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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 17, 2021 7:10:11 GMT -6
Are we seeing the culture of transfers, be it bouncing from youth ball leagues/travel ball teams as well as shopping high schools and bouncing around from school to school move upward into the college ranks. Seems you can't go more than a few hours without someone "entering the portal" (ominous sound).
I don't think I have any issues with it on the surface, but I do wonder if it will start to impact the lives of the individuals in other ways as it seems this is becoming more of an embedded behavior.
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Post by fballcoachg on Apr 17, 2021 8:47:34 GMT -6
I think the trend is down from adults to youth to college (searching for better jobs/situations to telling our kids they deserve the same)
College transfers don’t bother me one bit
My question is, how many people “stuck it out” in college football spots 10-15-20 years ago that turned out to be bad spots for them. Undoubtedly it has increased but I’d be curious to see that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2021 9:07:34 GMT -6
You should be able to what you think is best for you... and it should go both ways....school and student. To further this, make free education, scholarship, go away so to speak at that level. Pay the student athlete with stipulation they must pay for all the things the rest of the enrolled population has to pay for.
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Post by blb on Apr 17, 2021 10:15:25 GMT -6
Transfer restrictions were put in a long time ago to stop the "tramp athlete" (Google it) that was prevalent during the infancy of Intercollegiate Athletics and to try to foster fair competition and preserve the ideal of amateur athletics.
Perhaps those exist only at the D-III level anymore.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 17, 2021 11:11:06 GMT -6
Transfer restrictions were put in a long time ago to stop the "tramp athlete" (Google it) that was prevalent during the infancy of Intercollegiate Athletics and to try to foster fair competition and preserve the ideal of amateur athletics. Perhaps those exist only at the D-III level anymore. From what I understand, it isn't even uniformly "pure" at that level. Some schools apparently have renegade programs hell bent on winning and some have programs with competitive mindset of jr high schools.
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Post by blb on Apr 17, 2021 11:40:29 GMT -6
Transfer restrictions were put in a long time ago to stop the "tramp athlete" (Google it) that was prevalent during the infancy of Intercollegiate Athletics and to try to foster fair competition and preserve the ideal of amateur athletics. Perhaps those exist only at the D-III level anymore. From what I understand, it isn't even uniformly "pure" at that level. Some schools apparently have renegade programs hell bent on winning and some have programs with competitive mindset of jr high schools. Yes, that's why I said "Perhaps." I coached for five years at one of the latter.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 17, 2021 18:36:06 GMT -6
I think the trend is down from adults to youth to college (searching for better jobs/situations to telling our kids they deserve the same) College transfers don’t bother me one bit My question is, how many people “stuck it out” in college football spots 10-15-20 years ago that turned out to be bad spots for them. Undoubtedly it has increased but I’d be curious to see that. Valid points. But I think (just a gut feeling, no evidence) that some of this is coming from the perversion of the recruiting process led by the recruiting media. But after seeing that some HS kids are now announcing their "commitments" as preferred walk ons on twitter. I find it hard to believe that some of these kids aren't doing this simply to get fawned over again in some way.
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Post by 42falcon on Apr 17, 2021 20:28:48 GMT -6
Kids have always shopped around / transferred schools or teams to better themselves (sometimes real other times not). The difference in this generation is social media and the very public online recruiting process plays a huge role in this. The kids and the adults are all guilty as sin on this one. Kids: many are looking for greener pastures. They all think "if I was at (insert school name) then I will have a better shot at getting to (insert next level here)" So in turn the kid and his parents use twitter, Instagram, HUDL, etc to market themselves. example: twitter.com/dannymcmullen15?lang=en This kid plays for us, wicked kid, hard worker, everything you could want in a kid. We have a glut at the QB spot he will be a G12 next year, his counterpart started for our SR team as a G10, is arguably a much better player, except he has a different skill set, shorter, much quicker, throws well on the run and very cool under pressure. The kid in the link hasn't started a game at QB since grade 8 or 9.. But has played a ton of 7v7. He would certainly have had a shot to play for us next year. He and his parents decided to go the prep school route. We have had a few kids do this we are a Canadian school and parents often see USA prep schools as a vehicle to the NCAA (not 1 kid from our school has made the jump). We play in a league where kids from our opponents have gone NCAA, 2 enter the NFL draft this year. I know for some of you that is normal but in Canada this is far from the norm. I do not blame this kid for testing the waters, his reality is:"stay and play for my coach who opens the weight room every day at 7am and have a shot to start but maybe not or go to the USA prep school and play 2 more seasons, where their coaches are saying I'm the next Jesus". Adults: there is a special place in hell for these dudes. At the HS level they prey on these kids and their families, parents take out second mortages in hopes their kid will make it. These adults troll social media, HUDL accounts and use some of the contacts they have developed over the years searching for "players". The sad thing here is when prep school coach hits up a guy they know who is training HS football players, trainer guy pumps the tires of his kids because trainer guy thinks he may get a job one day. Prep school or recrutuing school coach is playing a short term game. In many cases the mindset is if I win here I get a better gig somewhere else. As I mentioned I have had a good number of kids do this, to all of them I have said to the parents the somethings: 1) If you think this game is about recruiting, getting your shot above all else then I failed you as a coach 2) The best thing would be for you to get a NCAA scholarship, the worst thing would be to end up at a Canadian University having paid for half a degree already, the most catastrophic thing would be an injury that would end your career and or blowing apart your academic progress I have not had a single kid make it, at some point a kid will make it and good on them they better get me some tickets to a bowl game! But I have had 2 boys come back to play at Universities in Canada and 1 who sadly suffered a horrific knee injury and will never play again.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 18, 2021 8:41:14 GMT -6
As with so many things in the world the truth isn't black or white but gray with the truth always somewhere in the middle. Nothing wrong with trying to better your situation in life but at the same time as has been said is the grass always greener on the other side?
How many guys in the transfer portal even get picked up by another school? I thought I saw a stat that like 70% never get another opportunity. I do agree that the transfer culture can set a bad example for kids now. We don't always know why someone is transferring, maybe it is a bad situation or maybe they are just an a**hole who will be a problem anywhere. But kids see this and think the only way to better a situation is to leave now. When maybe the solution is to work harder, don't miss practice, lift in the offseason etc... but now it seems like "If it weren't for that coach/program/team" is a crutch for kids to use.
And there are situations where you just scratch your head and have to think man this is HS ball we are talking about. Like the Valdosta deal where the kid moved from Cali to play, played a few games, was declared ineligible, so he moved to another GA school, was able to play and win a state title. All the while his parents separated legally just so he could play there. Just insane.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 8:53:02 GMT -6
As with so many things in the world the truth isn't black or white but gray with the truth always somewhere in the middle. Nothing wrong with trying to better your situation in life but at the same time as has been said is the grass always greener on the other side? How many guys in the transfer portal even get picked up by another school? I thought I saw a stat that like 70% never get another opportunity. I do agree that the transfer culture can set a bad example for kids now. We don't always know why someone is transferring, maybe it is a bad situation or maybe they are just an a**hole who will be a problem anywhere. But kids see this and think the only way to better a situation is to leave now. When maybe the solution is to work harder, don't miss practice, lift in the offseason etc... but now it seems like "If it weren't for that coach/program/team" is a crutch for kids to use. And there are situations where you just scratch your head and have to think man this is HS ball we are talking about. Like the Valdosta deal where the kid moved from Cali to play, played a few games, was declared ineligible, so he moved to another GA school, was able to play and win a state title. All the while his parents separated legally just so he could play there. Just insane. The transfer rule works for everybody. The player who is 4th string and unhappy? The Hc has better player lined up for his scholarship in recruiting. And it works for schools. Just because you are available doesn’t mean we want you. And just because the school contacts the player doesn’t mean the player wants the school.
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CoachSP
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Post by CoachSP on Apr 19, 2021 9:48:37 GMT -6
What about the sentiment (with regards to college transfers) "Coaches can move for a better situation. Why not the player?"
I am not saying I necessarily agree with that, but that is an argument sometimes used.
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 19, 2021 18:04:01 GMT -6
What about the sentiment (with regards to college transfers) "Coaches can move for a better situation. Why not the player?" I am not saying I necessarily agree with that, but that is an argument sometimes used. I absolutely agree with it. No problems at all. It seems that the portal process has made it easier for athletes to explore other options. Of course, it goes both ways. Enter the portal, and the program doesn't need to take you back.
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Post by coachscdub on Apr 19, 2021 18:16:09 GMT -6
I would say the issue is less around transferring because a kid is unhappy and is more so focused around other schools poaching kids away.
In my seven years of coaching i have seen numerous kids get recruited to other schools, but last year was the first year we had a kid transfer because he felt he was being overlooked at our school
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 19, 2021 18:36:07 GMT -6
I would say the issue is less around transferring because a kid is unhappy and is more so focused around other schools poaching kids away. In my seven years of coaching i have seen numerous kids get recruited to other schools, but last year was the first year we had a kid transfer because he felt he was being overlooked at our school That would support my theory that some of this is because the kids enjoy being pursued.
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Post by wingtol on Apr 20, 2021 5:38:42 GMT -6
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CoachSP
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Post by CoachSP on Apr 20, 2021 6:45:41 GMT -6
That's why I said I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that argument. It's kind of like communism. It sounds good on paper, but doesn't always work out in practice. Not trying to spark a political debate. Just a former history teacher giving an analogy.
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Post by coachwoodall on Apr 20, 2021 6:48:46 GMT -6
That's why I said I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that argument. It's kind of like communism. It sounds good on paper, but doesn't always work out in practice. Not trying to spark a political debate. Just a former history teacher giving an analogy. it's more like free agency with a salary cap. Stars will get their's, but most everyone else will be picking at the crumbs.
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CoachSP
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Post by CoachSP on Apr 20, 2021 7:02:56 GMT -6
That's why I said I'm not sure I necessarily agree with that argument. It's kind of like communism. It sounds good on paper, but doesn't always work out in practice. Not trying to spark a political debate. Just a former history teacher giving an analogy. it's more like free agency with a salary cap. Stars will get their's, but most everyone else will be picking at the crumbs. No doubt. I just meant it's all fine and good to be "pro-player" and give them their right to want out of their situation. But it seems that many of the guys in the portal are getting bad advice because like you said, the stars will get their's. And I also don't feel sorry for the player in the article. He had offers to play DB, but wanted to be a WR. Give up one scholarship and pass up a few more because you think you know better. That is why many coaches detest the portal because they believe there is some sort of character flaw with the guys in it. In this case, he may be a good, hard working, and responsible father, but he sounds like a turd of a player who thought he knew better. He found out the hard way.
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Post by veerwego on Apr 22, 2021 9:02:53 GMT -6
Having coached at a high school that repeatedly has our best players recruited and taken away by other high schools in our area, I can say that I do not think this is good. It is more a bigger picture issue of our culture and something that parents need to consider the long term ramifications of.
You probably want to teach your children to stand by their commitments. When you have spent your youth and young adulthood jumping around from team to team and school to school for any whim that makes you think a better opportunity awaits around the bend, how do you all the sudden handle a big downturn in your business that has employees that depend on you and their job? Do you sell or close and take another job or stick it out to keep them employed even though you are losing money and working like crazy?
How do you handle aging parents who need your help, but you have better opportunities in other places/states?
How do you handle the ups and downs of marriage and parenting, when your life has taught you to pursue what you want in every big decision you had when you were young? How do you become a person who puts others before themselves? Critical to being a good husband and father.
I have a belief that youth/primary school/high school/sports etc is a cheap place to learn valuable lessons. So my 4th grader made is first B ever. His teacher basically slacked off and he had no grades the 2nd half of the Qtr to bring up his 88 avg. My wife teaches at the school and wanted to talk to the teacher about it because he should have had some chances to bring up his grade. She is right, he should have. However, what a cheap price to learn a valuable lesson.
What is more important, that he has a continuing straight As streak through elementary school or that he learns he is responsible for himself and mom and dad won't fix everything for him. We also talked about how you do not know how many chances you may get at something in life, so you better do your best every time. He was disappointed in himself, because he knows he should have made an A and he gets in a hurry to turn in his work so he can have free time to read. We taught him that is a choice and as good as reading is, in this case, it is a distraction that he chose over doing his best and making an A. We are parenting to raise and a future adult that is independent, responsible, and accountable. We are not trying to raise a permanent 10 year old superstar that will be selfish, spoiled, and lazy.
For HS and college sports, I say keep the old rule: 1 time transfer to sit out a year. Keep in the special consideration for players whose parents may get sick or their family has a special circumstance pop up. I'm even potentially ok with allowing a transfer when the coach you signed under leaves. However, we need to wake up and realize that this is all way more about that kid in 20, 30 , 40 years and not the next 10 months.
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