coachtconkle
Freshmen Member
"Perfection is not attainable; but, if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" – V. Lombardi
Posts: 70
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Post by coachtconkle on Mar 30, 2021 12:00:23 GMT -6
When considering game score (throughout the game and/or final result) please share your thoughts concerning the following.
What point differential do you consider an interscholastic football game:
1] as being close or competitive?
2] as a team having a safe/comfortable lead?
3] as a "blowout?"
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Post by CS on Mar 30, 2021 12:18:51 GMT -6
When considering game score (throughout the game and/or final result) please share your thoughts concerning the following.
What point differential do you consider an interscholastic football game:
1] as being close or competitive?
2] as a team having a safe/comfortable lead?
3] as a "blowout?"
Depends on the opponent on 1 but 1) would be 14 points or less 2) 17 points or more 3) mercy rule 35 points
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Post by coachg13 on Mar 30, 2021 12:45:31 GMT -6
Along with what CS said depends on opponent/style of game but
1) within 2 possessions at the end would be close so 16 if you can get 2 pt conversions 2) three scores so 17+ 3) anything with a running clock, for our state I think its 40 in the second half
Can I be nosy? Just curious as to the origin of the question ha
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Post by carookie on Mar 30, 2021 16:14:40 GMT -6
When considering game score (throughout the game and/or final result) please share your thoughts concerning the following.
What point differential do you consider an interscholastic football game:
1] as being close or competitive?
2] as a team having a safe/comfortable lead?
3] as a "blowout?"
You only have part of the variables in play. You also need to know how much of the game is remaining. Also, pending what you are using it for, possession & timeouts
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Post by CS on Mar 30, 2021 16:51:14 GMT -6
When considering game score (throughout the game and/or final result) please share your thoughts concerning the following.
What point differential do you consider an interscholastic football game:
1] as being close or competitive?
2] as a team having a safe/comfortable lead?
3] as a "blowout?"
You only have part of the variables in play. You also need to know how much of the game is remaining. Also, pending what you are using it for, possession & timeouts Dude just answer a general question without turning it into a theoretical debate. There are no absolutes in football....we get it
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Post by tog on Mar 30, 2021 17:16:28 GMT -6
what does it matter ?
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Post by kylem56 on Mar 30, 2021 18:19:24 GMT -6
this sounds like some crazy graduate school paper but anyway to answer your questions:
What point differential do you consider an interscholastic football game:
1] as being close or competitive? within 14 points or less
2] as a team having a safe/comfortable lead? anything more than a 3 score game
3] as a "blowout? 30 points or more. Some coaches will say when the running clock rule kicks in
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Post by carookie on Mar 30, 2021 18:25:57 GMT -6
You only have part of the variables in play. You also need to know how much of the game is remaining. Also, pending what you are using it for, possession & timeouts Dude just answer a general question without turning it into a theoretical debate. There are no absolutes in football....we get it Not trying to make it a theoretical debate, just trying to answer the question as asked "throughout the game..." I don't consider being down 17 at the half the same as being down 17 in the first 5 minutes. Nor would I consider evaluating a game score (ie pct chance of winning) of being down 10 with a minute left the same as being down 10 in the second qtr. I simply asked for one more variable that helps flesh out the question.
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Post by 42falcon on Mar 30, 2021 18:32:03 GMT -6
When considering game score (throughout the game and/or final result) please share your thoughts concerning the following.
What point differential do you consider an interscholastic football game:
1] as being close or competitive?
2] as a team having a safe/comfortable lead?
3] as a "blowout?"
1) close is within 2 scores. Competitive is less about score and more about how the game went. We have played games where the end score was 2+ scores but we were in it all game long but fell apart in the last few minutes. 2) Depends on the team you play. 3) 50pts by 1/2 time that is over
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Post by carookie on Mar 30, 2021 19:18:08 GMT -6
This might be something that interests you: www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/win_prob.cgiNow I know its designed for pro football, but you can use it to generate a numeric win probability estimate. For the sake of argument, just leave the "Vegas Line" part blank or put an 'e' in the field to treat it as being two evenly matched teams. So, in regards to a "throughout the game" estimates and whether a game is "competitive" or a team having a "safe lead", this gives you a number- its up to you to figure what pct chance of winning fits those terms. For example, if two teams are expected to be even, and Team-A is up 6 pts with 1 minute left in the first qtr this predicts they have a 69.5% chance of winning. Give them the ball and 1 minute to go in the game and that lead gives them a 99.7% chance of winning. Ergo, time remaining is a key factor. I don't know all the intricacies of the formula, and I am sure there are others out there, but I think this gives everyone a more concrete jumping off point for a discussion as a safe lead and a close game when discussin in game situations
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coachtconkle
Freshmen Member
"Perfection is not attainable; but, if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" – V. Lombardi
Posts: 70
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Post by coachtconkle on Mar 31, 2021 7:47:17 GMT -6
I appreciate the replies, everyone. I pose the question because there is some debate in circles where this discussion occurs and it seems to frequently go in 2 directions: a) the game is over and was it close, was it a comfortable lead "where I could play my reserves," or it was a runaway. OR, it was too close to play reserves at any point, I wasn't 21-28 points ahead so "they had a chance to catch us," or "we were 42 points ahead and it was a runaway" (for example). So I was interested in other viewpoints. I am still interested in more perspectives.
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Post by blb on Mar 31, 2021 7:50:22 GMT -6
My philosophy was the game was "over" when one team was ahead by three or more scores in 4th Quarter, or earlier if running clock went into effect.
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Post by larrymoe on Mar 31, 2021 10:32:15 GMT -6
1. Within two scores- 14-16 pts 2. Depends on team played. Some games I knew if we got up by 17 it was over because we could milk clock, some I was still nervous up 28. 3. Anything where the clock is running. +40pts in Illinois.
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Post by cqmiller on Mar 31, 2021 10:48:11 GMT -6
1] as being close or competitive?
2] as a team having a safe/comfortable lead?
3] as a "blowout?"
1) 2 scores 2) 3 scores 3) 4+ scores
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Post by CS on Mar 31, 2021 11:39:01 GMT -6
I appreciate the replies, everyone. I pose the question because there is some debate in circles where this discussion occurs and it seems to frequently go in 2 directions: a) the game is over and was it close, was it a comfortable lead "where I could play my reserves," or it was a runaway. OR, it was too close to play reserves at any point, I wasn't 21-28 points ahead so "they had a chance to catch us," or "we were 42 points ahead and it was a runaway" (for example). So I was interested in other viewpoints. I am still interested in more perspectives. I will spot sub if we are up 3 or more until the game is for sure over (blowout/not a lot of time)then I will mass sub. Or if my 2s can handle your 1s then they will get the 2nd half because we are probably beating that a$$ by then
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Post by chi5hi on Mar 31, 2021 11:39:44 GMT -6
When considering game score (throughout the game and/or final result) please share your thoughts concerning the following.
What point differential do you consider an interscholastic football game:
1] as being close or competitive?
2] as a team having a safe/comfortable lead?
3] as a "blowout?"
1). Less than 7 2). 9 3). 15+
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Post by Defcord on Mar 31, 2021 12:10:00 GMT -6
1.) Usually 14 points but have seen 14 point blow outs and have also seen 21-28 that were competitive but something weird happened at the end and a couple of scores were added on
2.) Safe/Comfortable lead is the most debatable in my opinion. We were beating a team one year 28-7 at half time. They got the ball and on the first play we stripped it and scored on defense. We are up 35-7. Everyone thought the game was over. They tied it up with 4 minutes to play and we went three and out after that. They had a chance to win it on their final drive but we forced a fumble on the goal line. So we got to over time 35-35 and having barely survived. It's a happy ending because our RB was a stud and scored on the first play of the extra period and we stopped them. But leads are pretty fragile sometimes.
That being said the only disagreement I have had with our head coach was when I put in a kid when we were up two scores with 2 minutes to go and he said not to. We had a shut out so I wasn't really concerned, but he felt they had the talent so he wanted our best players in.
This certainly isn't a science.
3. Once the whistle has sounded I think anything 3 scores or higher is a blowout.
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Post by CS on Mar 31, 2021 15:18:55 GMT -6
I appreciate the replies, everyone. I pose the question because there is some debate in circles where this discussion occurs and it seems to frequently go in 2 directions: a) the game is over and was it close, was it a comfortable lead "where I could play my reserves," or it was a runaway. OR, it was too close to play reserves at any point, I wasn't 21-28 points ahead so "they had a chance to catch us," or "we were 42 points ahead and it was a runaway" (for example). So I was interested in other viewpoints. I am still interested in more perspectives. I will spot sub if we are up 3 or more until the game is for sure over (blowout/not a lot of time)then I will mass sub. Or if my 2s can handle your 1s then they will get the 2nd half because we are probably beating that a$$ by then I meant 3 or more TD's not points
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Post by **** on Mar 31, 2021 19:51:21 GMT -6
When considering game score (throughout the game and/or final result) please share your thoughts concerning the following.
What point differential do you consider an interscholastic football game:
1] as being close or competitive?
2] as a team having a safe/comfortable lead?
3] as a "blowout?"
3-8 17-21 35+
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Post by coachd5085 on Mar 31, 2021 20:12:24 GMT -6
You only have part of the variables in play. You also need to know how much of the game is remaining. Also, pending what you are using it for, possession & timeouts Dude just answer a general question without turning it into a theoretical debate. There are no absolutes in football....we get it I have to say I understand what carookie was saying though. Without additional parameters, you get replies like chi5hi 's. I would say that he can't be interpreting the question the same way as others if he says that a 9 point lead is "comfortable"
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Post by CS on Apr 1, 2021 4:46:18 GMT -6
Dude just answer a general question without turning it into a theoretical debate. There are no absolutes in football....we get it I have to say I understand what carookie was saying though. Without additional parameters, you get replies like chi5hi 's. I would say that he can't be interpreting the question the same way as others if he says that a 9 point lead is "comfortable" I understood what Carookie was saying also. What I’m saying is that threads like these are the Seinfeld of the forum. You don’t have to over think them just answer. Generally speaking, the theme on this thread is within 2 possessions it’s close, 3 possession lead is comfy, and 4 or more is a blowout Now if I’m up 2 possessions with 25 sec left I’m feeling pretty comfortable. We all get there are factors that influence these answers.
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coachtconkle
Freshmen Member
"Perfection is not attainable; but, if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" – V. Lombardi
Posts: 70
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Post by coachtconkle on Apr 15, 2021 8:54:42 GMT -6
As you all can imagine, things are quite busy right now. I apologize if I created a mess with my Q; but the feedback I received is exactly what I was seeking and some great input that helps me a good bit professionally, and with debates I have with coaches in my circles. Many of you were in the same ballpark that I have been in. I am dealing with some guys who think that no lead is safe in this era of high-powered fast-paced offenses and systems. Many of these guys believe that no matter how good your defense is, you can't take out your starters on either side of the ball unless you have some 1B players to sub in. I believe there must be some point where 2 and 3 players deserve playing time, and I need to know what these guys look like in games as opposed to practices. I also feel we must prepare for next year when we can and those guys need playing time and game experience to achieve that goal. Again, many tanks for the feedback!
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Post by cwaltsmith on Apr 15, 2021 9:24:12 GMT -6
to me the 2 score rule is great to go by. While I agree offenses do tend to be quicker scoring these days, in game I feel like I am still in the game as long as I am within 2 scores. I feel more comfy when I get the game outside of 2 scores. As far as blow outs go ... more than 4 scores is a blowout IMHO
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Post by vanden48 on May 2, 2021 22:03:41 GMT -6
1) Close would be 10 or less points. 2) 21 points 3) Anytime we scored 50 or more and the other team did not reach 21 points, that felt like a blowout, and the other way around too.
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Post by vanden48 on May 2, 2021 22:12:47 GMT -6
As you all can imagine, things are quite busy right now. I apologize if I created a mess with my Q; but the feedback I received is exactly what I was seeking and some great input that helps me a good bit professionally, and with debates I have with coaches in my circles. Many of you were in the same ballpark that I have been in. I am dealing with some guys who think that no lead is safe in this era of high-powered fast-paced offenses and systems. Many of these guys believe that no matter how good your defense is, you can't take out your starters on either side of the ball unless you have some 1B players to sub in. I believe there must be some point where 2 and 3 players deserve playing time, and I need to know what these guys look like in games as opposed to practices. I also feel we must prepare for next year when we can and those guys need playing time and game experience to achieve that goal. Again, many tanks for the feedback! To your point. I will pull my starters in the 1st quarter on offense if we score 35 points in the 1st quarter, defense stays in. If we hit 50 points in the 2nd quarter, I will pull the offense. I will pull all the starters in the 3rd quarter if the lead is bigger than 35, either way. But if that lead drops to 28, the starters go back in. In the 4th quarter I will pull the starters if the lead is 28. What I tell the players who are starters is that we do this for two reasons. 1) to protect them from injury and keep them fresh for the next game. 2) to reward the guys who helped them practice to be able to be this good.(and if we are getting blown out its because I need to find out who else can play) Big problem I run into is that when I sub, others do not. When my 2s and 3s are in, the other coach is trying to get some stats for his starters. Seen many a shut out ruined because of this. I used to get my feelings hurt about that, but then I grew up and now we make it a point that the starters all need to be coaching their back ups to preserve the shut out.
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coachtconkle
Freshmen Member
"Perfection is not attainable; but, if we chase perfection we can catch excellence" – V. Lombardi
Posts: 70
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Post by coachtconkle on May 17, 2021 14:42:22 GMT -6
It is a shame that we run into that problem you mention at the end. I like how you explain to players the reason(s) that we sub in particular ways, they don't always see the methods to our madness sometimes. That is why good coaches are ultimate teachers, things are explained. I know many coaches who do not take time to do that......they simply react when asked by players, "because I want to_______." That applies to innumerable situations, not just how/why they sub players in and out in the way that they do. Your thoughts are appreciated.
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Post by fballcoachg on May 18, 2021 11:34:58 GMT -6
As you all can imagine, things are quite busy right now. I apologize if I created a mess with my Q; but the feedback I received is exactly what I was seeking and some great input that helps me a good bit professionally, and with debates I have with coaches in my circles. Many of you were in the same ballpark that I have been in. I am dealing with some guys who think that no lead is safe in this era of high-powered fast-paced offenses and systems. Many of these guys believe that no matter how good your defense is, you can't take out your starters on either side of the ball unless you have some 1B players to sub in. I believe there must be some point where 2 and 3 players deserve playing time, and I need to know what these guys look like in games as opposed to practices. I also feel we must prepare for next year when we can and those guys need playing time and game experience to achieve that goal. Again, many tanks for the feedback! To your point. I will pull my starters in the 1st quarter on offense if we score 35 points in the 1st quarter, defense stays in. If we hit 50 points in the 2nd quarter, I will pull the offense. I will pull all the starters in the 3rd quarter if the lead is bigger than 35, either way. But if that lead drops to 28, the starters go back in. In the 4th quarter I will pull the starters if the lead is 28. What I tell the players who are starters is that we do this for two reasons. 1) to protect them from injury and keep them fresh for the next game. 2) to reward the guys who helped them practice to be able to be this good.(and if we are getting blown out its because I need to find out who else can play) Big problem I run into is that when I sub, others do not. When my 2s and 3s are in, the other coach is trying to get some stats for his starters. Seen many a shut out ruined because of this. I used to get my feelings hurt about that, but then I grew up and now we make it a point that the starters all need to be coaching their back ups to preserve the shut out. I’ve been on both ends of blowouts and it’s not as cut an dry as “trying to get stats for his starters.” if if you are on the wrong side, you are trying to build something positive or just get reps plus imagine how bad comparatively your backups must be. If you are on the good side of the blowout and they leave their starters in I assume it’s for the same reason. They don’t have anyone else, they need something positive to build off of, their kids need reps against comparable talent. We’ve given up shutouts, still got the win. This may be too touchy freely but what’s the difference between winning by 35 or 42? Our ego isn’t that fragile. We will still sub guys in and play our base stuff. It does bother me when the down team waves the white flag, subs starters but the other team keeps theirs in. It doesn’t matter at the end of the day, just doesn’t make sense to me bc they aren’t getting better by doing that. That, to me, is an ego move.
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