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Post by groundchuck on Jun 1, 2021 9:37:12 GMT -6
I read a successful HS coach say that the real essence of coaching is finding talent and getting it on the field.
Thoughts on that?
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Post by blb on Jun 1, 2021 9:53:15 GMT -6
I read a successful HS coach say that the real essence of coaching is finding talent and getting it on the field. Thoughts on that? "Developing" might be more appropriate word than "finding." |
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Post by rsmith627 on Jun 1, 2021 10:00:08 GMT -6
Agree with blb on the idea of developing talent over just finding it. We have several teams in our area who are loaded up with some pretty top notch talent and for whatever reason it just doesn't translate to wins. I think a lot of that falls back to coaching and development.
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Post by tripsclosed on Jun 1, 2021 10:22:15 GMT -6
I read a successful HS coach say that the real essence of coaching is finding talent and getting it on the field. Thoughts on that? Eh, disagree with that. The real essence of coaching is helping players to become the best that they can be as individuals and as a collective. |
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Post by aceback76 on Jun 1, 2021 10:33:31 GMT -6
We have always followed Ara Parseghian's great lecture at the AFCA. He said that "coaching" encompassed 4 areas:
1. PERSONNEL ("who" you teach)
2. COACHING ("how" you teach)
3. STRATEGY ("what" you teach)
4. MORALE = basic factor that controls the "who", "how", & "what".
He added that if you have 4 and 1, 2 & 3 will come easy. We have his lecture/talk in the very front of our Coaches' Manual.
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Post by newhope on Jun 1, 2021 10:40:30 GMT -6
I read a successful HS coach say that the real essence of coaching is finding talent and getting it on the field. Thoughts on that? "Developing" might be more appropriate word than "finding." For a LOT of them these days, it's finding. They don't develop.....they go find at somebody else's place. It's almost like there's a high school transfer portal in some areas. |
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Post by coachscdub on Jun 1, 2021 11:15:32 GMT -6
I would think that the 'finding' talent phrasing is more in relation to sorting out what each kid does best and letting them specialize in that, as opposed to just playing a kid somewhere because you think he should play there.
For example, you have a kid who is an absolute rocket of an athlete, crazy speed and agility (you think damn this kid should play slot wr) well it turns out he cant catch even catch a cold. so instead of making him run routes with the hopes he might catch a ball you realize he is great at Jet Sweeps, so you hand him the ball instead. To me that is 'finding' talent, you find out what the kid does best and don't force him to do what he cant.
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 2, 2021 7:33:14 GMT -6
I would think that the 'finding' talent phrasing is more in relation to sorting out what each kid does best and letting them specialize in that, as opposed to just playing a kid somewhere because you think he should play there. For example, you have a kid who is an absolute rocket of an athlete, crazy speed and agility (you think damn this kid should play slot wr) well it turns out he cant catch even catch a cold. so instead of making him run routes with the hopes he might catch a ball you realize he is great at Jet Sweeps, so you hand him the ball instead. To me that is 'finding' talent, you find out what the kid does best and don't force him to do what he cant. That is how I interpreted the phrase as well. Regardless, I do not agree with the statement. The real essence of coaching is creating an environment in which players are able to reach their potential. |
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Post by mrjvi on Jun 2, 2021 9:00:54 GMT -6
If I had to rely on finding talent at our small school, we'd rarely win a game. I ALWAYS need to develop kids that want to play and hope some talent rises from that. The best teams here have developed talent mostly but have an added bonus of a few or even 1 or 2 talented kids that puts them over the top. Right now the kids who are still remote are making no effort to come into school for workouts at all. 11 weeks away from the official start bodes poorly for us this year. I can't develop kids who don't show.
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Post by 19delta on Jun 2, 2021 9:11:11 GMT -6
I heard a story from a guy who attended a clinic at Nebraska when Tom Osbourne was the head coach. The clinic was for high school option offenses. The coaches are all on the field learning drills and techniques from Nebraska assistant coaches, GAs, and players. Osbourne shows up and walks through the session, shaking hands and making small talk. He comes up to a group of high coaches and asks if they are learning anything good. One guy asks Osbourne some question about footwork...real minutiae stuff. Osbourne doesn't respond to the question. He simply says, "You guys want to know the secret to winning football games? Get better players than your opponents." He shakes a few more hands, signs some books, and then walks off to another group.
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Post by 19delta on Jun 2, 2021 9:13:28 GMT -6
I read a successful HS coach say that the real essence of coaching is finding talent and getting it on the field. Thoughts on that? "Developing" might be more appropriate word than "finding." Eh...I'm not so sure about that. The entire "Feed The Cats" approach is based on prioritizing recruitment over development. |
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Jun 2, 2021 9:14:48 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 9:14:48 GMT -6
I heard a story from a guy who attended a clinic at Nebraska when Tom Osbourne was the head coach. The clinic was for high school option offenses. The coaches are all on the field learning drills and techniques from Nebraska assistant coaches, GAs, and players. Osbourne shows up and walks through the session, shaking hands and making small talk. He comes up to a group of high coaches and asks if they are learning anything good. One guy asks Osbourne some question about footwork...real minutiae stuff. Osbourne doesn't respond to the question. He simply says, "You guys want to know the secret to winning football games? Get better players than your opponents." He shakes a few more hands, signs some books, and then walks off to another group. He is right. |
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Jun 2, 2021 12:22:46 GMT -6
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 2, 2021 12:22:46 GMT -6
"Developing" might be more appropriate word than "finding." Eh...I'm not so sure about that. The entire "Feed The Cats" approach is based on prioritizing recruitment over development. Exactly. If you read Hollers statement on why he started it was to keep kids in track over the "easier" baseball. From his statement- My teams would be under-trained, but we would win because of our superior talent and our love of the sport. |
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Post by chi5hi on Jun 2, 2021 12:53:36 GMT -6
I read a successful HS coach say that the real essence of coaching is finding talent and getting it on the field. Thoughts on that? I think it's knowing enough about the game that will enable you to take the talent that you have into a workable O and D. |
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Jun 2, 2021 12:57:26 GMT -6
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Post by 19delta on Jun 2, 2021 12:57:26 GMT -6
Eh...I'm not so sure about that. The entire "Feed The Cats" approach is based on prioritizing recruitment over development. Exactly. If you read Hollers statement on why he started it was to keep kids in track over the "easier" baseball. From his statement- My teams would be under-trained, but we would win because of our superior talent and our love of the sport. I don't think Holler's approach is inherently wrong. |
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Jun 2, 2021 13:24:58 GMT -6
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 2, 2021 13:24:58 GMT -6
Exactly. If you read Hollers statement on why he started it was to keep kids in track over the "easier" baseball. From his statement- My teams would be under-trained, but we would win because of our superior talent and our love of the sport. I don't think Holler's approach is inherently wrong. I don't personally agree with going out of our way to make everything easier. Both in sport and in general life. |
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Post by 19delta on Jun 2, 2021 14:34:21 GMT -6
I don't think Holler's approach is inherently wrong. I don't personally agree with going out of our way to make everything easier. Both in sport and in general life. If you are able to make your program attractive to the best athletes in the school, things will get easier for you as a coach. For me, the question is,what happens to the average kids? Do those kids ever get a chance in a FTC program? |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 2, 2021 15:59:35 GMT -6
Exactly. If you read Hollers statement on why he started it was to keep kids in track over the "easier" baseball. From his statement- My teams would be under-trained, but we would win because of our superior talent and our love of the sport. I don't think Holler's approach is inherently wrong. Doesn't the most important part of this particular discussion then become "what is trained vs undertrained". I think one could easily envision a FB coach saying the same thing... meaning he wasn't going 5 days a week 3 hours a day in the summer. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 2, 2021 17:36:54 GMT -6
I don't personally agree with going out of our way to make everything easier. Both in sport and in general life. If you are able to make your program attractive to the best athletes in the school, things will get easier for you as a coach. For me, the question is,what happens to the average kids? Do those kids ever get a chance in a FTC program? If they're just coming out because it's easier, I don't want to deal with the extra baggage a kid like that's going to bring. Any ease to me by having "better" athletes is going to go away with the other crap they're going to bring. Just my .02. Plus, having been a HC track and football, they're WORLDS apart in discipline. |
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Post by 19delta on Jun 2, 2021 18:29:44 GMT -6
If you are able to make your program attractive to the best athletes in the school, things will get easier for you as a coach. For me, the question is,what happens to the average kids? Do those kids ever get a chance in a FTC program? If they're just coming out because it's easier, I don't want to deal with the extra baggage a kid like that's going to bring. Any ease to me by having "better" athletes is going to go away with the other crap they're going to bring. Just my .02. Plus, having been a HC track and football, they're WORLDS apart in discipline. Yes. I generally agree with this statement. I think there is a very fine line between a program that is "fun" and a program devoid of accountability. Takes a special coach to be able to tread that line. |
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Post by mrjvi on Jun 2, 2021 18:43:26 GMT -6
Larrymoe-I agree completely. When I was just starting out a neighboring city school FB coach made a "deal" with the basketball players that if they came to practice for an hour twice a week and to games that they could go play basketball all the other days. Sounded great to the basketball players. Worked until the 2nd week. Those players were PITA after they felt they were elite and the rest of the FB team started quitting because of the special treatment. He abandoned it soon after but never recovered that season. I'd rather lose with players that want to be there than deal with the headaches. Still recruit but get to know the kids better before getting too excited.
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Post by carookie on Jun 2, 2021 19:03:30 GMT -6
How many of you have a significant amount of talent walking around your school but NOT playing? Now and then we'll get a kid or two who could help, but whose parents don't want them to play football; or someone who feels like they need to just focus on another sport. But its rare that I can remember a swing of more than a win's worth of talent being on campus but not playing on the team.
That being written, finding talent on other teams and poaching them is VERY real out here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 19:11:35 GMT -6
How many of you have a significant amount of talent walking around your school but NOT playing? Now and then we'll get a kid or two who could help, but whose parents don't want them to play football; or someone who feels like they need to just focus on another sport. But its rare that I can remember a swing of more than a win's worth of talent being on campus but not playing on the team. That being written, finding talent on other teams and poaching them is VERY real out here. If we could get 5 pct of the STUDS walking around our campus who are just inelgible, we would have won a couple of state titles already. We easily have 100 kids, any of whom who’m would start right now, walking our hall ways who have no chance to be eligible EVER. You know the kicker to that is and the crime? |
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Post by carookie on Jun 2, 2021 19:20:04 GMT -6
How many of you have a significant amount of talent walking around your school but NOT playing? Now and then we'll get a kid or two who could help, but whose parents don't want them to play football; or someone who feels like they need to just focus on another sport. But its rare that I can remember a swing of more than a win's worth of talent being on campus but not playing on the team. That being written, finding talent on other teams and poaching them is VERY real out here. If we could get 5 pct of the STUDS walking around our campus who are just inelgible, we would have won a couple of state titles already. We easily have 100 kids, any of whom who’m would start right now, walking our hall ways who have no chance to be eligible EVER. You know the kicker to that is and the crime? WOW, really? I worked at some pretty rough places, literally a school in the city deemed "worst in the state of California". Didn't have many kids who I felt would contribute that were ineligible. Thats not doubting you, just shocked to read. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Jun 2, 2021 19:23:58 GMT -6
If we could get 5 pct of the STUDS walking around our campus who are just inelgible, we would have won a couple of state titles already. We easily have 100 kids, any of whom who’m would start right now, walking our hall ways who have no chance to be eligible EVER. You know the kicker to that is and the crime? WOW, really? I worked at some pretty rough places, literally a school in the city deemed "worst in the state of California". Didn't have many kids who I felt would contribute that were ineligible. Thats not doubting you, just shocked to read. No, you should doubt. You should totally doubt the estimations and evaluation of those "studs" talents. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2021 19:28:58 GMT -6
If we could get 5 pct of the STUDS walking around our campus who are just inelgible, we would have won a couple of state titles already. We easily have 100 kids, any of whom who’m would start right now, walking our hall ways who have no chance to be eligible EVER. You know the kicker to that is and the crime? WOW, really? I worked at some pretty rough places, literally a school in the city deemed "worst in the state of California". Didn't have many kids who I felt would contribute that were ineligible. Thats not doubting you, just shocked to read. If we could get them eligible, we would all be a lot younger. |
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Post by larrymoe on Jun 2, 2021 19:45:10 GMT -6
How many of you have a significant amount of talent walking around your school but NOT playing? Now and then we'll get a kid or two who could help, but whose parents don't want them to play football; or someone who feels like they need to just focus on another sport. But its rare that I can remember a swing of more than a win's worth of talent being on campus but not playing on the team. That being written, finding talent on other teams and poaching them is VERY real out here. "Talent" or football players? Every place I coached had a lot of the first and very few of the latter. And there is a SIGNIFICANT difference. Some of my worst years were spent coaching with guys who chased "talent" and ignored the football players on the team. |
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Post by wingtol on Jun 6, 2021 16:02:31 GMT -6
That whole philosophy starts to fall apart you go in classes I would imagine. We are at a small school right now, graduated under 100. IN the fall we have football, soccer, cross country, golf, and everyone's favorite club fall baseball. We got about every swinging d**k in the school that wants to play football basically.
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Post by Defcord on Jun 7, 2021 4:33:11 GMT -6
I read a successful HS coach say that the real essence of coaching is finding talent and getting it on the field. Thoughts on that? Eh, disagree with that. The real essence of coaching is helping players to become the best that they can be as individuals and as a collective. I agree with this 100% but the older I get the more I think we tell ourselves this at least partly to justify the high stress and low pay of coaching. For a lot of us I think coaching is a hobby that helps us find jobs and let’s us do some good along the way. |
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Jun 7, 2021 5:43:30 GMT -6
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Post by tripsclosed on Jun 7, 2021 5:43:30 GMT -6
Eh, disagree with that. The real essence of coaching is helping players to become the best that they can be as individuals and as a collective. I agree with this 100% but the older I get the more I think we tell ourselves this at least partly to justify the high stress and low pay of coaching. For a lot of us I think coaching is a hobby that helps us find jobs and let’s us do some good along the way. Oh absolutely, I was just saying that in the sense of what real coaching is to me, not in terms of there being any intrinsic value in helping players to become the best they can be as individuals and as a collective (not that there necessarily isn't). |
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