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Post by s73 on Jan 26, 2021 13:02:06 GMT -6
Let me first say that I am the king of trying to keep practices short. I have not done 2 a days since 2004. Big believer in quality over quantity, etc.
Having said that, instead of going 2 hours / 2 15 a day, do you think extending to 3 hours IF......45 minutes of that was spent on weights / speed development would still have the same negative "this sucks" effect on kids as a typical 3 hour Fb practice?
I think I know the answer already but interested in another perspective.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 13:12:58 GMT -6
I am in favor of 2 hrs for all of it,weights, install, meetings, and practice. 2 hrs total for the kids
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Post by RunThePistol on Jan 26, 2021 14:33:05 GMT -6
WE have 45 mins. of weights and about 2.15 hours or practice time. Bit of a culture shock initially for our kids, but they have adjusted well. It has also paid off for the most part, in the past 5 years we've made 5 semifinal appearances, and 2 state championship appearances.
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Post by s73 on Jan 26, 2021 14:33:09 GMT -6
I am in favor of 2 hrs for all of it,weights, install, meetings, and practice. 2 hrs total for the kids What size school? I would feel the same but as a small school all need to learn both sides of the ball for depth. That would mean what? 15 min weights / 15 minutes speed dev. / 15 minutes meetings / 15 min install / 30 minutes O / 30 minutes D? I can't see how you can possibly practice offense for example and have fundamentals time / Run / fundy's pass / Situational & team time in 30 minutes. Not to mention special teams. Are you 2 platooned? |
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Post by s73 on Jan 26, 2021 14:34:20 GMT -6
WE have 45 mins. of weights and about 2.15 hours or practice time. Bit of a culture shock initially for our kids, but they have adjusted well. It has also paid off for the most part, in the past 5 years we've made 5 semifinal appearances, and 2 state championship appearances. So daily, you go 45min weights & THEN 2.15 practice for a total of 3 each day correct? |
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Post by carookie on Jan 26, 2021 15:00:53 GMT -6
I am in favor of 2 hrs for all of it,weights, install, meetings, and practice. 2 hrs total for the kids I would feel the same but as a small school all need to learn both sides of the ball for depth. That would mean what? 15 min weights / 15 minutes speed dev. / 15 minutes meetings / 15 min install / 30 minutes O / 30 minutes D? I can't see how you can possibly practice offense for example and have fundamentals time / Run / fundy's pass / Situational & team time in 30 minutes. Not to mention special teams. Are you 2 platooned? Thats a very pertinent question, and in many ways should help prevent this from being an apples to oranges type discussion. I am 2:15 a day for Mon-Wed, thats with no weights on Tues & Wed (weights on Mon) but with players playing both ways. Would be less if kids only went one way. In season weights are on Mon, Thu, & Sat |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2021 18:42:16 GMT -6
I am in favor of 2 hrs for all of it,weights, install, meetings, and practice. 2 hrs total for the kids What size school? I would feel the same but as a small school all need to learn both sides of the ball for depth. That would mean what? 15 min weights / 15 minutes speed dev. / 15 minutes meetings / 15 min install / 30 minutes O / 30 minutes D? I can't see how you can possibly practice offense for example and have fundamentals time / Run / fundy's pass / Situational & team time in 30 minutes. Not to mention special teams. Are you 2 platooned? high medium pop.. so I am different in that I believe that all of it, fundies, scheme should be in by spring ball. Don’t need pads to do that. So am 75 minutes on the field. 20 minutes in weight room. 15 minute group install, 10 team. 5 minute team meeting. 90 minute Jan to may, all of summer.3 days a week. Go Go Go. Get the kids the fck out. I have done this long enough, watched enough football to know that I don’t need a play sheet. I need a team that knows wtf their doing, can execute. |
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Post by RunThePistol on Jan 27, 2021 7:43:57 GMT -6
That is correct s73.
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Post by s73 on Jan 27, 2021 11:02:49 GMT -6
What size school? I would feel the same but as a small school all need to learn both sides of the ball for depth. That would mean what? 15 min weights / 15 minutes speed dev. / 15 minutes meetings / 15 min install / 30 minutes O / 30 minutes D? I can't see how you can possibly practice offense for example and have fundamentals time / Run / fundy's pass / Situational & team time in 30 minutes. Not to mention special teams. Are you 2 platooned? high medium pop.. so I am different in that I believe that all of it, fundies, scheme should be in by spring ball. Don’t need pads to do that. So am 75 minutes on the field. 20 minutes in weight room. 15 minute group install, 10 team. 5 minute team meeting. 90 minute Jan to may, all of summer.3 days a week. Go Go Go. Get the kids the fck out. I have done this long enough, watched enough football to know that I don’t need a play sheet. I need a team that knows wtf their doing, can execute. Yeah, i don't have spring ball but i see what you're saying. Do you worry about fundamentals eroding w/o doing them from spring on? |
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Post by s73 on Jan 27, 2021 11:06:37 GMT -6
What size school? I would feel the same but as a small school all need to learn both sides of the ball for depth. That would mean what? 15 min weights / 15 minutes speed dev. / 15 minutes meetings / 15 min install / 30 minutes O / 30 minutes D? I can't see how you can possibly practice offense for example and have fundamentals time / Run / fundy's pass / Situational & team time in 30 minutes. Not to mention special teams. Are you 2 platooned? Thats a very pertinent question, and in many ways should help prevent this from being an apples to oranges type discussion. I am 2:15 a day for Mon-Wed, thats with no weights on Tues & Wed (weights on Mon) but with players playing both ways. Would be less if kids only went one way. In season weights are on Mon, Thu, & Sat I guess the other concern i should mention is we do have a S & C class through our PE dept. But.....it's PE (I'm a former PE teacher so don't give me the side eye). The reality that kids work as hard in 30 minute over crowded co-ed PE classes w/ a non football coach just isn't reality at all. So, for year I let that be our in season "training" but can't help but feel we aren't getting any stronger / maintaining through out the season. |
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Post by carookie on Jan 27, 2021 11:11:18 GMT -6
Thats a very pertinent question, and in many ways should help prevent this from being an apples to oranges type discussion. I am 2:15 a day for Mon-Wed, thats with no weights on Tues & Wed (weights on Mon) but with players playing both ways. Would be less if kids only went one way. In season weights are on Mon, Thu, & Sat I guess the other concern i should mention is we do have a S & C class through our PE dept. But.....it's PE (I'm a former PE teacher so don't give me the side eye). The reality that kids work as hard in 30 minute over crowded co-ed PE classes w/ a non football coach just isn't reality at all. So, for year I let that be our in season "training" but can't help but feel we aren't getting any stronger / maintaining through out the season. Yeah, having a 'true' athletics period is a benefit if you are at a school that has one. Especially if you get all the coaches on board; then you sell it to admin as 'we will be shortening practices for all sports by -- minutes". Of course that requires coaches to actually follow that and shorten practices. Still get good work done, and kids get home earlier |
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Post by s73 on Jan 27, 2021 11:59:21 GMT -6
I guess the other concern i should mention is we do have a S & C class through our PE dept. But.....it's PE (I'm a former PE teacher so don't give me the side eye). The reality that kids work as hard in 30 minute over crowded co-ed PE classes w/ a non football coach just isn't reality at all. So, for year I let that be our in season "training" but can't help but feel we aren't getting any stronger / maintaining through out the season. Yeah, having a 'true' athletics period is a benefit if you are at a school that has one. Especially if you get all the coaches on board; then you sell it to admin as 'we will be shortening practices for all sports by -- minutes". Of course that requires coaches to actually follow that and shorten practices. Still get good work done, and kids get home earlier The toughest part for us has been coaching buy in from a standpoint of actually running the program well aka learning how to teach compound lifts and sticking to a school wide program. The other issue is admin not using PE as a "dumping ground". Our "S & C class" was supposed to be athletes only, but never stays that way. Then it becomes a glorified PE does weights sometimes class. Plus it's only 30 minutes long by the time kids get changed, attendance taken, organized, etc. |
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Post by carookie on Jan 27, 2021 13:36:33 GMT -6
Yeah, having a 'true' athletics period is a benefit if you are at a school that has one. Especially if you get all the coaches on board; then you sell it to admin as 'we will be shortening practices for all sports by -- minutes". Of course that requires coaches to actually follow that and shorten practices. Still get good work done, and kids get home earlier The toughest part for us has been coaching buy in from a standpoint of actually running the program well aka learning how to teach compound lifts and sticking to a school wide program. The other issue is admin not using PE as a "dumping ground". Our "S & C class" was supposed to be athletes only, but never stays that way. Then it becomes a glorified PE does weights sometimes class. Plus it's only 30 minutes long by the time kids get changed, attendance taken, organized, etc. Yeah, Ive been at places that had it like that (the struggles you described) & Ive been at places that had it run smoothly. A big key was having a solid AD who got all the coaches on board. Lifting weights is good, we have a good program here, this is what your athletes will do and when they will do it. The good AD can also keep it from being a dumping ground, convinces the counselors it is an advanced level class- you wouldnt dump 'F' students into AP classes, don't do it here. |
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Post by dc207 on Jan 27, 2021 19:44:10 GMT -6
Great thread. Really cool input. s73 man I really appreciate your viewpoint and perspective. Structured and well-planned.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2021 20:01:21 GMT -6
high medium pop.. so I am different in that I believe that all of it, fundies, scheme should be in by spring ball. Don’t need pads to do that. So am 75 minutes on the field. 20 minutes in weight room. 15 minute group install, 10 team. 5 minute team meeting. 90 minute Jan to may, all of summer.3 days a week. Go Go Go. Get the kids the fck out. I have done this long enough, watched enough football to know that I don’t need a play sheet. I need a team that knows wtf their doing, can execute. Yeah, i don't have spring ball but i see what you're saying. Do you worry about fundamentals eroding w/o doing them from spring on? I do it before and after spring. In fact ,start over. I do not want to teach a stance in august. I don’t want to teach hand placement, snap, eyes, terminology. I can’t stand the 20 minute Indy pd, hearing coaches scream about the wrong hand being down, the kid getting 8 reps for muscle memory, Get the kids out of here. When we hit the field, it’s reps, at tempo, and in and at the highest level possible. Same thing in spring. We waste so much time it’s ridiculous. Limit your plays, give your kids power, tools, and rep rep rep. Get them the f-off the practice field, and ultimately out of the building. This is how I can let kids have jobs, have a players lounge, and we sit there dilly dallying hoping they line up on this or that way. No, kids know pretty much what to do, on the field, no matter what the bleep the d does. |
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Post by s73 on Jan 29, 2021 11:05:54 GMT -6
WE have 45 mins. of weights and about 2.15 hours or practice time. Bit of a culture shock initially for our kids, but they have adjusted well. It has also paid off for the most part, in the past 5 years we've made 5 semifinal appearances, and 2 state championship appearances. Coach, can you give a brief outline of what your in season weights schedule looks like? What days / lifts you perform & set / rep combo. I am very intrigued. |
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Post by RunThePistol on Jan 29, 2021 11:53:09 GMT -6
S73- I sent you a DM. Paranoia gets the better of me sometimes.
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Doo
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Post by Doo on Jan 29, 2021 12:38:11 GMT -6
Short answer, for me it depended primarily on our numbers.
When I coached schools where we typically had 40-50 kids on team we were on field 2:30 hours (except day before game).
When I was at smaller schools with in the 20s it was 2:00, maybe 2:10. Sometimes less.
That includes water breaks ~ every 20 minutes and "Sky Drill" (five-minute Team rest period half way through).
Not including lifting. Kids that didn't have STC class during school day would lift for 20-30 minutes (however long it took them) after practice Mondays and Wednesdays.
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humble
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Post by humble on Jan 29, 2021 12:48:57 GMT -6
We workout 3 days a week in season (monday/wed/sat). The kids workout/condition during their athletic period during the day and watch film/meet the days they don't workout. On Mon/Tues we practice for 2.5 hours until halfway through the season and we cut it back to 2 hours. Wednesdays are based on reps not periods. We do 4 O/D series each lasting 8 plays each and have a special teams in between them. On Thursdays we are helmets only and it's strictly walkthrough with a 2 minute drill on air at the end.
We have been doing it this way for about 6 year's now with success.
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Post by newhope on Mar 16, 2021 8:54:43 GMT -6
If you're going to occupy them 3+ hours a day, you better be really good. Two things will happen otherwise nowadays: You'll lose them and they'll fire you.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2021 9:56:59 GMT -6
I am in favor of 2 hrs for all of it,weights, install, meetings, and practice. 2 hrs total for the kids What size school? I would feel the same but as a small school all need to learn both sides of the ball for depth. That would mean what? 15 min weights / 15 minutes speed dev. / 15 minutes meetings / 15 min install / 30 minutes O / 30 minutes D? I can't see how you can possibly practice offense for example and have fundamentals time / Run / fundy's pass / Situational & team time in 30 minutes. Not to mention special teams. Are you 2 platooned? We had 25 kids? How much are going to put in? Realistically? And playing both ways? Not much. 2 groups. One does weights, others do individual? 25 minutes? 10 minute team? 10 GL 7 minutes if that. Pass Skelly? Inside pd 7 min.?12 st. 12 film pd, 12 min install. 12 st? We, on a good day in about 2:45 And if you wait till august to install, your screwed. Especially in hs. |
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Post by jg78 on Mar 16, 2021 10:19:24 GMT -6
Every school where I have coached has had a seven period schedule. What you're given to work with during 7th period makes an enormous difference in terms of time management at practice. If you have all your coaches, all your players, and any other kids are at least athletes, you can get a good head start on the workload and send them home earlier. But if your DC is in math class, your OL coach is in history class, some of your football players have tutoring or an elective, and half your class consists of worthless turds no one else wants or eggheads who can't walk and chew gum at the same time, that 2:10-3:00 window during the day goes from productive to a pain in the a$$ real quick.
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Post by coachscdub on Mar 16, 2021 12:31:40 GMT -6
Yes i think having a 3 hour practice is fine in any capacity, if you can lump the weights or meetings or anything else in to those three hours than even better.
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