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Post by ttowntiger on Jul 9, 2007 20:09:23 GMT -6
Some college coaching staffs almost always are willing to return phone calls and e-mails of HS coaches with football-related questions. Other staffs never return calls and e-mails and basically won't give you the time of day. I don't buy the "coaches are busy" excuse. Heck, we're all busy. I'll bet that if a coach they had previously ignored had 5 big-time prospects, they'd call or e-mail back with anything you might want to know about ASAP. Although I don't agree with everything he does, I like what Coach Propst from Hoover HS said. "If college coaches want my players, they better return my calls and e-mails." What would really make me mad is if a college coach who never contacted me back suddenly magically returned my messages once I had a prospect they were interested in. I would try my best to make sure my player didn't attend that school. College coaches should treat all HS coaches the same. That coach who has nothing now might suddenly be loaded with prospects a few years down the road. And trust me, we won't forget who has been helpful and kind and who has given us the cold shoulder. The purpose of my post is this. Which colleges that you have tried to contact have been helpful to you? Which ones won't give you the time of day? I thought a lot of coaches would like to know this so they would know who will help them and who they shouldn't waste their time with. Here are some of the ones I have tried to contact:
Helpful- Valdosta State (now at GA Southern), New Mexico State, USC (strength coach Chris Carlisle), Clemson, Georgia, UW-Platteville, Presbyterian College, Air Force (old staff)
Not helpful- Hawaii, Oklahoma, Gus Malzahn (at Ark & Tulsa), North Texas.
What are some of you guys experiences getting help from varios colleges and certain college coaching staffs?
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Post by ajreaper on Jul 9, 2007 21:40:47 GMT -6
I'll not smear any but several have ignored e-mails- which I find extremely rude. Heck tell me to go fly a kite they don't have time for the likes of me but at least respond. I'd never ask them for anything once August rolls around but hey if they don't have time in late May/June then when will they ever?
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 9, 2007 21:51:22 GMT -6
I'm with aj on this .. don't feel the need to "smear". plus, I don't know exactly how many requests those staffs are getting each off-season or what reason may cause them to appear "rude" or "unhelpful". most D-1's offer clinics in feb or march and allow you to watch their spring practices. usually, if i have made contact prior, they have allowed me or a staff i was on to come to their offices for meetings or film sharing, etc. I suggest contacting the football office, requesting a time to either visit spring football or speak with a coach at their place. go by "their" schedule and you more likely to get what you need. truth be told, i doubt very seriously the D-1 guys really want to 'horde' information from anyone, i just don't work a D-1 coach's schedule so have no idea how many requests for his time he or the staff receives each week.
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Post by phantom on Jul 9, 2007 22:29:30 GMT -6
I'm with aj on this .. don't feel the need to "smear". plus, I don't know exactly how many requests those staffs are getting each off-season or what reason may cause them to appear "rude" or "unhelpful". most D-1's offer clinics in feb or march and allow you to watch their spring practices. usually, if i have made contact prior, they have allowed me or a staff i was on to come to their offices for meetings or film sharing, etc. I suggest contacting the football office, requesting a time to either visit spring football or speak with a coach at their place. go by "their" schedule and you more likely to get what you need. truth be told, i doubt very seriously the D-1 guys really want to 'horde' information from anyone, i just don't work a D-1 coach's schedule so have no idea how many requests for his time he or the staff receives each week. I've found very few staffs to be uncooperative if you approach them properly. I agree with Huey's suggestion that you folow their schedule. Somebody had a problem with D.1 coaches not returning calls in May and June. May is an evaluation period and coaches are either off campus or meeting. Many staffs have camps in June. They also take vacations. In my experience many college coaches do not do email well. Many of the older coaches aren't that computer savvy and don't like e-mail. I have a lot more luck with phone calls. Call the secretary and ask what would be the best time to call. Also, if the school recruits your area, deal with the coach who recruits your area. For understandable reasons, it's easier to get access to coaches who have to deal with ther local HS coaches. Another thing that Huey has right is that you have a better chance if you visit the campus. In my experience, most staffs are quite cordial if you visit when they tell you that they have the time. Be discreet. Don't share learned info with other college staffs. Don't just call and ask for video or playbooks. Don't trade stuff that they give you. Don't go on the internet and brag about your connection. Don't expect the keys to the kingdom immediately. Why should they trust you with all the selling and trading of info until they know you. That's just my experience. |
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 9, 2007 22:29:36 GMT -6
for any fly guys out there speckman from willamette is great about returning emails. he is one hell of a guy
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Post by tog on Jul 9, 2007 23:37:28 GMT -6
tony demeo is as well
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Post by flycoach on Jul 10, 2007 0:11:24 GMT -6
for any fly guys out there speckman from willamette is great about returning emails. he is one hell of a guy Try not to hit speck up he is always getting hit from all angles. If you have questions about the FLY email his OC Fowles. ;D |
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Post by ajreaper on Jul 10, 2007 0:11:55 GMT -6
LOL, if you don't do e-mail well don't have an e-mail address on your card or posted on the website. And while it may be difficult to respond within 24-48 hours there's no excuse for not responding at all. Honestly we can choose pretty much anytime of the year and create an excuse as to why a college coach may ignore an e-mail or phone message from a high school coach but it's just that an excuse. Returning e-mails or phone calls in any profession is part of the job is it not?
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Post by davecisar on Jul 10, 2007 6:55:25 GMT -6
I have had some limited but interesting correspondence with DI coaches. I wrote letters of encouragement to Turner Gill and John Blake (When at Oklahoma). Both responded with full page lenghty handwritten letters of their own. Gills was 2 pages. Both letters were written in the middle of football season. Heck I felt bad getting a return letter and stealing their time, I had not asked any questions that needed to be answered etc they just wrote me back. With the exception of Tom Osborne, they were the only 2 letters Ive ever written to DI Coaches.
When my book was endorsed by Tom Osborne, he returned my letter with a phone call within 3-4 days of when the letter was mailed. He was the very first to call me of the 20 letters I sent out and I had never met the man, while others on the list had done clinics for me or I had even coached their kids.
So 3-3 with the guys Ive tried to contact.
Had a similar experience with Bobby Bowden this year at the Nike COY Clinic in Orlando.
My guess is many of the greats take the time to do it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2007 7:16:57 GMT -6
I've had great response from some guys I never thought I'd get it from. I'm excluding some guys that I personally know, but ones who I've run into at clinics that were great included Bob Elliot from K-State, Bill Doba from Wash. State (going back YEARS), John Skledany from Iowa State, and Paul Chryst now at Wisconsin. None of those guys recruited our kids.
But one college coach who I met while we had a few kids at their Individual camp gave me the old "if I can do anything for you let me know" and gave me his card. I emailed him right away, nothing. Waited through the season and spring ball and emailed him--nothing. Met him again at the camp, asked if I could bother him for 10 minutes--he said he'd meet me at the office at the end of camp. So I sent the kids to the bookstore and went to meet him. . .he didn't show.
And this is a school that would take an interest in some of our kids. The guy is an assistant but three strikes and you're out. He's knowledgeable, but not that knowledgeable.
For me it's simple. If you don't want me to call or email, don't hand out business cards and say "if there's anything I can do, please contact me."
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Post by phantom on Jul 10, 2007 9:02:05 GMT -6
Irish, I know that it happens because I had something semi-similar happen to me. I took a kid to camp at a college once. The school was recruiting the kid so they invited him to the office to meet the HC after the camp ended. When we got to the offices the sevretary told us that the HC had left. Oh, well. Now, Irish, the rest is a general reply, not addressed specifically to you.
I think that the key is personal contact. Email is anonymous and impersonal. It's also easy to forget. I've done it myself. I've received emails from a coach with a question and, because the answer would take some time, put it off to later. Well, before I knew it, "later" the email was three pages back and forgotten. I eventually got back to them but it was weeks later. It happens.
Don't completely discount the idea that some older coaches are uncomfortable with email. Sure they have an email address on their business card but they don't design the format of the card. I've had guys hand me a card and tell me that they don't use email because they don't get computers. Sure they use computers every day but that just means that they've learned how to press the right buttons to watch video. The video guys and GAs do the heavy lifting.
People just respond better when you make a personal investment. I think that you have a much better chance with calls or visits than with emails.
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Post by brophy on Jul 10, 2007 9:16:27 GMT -6
I'm with aj on this .. don't feel the need to "smear". plus, I don't know exactly how many requests those staffs are getting each off-season or what reason may cause them to appear "rude" or "unhelpful". most D-1's offer clinics in feb or march and allow you to watch their spring practices. usually, if i have made contact prior, they have allowed me or a staff i was on to come to their offices for meetings or film sharing, etc. I would have to agree. I also will add my measley two cents. DI programs are nice and are cool on TV. Those programs are great..... BUT you can probably learn A LOT (more) from the smaller schools who you may find considerably more accomodating. I think the 'prestige' factor of Top Tier programs can cloud some coaches perception of what is 'good' and what is 'bad'. It sounds a lot cooler to say " I spent a day with Coach King Almighty from Superior University"........ ......rather than saying "the staff at Zippity Doo Day Tech let me watch video, their practices, and ask some questions..."Doesn't matter if a program has conference titles or whatever, if they can accomodate you, you have an opportunity to learn SOMETHING (as well as network) with guys at a higher level of competition. You could spend 2 weeks with Pete Carroll at USC, but unless your school is being fed with 6'4" 225lbs athletes consistently, how does their schemes apply to your situation? These coaches are men just like us. They have priorities in life. Emailing a coach and asking for everything under the sun, asking for video, cutups, playbooks, answers to everything you will see in the season is a good way to come off as self-serving and inclined to not really use it. I could give a list of programs who have been accomodating, but I haven't experienced a program NOT willing to have a coach visit. Anytime I've ever visited a staff, they have all been willing to let me hang out and watch video. |
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Post by spartancoach on Jul 10, 2007 9:25:02 GMT -6
Here in NJ, Coach Schiano at Rutgers is one of the best. Always helpful above and beyond the call.
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Post by phantom on Jul 10, 2007 9:28:47 GMT -6
I'm with aj on this .. don't feel the need to "smear". plus, I don't know exactly how many requests those staffs are getting each off-season or what reason may cause them to appear "rude" or "unhelpful". most D-1's offer clinics in feb or march and allow you to watch their spring practices. usually, if i have made contact prior, they have allowed me or a staff i was on to come to their offices for meetings or film sharing, etc. I would have to agree. I also will add my measley two cents. DI programs are nice and are cool on TV. Those programs are great..... BUT you can probably learn A LOT (more) from the smaller schools who you may find considerably more accomodating. I think the 'prestige' factor of Top Tier programs can cloud some coaches perception of what is 'good' and what is 'bad'. It sounds a lot cooler to say " I spent a day with Coach King Almighty from Superior University"........ ......rather than saying "the staff at Zippity Doo Day Tech let me watch video, their practices, and ask some questions..."Doesn't matter if a program has conference titles or whatever, if they can accomodate you, you have an opportunity to learn SOMETHING (as well as network) with guys at a higher level of competition. You could spend 2 weeks with Pete Carroll at USC, but unless your school is being fed with 6'4" 225lbs athletes consistently, how does their schemes apply to your situation? These coaches are men just like us. They have priorities in life. Emailing a coach and asking for everything under the sun, asking for video, cutups, playbooks, answers to everything you will see in the season is a good way to come off as self-serving and inclined to not really use it. The other advantage of contacting lower level programs is that they have experience with playing against more diverse offenses and defenses. We visited a 1AA school stis spring and asked about defending wingbone. The DC immediately said, "We see that three times a year.". They showed us what they do, talked us through it on video, and gave us a video to take home. I doubt that Pete Carroll has much wingbone video. |
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Post by brophy on Jul 10, 2007 9:36:19 GMT -6
The only guy that was really rude to me in coaching was Charlie McBride of Nebraska............HOWEVER, I would've been short with me, too, back then  I was/am an idiot. ....I love Charlie McBride, dude rocks. also, if you want VIDEO, specifically, email the VC's directly - they hold the keys to the kingdom. You want to attend Pro practices? CALL the assistant to the HC or GM of the franchise. Be direct - get to the point - and don't waste these guys' time. I can personally attest that these guys are bonafide A1 class-acts, willing to help anyone out;
Illinois State (Brad Cornelson, Ron Lambert, Galen Scott, and the rest of the staff)
Augustana College (Jim Barnes)
St.Ambrose University (formerly Todd Sturdy, Steve Bakeris & Ross Parker)
Western Illinois University (Don Patterson & former DC Vince Okruch)
University of Iowa (Norm Parker, Reese Morgan, & Matt Englebert)
Upper Iowa University (formerly Courtney Messingham & Jack Lambert)
Southeastern University (Tommy Condell)
Henderson State (Scott Maxfield)
Northeast Mississippi College (Dave Wilkerson)
University of Louisiana (Tim ReBowe & Blake Anderson)
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Post by spreadattack on Jul 10, 2007 11:39:38 GMT -6
Maybe the best thing for this thread would be to just focus on the most generous or helpful programs. Maybe state who you thought was really helpful, maybe a brief description of what they did for you, and how you went about contacting them. If we just ignore the "not helpful" discussion I think this could be a great thread.
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Post by phantom on Jul 10, 2007 12:19:33 GMT -6
I can't think of any program in Virginia at any level that wasn't helpful. We've also gotten help from Penn State, Maryland, UNC, ECU, Wake, NC State, and Middle Tennessee (and I'm sure that I've forgotten some). There's a JC guy (not sure where he is now) named Tim Schaffner who really went out of his way to help us out a few years ago.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2007 12:22:16 GMT -6
You know what Phantom, I agree completely, and I always prefer to make personal contact. I guess I feel like a guy who doesn't make an effort to show up 20 minutes after he said to meet him and it's the 3rd time he didn't do it, he wouldn't do it any way at all.
But I agree--the ones that are helpful are awesome. Got one connection with a coach who is fantastic. I can leave this guy a message on a Wednesday during the season and he'll call back ASAP and will always have 10-15 minutes to talk to me.
And I return the generosity by not bugging him at every little turn and always send him some Thank you's.
Seriously, though, Bob Elliot talked about this once at a clinic. He said, "I always give out my card to you guys and have a million people asking if they can get ahold of me and I say yes. But the number that actually get ahold of me is tiny. I suppose if everyone that said they'd write to me actually followed through then I'd have to quit giving out my card."
Lot of logic in that.
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Post by Coach Huey on Jul 10, 2007 17:32:42 GMT -6
... Email is anonymous and impersonal. It's also easy to forget. I've done it myself. I've received emails from a coach with a question and, because the answer would take some time, put it off to later. Well, before I knew it, "later" the email was three pages back and forgotten. I eventually got back to them but it was weeks later. It happens. ... I can definitely vouch for this. I'm bad about this, myself.  |
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Post by ttowntiger on Jul 10, 2007 19:47:20 GMT -6
Okay, I agree. Let's eliminate the "unhelpful" part of it and focus one the ones who are helpful. Also, I've never dealt with them, but I've heard the University of Texas always has a coach available for any questions, etc. that high school coaches may have. If that's true, it's no wonder Mack Brown always gets the recruits! Can anyone vouch for Texas being helpful. I also agree 100% that some of the best coaches are at smaller colleges and are often a lot easier to get help from. Guys like Chris Hatcher. Although he moved up to 1AA (Ga Southern), I'm still shocked he hasn't gotten a !A head coaching job yet.
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tt5050
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Post by tt5050 on Jul 11, 2007 9:47:50 GMT -6
Most college coaches are only helpful when you got a player. You are their best buddy then, when that kid is gone, you are nothing to them. When they come into see you, they say call me or come down if you need anything, then you call, and you get nothing. BGSU and Toledo here in Ohio to name a few
Jim Tressel at Ohio State is the most humble guy I have ever met, and loves to talk to high school coaches and is very accommodating with his busy schedule...Their whole staff is great.
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kdcoach
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Post by kdcoach on Jul 11, 2007 10:57:07 GMT -6
Here in PA we have a great D2 conference that most all of the coaches that I have contacted have been very helpful. Also a couple of D3 schools that are the same way. I've spent time with Bucknell and Navy at their place and they were both incredibly accomodating.
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Post by coachcathey on Jul 11, 2007 21:37:36 GMT -6
Yeah, most coaches go out of their way.
A couple of years ago, the entire staff spent the day with Carson Newmans staff. Spent time with Spark for about an hour, then with Turner for awhile. Then we watched practice.
Good experience, especially learning about the Veer.
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Post by oguru on Jul 11, 2007 21:54:40 GMT -6
Okay seeing that I ahev very good connection in division one and just recently have been hired as at a scholarship school in North Dakota I will give you the typical college football coaches yearly schedule
August-Decemebr -Football,Football Football. Say good buy to the fmaily because you don't get to see them much
Decemebr-February-RECRUITING,RECRUITING,RECRUITING
February-March- Some vacation time about 2 weeks and the preping for spring ball, some seaking at clinics as well if asked.
March-April-Spring Ball
May-RECRUITING, RECRUITING,RECRUITING
1st part of JUNE Summer camps
2nd part of June and 1st two weeks of July VACATION GET OUT OF THE OFFICE AND STAY OUT
last 2 weeks of July-Offce getting ready for the season.
Know with a total of six weeks of vacation thats not much time to be away from their 365/7 day a week job the rest of the year.Which is wahts college coaching is August-February with recruiting and the season.
Give the gusy a break. Emails are inpersonable.
Also I will disagree about the comment about Bowling Green. I got this job in February and we went to visit them we called them set it up,and they were very cordiall. Know Toledo will not give out cut ups,or even allow coaches to watch cut ups.
As far as my school. PM me and I will let you know where it is. I will even give you my email address as long as that privelage is not abused.
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Post by ttowntiger on Jul 12, 2007 21:05:26 GMT -6
Oguru,
I think the fact that there are so many that DO help even the smallest of high schools.shoots down the lame "busy" excuse. It just makes me mad to see some college coaches completely ignore a high school coach because he thinks that coach and his team are so insignificant and them come a runnin' and a kissin' when that same HS coach has 5 big time prospects 3 years later.
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Post by wingtol on Jul 13, 2007 6:25:19 GMT -6
We had a great experience with Art Kehoe when he was at Miami. He was recruiting one of our players (in NW PA in December) and stopped by a few practices and films session. The staff became friendly with him and he of course gave us the come on down be gald to help you with anything. So of course we did. When we got there he said he was real busy and didnt know how much time he would have with us, needless to say he ended up staying with us for the entire day and even took us out to lunch at a hooters (which normally have some good looking waitress but in Miami.........) since he had some "special discount card" from the U. Spent the rest of the day giving us cut ups, his O-Line tapes, anything we wanted, took us in with Cooker to get pics of the Nat. Champ. trophy. The next day he was on the road but had his GA get us anything we wanted and get some of the other coaches to come in. Was a great experience and he was one of the most helpful coaches at the college level I have met. Say what you want about the U but that was a great exp with their coaches.
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Post by spartancoach on Jul 13, 2007 9:11:16 GMT -6
Everyone is busy. You make time if you want to.
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Post by tripleoption61 on Jul 13, 2007 11:37:38 GMT -6
all the guys at navy have been great. answered all my emails and phone calls. invited me to campus and watch film thos eguys have been great.
jerks-
paul chryst (wisconsin)-- he had no problems returning phone calls when they were recruiting my kid. then when i want to work their camp like i did when alvarez was in town it was no problem. all of a sudden he wont return my calls and emails. forget you! then u have a g.a. call me to tell me you have no time to call. forget you your never getting a kid from me again!
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Post by airman on Jul 13, 2007 13:11:14 GMT -6
rob spence is one of the nicest guys. he and I traded some stuff one time. so I call him, he is the oc at hofstra at the time. we talked for 2 hrs on the phone. he would ahve talked longer had I not said I had to go. nice guy.
june jones is a really protective guy until you fly to hawaii and sit down with him. he will share any thing. the one thing he does not make public is pass protection cause he changed it from what mouse davis did. privately he will share though. you just have to go visit.
I used to try adn contact college coaches but found most are really not that interested in sharing a lot via film or playbooks. I had one explain it like this, every time we give material out it seems to endup on the internet for trade. they have jobs to protect adn I understand this. it used to be playbooks were easy to come by about 10 years ago, not it is really hard.
the best guys i know are at d2 or d3. they seem ready to share just about anything. most of those guys are in the coaching gig for different reasons then the money.
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Post by touchdowng on Jul 13, 2007 13:33:28 GMT -6
Have contacted many NCAA coaches over the past 20 or so years. Only one would not take the time. There were dozens upon dozens who came through and some came through above and beyond the call of duty.
Can't think of many other professions who share as well as our does - especially on a free basis. Don't get upset or disenchanted with the few who are protecting their "stuff". They are in the minority and probably have their rationale for being a closed shop.
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I was/am an idiot.
