably give it a year and get a feel for the HC in terms of having that kind of convo, and see what the staff looks like a year later. Then, if I still get the sense I can't have that convo, then I'm with ya. |
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Post by jlenwood on Aug 5, 2021 19:24:33 GMT -6
Then I show up to our first practice. We're a staff of 5. The HC is pretty knowledgeable whenever it comes to offense, but contributes very little when it comes to the defense and the practices are pretty unorganized. The other 3 are nice guys, but have zero football knowledge. I get that on some staffs you may have a couple warm bodies, but not when one of them is the DC. Did you not have any interactions with this crew before the first practice. I have always been able to spot a fool in the meetings and prep time before the season even starts. |
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Post by coachwoodall on Aug 5, 2021 21:20:39 GMT -6
I don't know where you are in your career, so take this with a grain of salt. vicvinegar you don't say if your are coaching offense, defense or both... I'm assuming with a staff of 5 y'all coach both sides. You only mention defensive faults... so again I'm assuming that you have identified that defensive staff/side as the biggest problem. I've never been afraid to voice my opinion. Yeah, as a young buck I said some stupid stuff, but it was an honest view point. If I was off base and got my scruff shaken, that was okay with me. I didn't try to upset the applecart, but I wasn't afraid to call a spade a spade. Always make sure when your point out fallacies, that you have a logical, thought out solution. And if the HC doesn't take it into consideration, then so be it. As a new guy, the advice others have given to sit back and take in the scenery isn't bad advice at all. In fact I would also advise to measure the playing field before stepping into the fray. But I wouldn't say not to step into the fray as a new guy at all costs.... you were hired to do a job and that job was to be a coach as part of a staff. If the staff can't handle honest, informed input then you know if you're going the 'just teacher' route. Again don't be "that guy" but don't be afraid to be "that guy". |
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Post by coachcb on Aug 6, 2021 8:46:40 GMT -6
Honestly, you should probably be happy you're not a coordinator in this situation. It sounds like a cure-all for one side of the ball but that's not always the case. You still answer to the HC and he might not be accepting of change.
Now you've got even more of a mess on your hand... Things are still basically being practiced the same way but you're officially responsible for that circus.
After I stepped down from my HC position, the guy that took over for me asked me to run the defense. It took one conversation to realize that it was going to be a "bad fit" for me. That season, they gave up an average of 42 points on defense. They gave up 56 to a team we limited to 12 the year before. The defense wasn't getting chit for practice time and they paid for it.
I've had my name tied to a bad brand before and I won't do it again. I love the game and I love working with the kids but that's not enough for me to take a professional hit. Or deal with that stress.
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Post by bobgoodman on Aug 6, 2021 10:03:01 GMT -6
So I took a PE teaching job earlier this summer. I talked to the HC before the interview and he said he'd put in a strong word for me. I'm thrilled that I got the job, because it seems like a good school, good kids, plus PE jobs are so tough to get. Then I show up to our first practice. We're a staff of 5. The HC is pretty knowledgeable whenever it comes to offense, but contributes very little when it comes to the defense and the practices are pretty unorganized. The other 3 are nice guys, but have zero football knowledge. I get that on some staffs you may have a couple warm bodies, but not when one of them is the DC. In individuals, they NEVER work any kind of technique specific to the position. The DB coach literally does 1 on 1's the whole time. They yell at the kids anytime they don't make the play. However, they don't really tell them what they did wrong or how to fix it, they just say things like "make the tackle" or "be more physical". It's not the first time I've seen coaches like this, but it is the first time I've worked under a DC with so little knowledge of the game. How do I make the best out of this situation? It hurts my ears listening to these guys coach. What you didn't explain was, what else are you doing (at a station or group) while you're listening? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2021 11:26:53 GMT -6
Honestly, you should probably be happy you're not a coordinator in this situation. It sounds like a cure-all for one side of the ball but that's not always the case. You still answer to the HC and he might not be accepting of change. Now you've got even more of a mess on your hand... Things are still basically being practiced the same way but you're officially responsible for that circus. After I stepped down from my HC position, the guy that took over for me asked me to run the defense. It took one conversation to realize that it was going to be a "bad fit" for me. That season, they gave up an average of 42 points on defense. They gave up 56 to a team we limited to 12 the year before. The defense wasn't getting chit for practice time and they paid for it. I've had my name tied to a bad brand before and I won't do it again. I love the game and I love working with the kids but that's not enough for me to take a professional hit. Or deal with that stress. It can be maddening when you’re coordinator-in-name-only,, but it seems like a surprising number of guys out there will take over the side of the ball they like best when they become HC and focus everything there. then hand the other one to someone who’s basically just a fall guy who may not even get much say in practice, personnel, strategy, or play calling. I got that t-shirt once, too. It wasn’t worth it. |
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Post by coachcb on Aug 6, 2021 14:38:49 GMT -6
Honestly, you should probably be happy you're not a coordinator in this situation. It sounds like a cure-all for one side of the ball but that's not always the case. You still answer to the HC and he might not be accepting of change. Now you've got even more of a mess on your hand... Things are still basically being practiced the same way but you're officially responsible for that circus. After I stepped down from my HC position, the guy that took over for me asked me to run the defense. It took one conversation to realize that it was going to be a "bad fit" for me. That season, they gave up an average of 42 points on defense. They gave up 56 to a team we limited to 12 the year before. The defense wasn't getting chit for practice time and they paid for it. I've had my name tied to a bad brand before and I won't do it again. I love the game and I love working with the kids but that's not enough for me to take a professional hit. Or deal with that stress. It can be maddening when you’re coordinator-in-name-only,, but it seems like a surprising number of guys out there will take over the side of the ball they like best when they become HC and focus everything there. then hand the other one to someone who’s basically just a fall guy who may not even get much say in practice, personnel, strategy, or play calling. I got that t-shirt once, too. It wasn’t worth it. Yeah, I won't take over a coordinator title if there's going to be a target on my back. I was thrilled to take the DC position under our current HC as we're cut from the same cloth, philosophically. But we had hour upon hour of conversation about football long before he took the HC gig. He let's me do my thing with the defense, gives us ample time and his interjections into schemes and drills have only made us better. |
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sbackes
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Post by sbackes on Aug 6, 2021 19:39:02 GMT -6
Do YOUR job to the best of your ability and things will end up alright. Coach the heck out of your position group and build your network.
Talk ball with your staff. Ask questions from a standpoint of humility- get them to share what they do know and ask follow up questions- they may not realize they are deficient until the right questions are asked.
Set the standard for work ethic and coaching professionalism. They may begin to seek out your opinion when they see your level of success.
Good things will come to you.
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Post by vicvinegar on Aug 6, 2021 20:54:46 GMT -6
You only mention defensive faults... so again I'm assuming that you have identified that defensive staff/side as the biggest problem. Yes. The HC is also the OC and he knows what he's talking about. It certainly seems like he threw the D on the DC who is certainly not qualified. At the beginning of summer it may have been his only option. None of the previous staff returned. I don't know if he didn't invite them back or if they decided not to come back. |
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Post by oldman61 on Aug 6, 2021 20:55:50 GMT -6
Do YOUR job to the best of your ability and things will end up alright. Coach the heck out of your position group and build your network. Talk ball with your staff. Ask questions from a standpoint of humility- get them to share what they do know and ask follow up questions- they may not realize they are deficient until the right questions are asked. Set the standard for work ethic and coaching professionalism. They may begin to seek out your opinion when they see your level of success. Good things will come to you. I can’t emphasize this post enough. Not that I know nothing, but I have had to coordinate over position coaches that are much more qualified for the job than me. What I appreciated is they didn’t try to force “their system” onto me. Rather they would talk ball with me and ask questions about how to defended something or help a bunch in breakdowns. When I didn’t have the answers they did and it helped me grow tremendously. They were the first guys to offer a hand and the first guys to add value to all aspects of the program. I’ve also had a guy that may have been more qualified than me tell me everything I did wrong on Saturday morning and play the hindsight is 20/20 with me. He added very little value to the staff and it was a miserable season for us both. So I again emphasize what the post above says! |
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Post by vicvinegar on Aug 6, 2021 20:58:40 GMT -6
Thanks, guys! You definitely helped me take a deep breath and just focus on my responsibilities. I have had a couple coaches ask my opinion either about the defense as a whole or with their position group, so maybe they are realizing that I'm capable of helping them. I still have to bite my tounge a lot, but hopefully that'll get better in time. I'm not use to losing, so I know Friday nights are probably going to be difficult.
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Post by vicvinegar on Aug 6, 2021 21:07:25 GMT -6
Do YOUR job to the best of your ability and things will end up alright. Coach the heck out of your position group and build your network. Talk ball with your staff. Ask questions from a standpoint of humility- get them to share what they do know and ask follow up questions- they may not realize they are deficient until the right questions are asked. Set the standard for work ethic and coaching professionalism. They may begin to seek out your opinion when they see your level of success. Good things will come to you. I can’t emphasize this post enough. Not that I know nothing, but I have had to coordinate over position coaches that are much more qualified for the job than me. What I appreciated is they didn’t try to force “their system” onto me. Rather they would talk ball with me and ask questions about how to defended something or help a bunch in breakdowns. When I didn’t have the answers they did and it helped me grow tremendously. They were the first guys to offer a hand and the first guys to add value to all aspects of the program. I’ve also had a guy that may have been more qualified than me tell me everything I did wrong on Saturday morning and play the hindsight is 20/20 with me. He added very little value to the staff and it was a miserable season for us both. So I again emphasize what the post above says! Well put! I should try to offer my opinion, while at the same time not stepping on toes. I've been around some great coordinators in the past, so I'm use to looking to them for answers. Now it's just a different role. |
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sbackes
Sophomore Member
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Post by sbackes on Aug 7, 2021 9:34:31 GMT -6
Do YOUR job to the best of your ability and things will end up alright. Coach the heck out of your position group and build your network. Talk ball with your staff. Ask questions from a standpoint of humility- get them to share what they do know and ask follow up questions- they may not realize they are deficient until the right questions are asked. Set the standard for work ethic and coaching professionalism. They may begin to seek out your opinion when they see your level of success. Good things will come to you. I can’t emphasize this post enough. Not that I know nothing, but I have had to coordinate over position coaches that are much more qualified for the job than me. What I appreciated is they didn’t try to force “their system” onto me. Rather they would talk ball with me and ask questions about how to defended something or help a bunch in breakdowns. When I didn’t have the answers they did and it helped me grow tremendously. They were the first guys to offer a hand and the first guys to add value to all aspects of the program. I’ve also had a guy that may have been more qualified than me tell me everything I did wrong on Saturday morning and play the hindsight is 20/20 with me. He added very little value to the staff and it was a miserable season for us both. So I again emphasize what the post above says! No doubt. Any fool can tell you why you lost the last one. A great coach helps you win the next one. |
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