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Post by coachcalande on Oct 9, 2007 13:26:50 GMT -6
Do any of you varsity HC guys make it manditory that your feeder teams include say 10 minutes of tackling and 10 minutes of blocking or other fundamentals into each practice? I would think that even if you couldnt get the lowers to run your exact system that you could get them to teach fundies every practice, yknow, the way you want it done?...thoughts?
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Post by wingt74 on Oct 9, 2007 13:39:18 GMT -6
Do any of you varsity HC guys make it manditory that your feeder teams include say 10 minutes of tackling and 10 minutes of blocking or other fundamentals into each practice? I would think that even if you couldnt get the lowers to run your exact system that you could get them to teach fundies every practice, yknow, the way you want it done?...thoughts? I coach youth football. At minimum, we work on the basics of blocking or tackling every practice for 15-20 minutes. Drills are changed a bit...but otherwise, I make that commitment. |
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Post by coachmoore42 on Oct 9, 2007 15:30:03 GMT -6
Anyone who would listen and do what is best for the varsity program in the eyes of the HC is usually already smart enough to be doing at least that much fundamental work.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 9, 2007 17:45:51 GMT -6
well, i have witnessed a bunch of scrimmaging and conditioning by some ms and youth teams (and even one hs team) with very little work done on the fundies. anyhow, the point is, youth teams that develp kids who LIKE CONTACT AND CAN DO IT WELL are much more valuable to a varsity team than anything else. just my opinion.
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Post by jraybern on Oct 9, 2007 17:49:41 GMT -6
I am the HS varsity head coach and I have a GREAT middle school head coach who works a ton on fundamentals. It seems all they do over there is block and tackle (I know thats not all they do but they do it a lot). I don't TELL him to do anything. He came in the first day and wanted my playbook so he could run my system. The guy is awesome to have around.
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Post by coachmoore42 on Oct 9, 2007 18:15:29 GMT -6
well, i have witnessed a bunch of scrimmaging and conditioning by some ms and youth teams (and even one hs team) with very little work done on the fundies. We were guilty of too much scrimmaging a few years ago. Two clinic seasons and a year on Huey's site later, we now try to spend much less time scrimmaging. Although I think we should scrimmage more than we did this season. |
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Post by midlineqb on Oct 9, 2007 18:31:22 GMT -6
You have got to work on the fundamentals every day for every position and every technique regardless of the level that you coach. If you don't you are just spinning your wheels into a downhill slide that is going to be hard to get out of.
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50Murf
Sophomore Member
Posts: 212
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Post by 50Murf on Oct 9, 2007 19:37:30 GMT -6
The first half hour of every practice is spent on the fundies, 10 mins of stretching, agility, 10 mins on tackling, and then 10 mins on blocking.
We try to get each kid 10 good tackles a day, so that is 50 a week (that is just during fundie time, they get more in their indy time and their team time) and these are good tackles, with all of the coaches watching closely. If a kid has a problem, which is usually in the beginning of the year, he goes into a special group that works on tackling/blocking even more, and by this time of the year (Game 6 out of 7) most of the kids are real good at it.
I have not had the luxury of having great athletes, great team speed, or good team size, but we make up for it with toughness, tenacity, and good fundamentals. Our record does not indicate it this year, but IMO, because we STRESS fundamentals we were in games that we should have never been in.
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Post by mtsooner on Oct 11, 2007 13:10:44 GMT -6
What's really annoying is when you spend time teaching those fundamentals 20-30 minutes EVERYDAY the year before, and by the time the season is done, your kids are crisp and sharp on fundamentals. Then, you send your kids to the next level where they spend 75% of practice time scrimmaging other squads and, in the process, lose most of what you taught them the year before!!!
I really have a hard time understanding how some HS coaches can really not seem to grasp how important fundamentals are???
S.R.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 11, 2007 15:26:19 GMT -6
amen! couldnt agree more with that.
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Post by coachsky on Oct 11, 2007 18:28:37 GMT -6
I think it's a funny questions coming from Coach Steve. When you were a middle school HC you were adamantly against a HS HC dictating anything to you.
I certainly agree with what you are saying. I am a position coach and I constantly have to fight for Indy time to work fundamentals. It seems like the recievers coach and rb coach have no problem cutting indie time to work group. I want a minimum of 20 minutes of Indy time and there is constant requests to cut it short. I ussually don't budge. The minute we struggle offensively the first place the fingers get pointed at is the line. It's never RB hitting the holes hard or reading properly, it's never stalk blocking.
Where I coach now we don't have a true feeder system but this year we had a camp and coaching clinic and gave the coaches all kinds of material. I have been to all most all the youth teams practices and gone over blocking skills and drills. We gave our Youth Coaches practice templates that include a daily blocking and tackling circuit.
I'm not sure that any feeder program is set up to make anything mandatory, it can certainly be encourage and recommended.
You can certainly send a message:
- Skills development is a daily exercise, the most important thing a coach can do.
- Group and team time without a defined purpose and attention to detail are poor use of time.
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coachh
Junior Member
Posts: 336
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Post by coachh on Oct 11, 2007 19:50:59 GMT -6
So how much time would you spend then in a typical day for two hour practice working on fundamentals at the Varsity level.
Since you are also talking about lower levels - what % would you say Frosh and Soph should spend on fundamentals.
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Shotgun1
Sophomore Member
It is better to die trying than to quit...
Posts: 214
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Post by Shotgun1 on Oct 11, 2007 20:39:37 GMT -6
MS level and we spend 1 hour a day on fundamentals. Oline or Dline spend the entire hour together and other groups break up and work position fundamentals then come together for group followed by a 30 minute team period. First 10 minutes after warm up is spent on special teams (1 per day) and we will work kickoff team in for conditioning at the end 2 days/week as kids fill in the lines and pursuit. We will also have 10 minutes of tackling and 10 minutes of conditioning. With 10 minutes of warmup and 2 water breaks practice ends up being 2 hours and 10 minutes at a very high tempo. Water breaks are 2 minutes each and all kids are given their own water bottles to bring to practice and we bring out 2 large water coolers. When we break for water they all jog over and get a drink, we blow the whistle they have 10 seconds to get where they need to be or the entire team does grass drills. We stress good fundamentals and hard work in the short amount of time we get.
We run the high school system but our other middle school does not. We have a 7th grade and an 8th grade team at our middle school and during individuals we all work together learning the same terminology and techniques that the HS does. We do not have a diversified student body and not much speed on our team like the other middle schools in our league. We have found out that individual work builds better players and helps us beat many of the teams that are better athletically. However, when you have 22/23 kids on the team and most other teams in our league have 45+ we our putting some kids in positions that they would never really play on another team. We are 1-1-1 on the year so far and lost to an 8th grade team with 60+, tied one and beat one both with 50+.
Our other MS has a 7th and 8th grade team and they do nothing together but scrimmage each other every Friday for an hour. Their other practices have very little indy time and they spend a lot of time in team going live. Neither of their teams have won yet this year.
Sorry for the rant but around 50% individual time working on position fundamentals and another 10 minutes per day of tackling.
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Post by brophy on Oct 11, 2007 20:48:49 GMT -6
what if two years ago........the varsity coach came down to Boone and said.
"I want the OL at 2' splits duck walking working trunch punches.......NO shoulder blocks!"
How would that shoe fit?
If you aren't developing fundamentals at sub-Varsity levels, then what in the world are you coaching for? There is a purpose and rationale behind "lower level" coaching.
Winning is great, but it rarely comes consistently without proper fundamentals.
We can blame all the folks we want and point fingers at other programs, but we can only coach one team at a time (if we're lucky). There are no shortcuts to success.
Working fundamentals shouldn't be some drawn-out ordeal. It should be able to take place at a fast pace, 1-2 steps, so everyone can get multiple reps non-stop. Hand placement, foot placement, head placement........simple, bullet-proof, short executions of the larger picture.
It is in every head coach's best interest as the leader of a PROGRAM to invest in the players and coaches of his feeder program. This ain't rocket science.
With all your grammatical and spelling errors, I hope you aren't an english teacher.
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Post by midlineqb on Oct 11, 2007 22:14:09 GMT -6
Fundamentals create success. Without fundamentals the players are like fish out of water. By taking care of the little things the big things take care of themselves. Just some thoughts on this thread.
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Post by coachcoyote on Oct 12, 2007 1:01:44 GMT -6
I'm a HS running back coach, and I'll fight for every minute I can get. Group work is great with the OL, but I like as much indy time we can get. It's usually 10 min and the "O" coor isn't as cooperative as he might be.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 12, 2007 2:59:30 GMT -6
Some coaches arent in a position to make things manditory- trust me on that!
I am aware of several varsity coaches that didnt even have playbooks made and certainly didnt have coaching expectations in any kind of format. They really couldnt provide much for their lowers. Im not sure some of them had any clue as to where they wanted the program to go.
Good coaches have a plan, if you are the head coach and you want everyone in your feeder program to run your xs and os, great, my point has to do with going beyond the xs and os and terms and putting it down that you want the kids to love contact and be able to block and tackle well...more than just words but laying out the expectations that a certain portion of every practice be used for contact.
The reality is that kids who are taught well fundamentally and love contact are more than likely more useful than those just taught in the same offensive and defensive systems and terms.
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Post by coachcalande on Oct 12, 2007 3:27:31 GMT -6
Heres another practice drill that makes me cringe
some of you will relate to this one...
long line of pee wee players waiting their turn at "going deep" while the pee wee coach (or really poor varsity coach in some cases) goes thru his five step drop and heaves bombs that he admires. the kids that dont catch the ball chase the bounching thing all over the field, retrieve it and jog it back to the coach who admires yet another one of his passes. kids stand in line for one or two "patterns"... no player throws the ball, no line coming back in the other direction...what a waste of time.
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2007 7:11:44 GMT -6
The top guys out there at the Nike and Glazier Clinics ( Dodge, Bowden, Tyrone W etc) that I have asked " What do you think youth football programs that feed primariy into one High School should be teaching?' To a man they all said they wanted kids to love the game/have a passion for playig the game and play the next year and that they could block and tackle well. Not one coach said anything about schemes.
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Post by coachd5085 on Oct 13, 2007 9:13:10 GMT -6
I had always believed that if you spent 80% of your practice time on blocking (base, down, reach, kick) and tackling (form, cross-the-bow, open field --emphasizing working on "creeping", never "breaking down"--disengage and tackle, and filling the hole) at the 7th and 8 grade level, you could be successful running 4 plays, 2 defenses, the kids would see improvement and success, and it would lead to a solid program.
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Post by los on Oct 13, 2007 19:50:27 GMT -6
I agree with that 100% d-50 and add 5-10 % ball security  |
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Post by davecisar on Oct 13, 2007 20:09:36 GMT -6
I had always believed that if you spent 80% of your practice time on blocking (base, down, reach, kick) and tackling (form, cross-the-bow, open field --emphasizing working on "creeping", never "breaking down"--disengage and tackle, and filling the hole) at the 7th and 8 grade level, you could be successful running 4 plays, 2 defenses, the kids would see improvement and success, and it would lead to a solid program. Amen, we are pretty close to that % and we always show solid improvement and compete. We have HS coaches fighting over our kids, the local Jesuit School Prep School usually offers several free rides ( Over $10k in tutition) Job #1 is get the kids to come back and play another year. |
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