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Post by falcon661 on Jan 15, 2008 7:49:58 GMT -6
Coaches put yourself in this situation:
I have a friend that is at a small school with about 100 enrollment. They are smaller and have less talent than most people they play, but he loves it there. How can you be competitive? Are you better trying to run multiple, multiple formations with a few plays and try to confuse the defense, or try running the slot-t or double wing to prevent negative plays and keep the clock moving. Need advice on what you would do.
Thanks
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 15, 2008 8:09:56 GMT -6
hog the ball eliminate long yardage situations be extremely disciplined to prevent penalties conservative in terms of passing but aggressive in terms of going for it on 4th and 2 attacking defense bent on getting the ball back now
shorten the game, eliminate mistakes, make the other guys BEAT YOU. do not beat yourself.
dw, wing t, sw, ...series football with lots of double teams, traps, power and misdirection.
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Post by lochness on Jan 15, 2008 8:21:37 GMT -6
As always, this is the "magic question," isn't it.
My answer is always the most annoying one, but the "great equalizer" is to COACH WHAT YOU KNOW.
Now, what that means is that if "what you know" isn't going to fit your personnel, then you need to go out and research another system as thoroughly as possible. In a small school that may be outmanned, I believe you need to be in a simple system that you can coach the heck out of and run a few simple run plays and a few simple pass plays.
Any system will allow you to do this, if you taylor it to your needs and philosophy.
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Post by brophy on Jan 15, 2008 8:25:44 GMT -6
How can you be competitive? play better than your competition....if that doesn't work, pm me for ordering information for the "magic bullet offense".
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Post by coachorr on Jan 15, 2008 10:03:55 GMT -6
Either spread them out or bring them in and be systematic in your approach.
Here is what I would run at a small school in this order: 1. DW 2. Wishbone 3. Flexbone 4. Wing T 5. (Urban Meyer's) Shot gun Spread 6. Pistol
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 15, 2008 10:35:18 GMT -6
Whatever you do, figure out the best way to get great reps in practice. You will have to use guys on both O and D and it's hard to do lots of 11 on 11 or even 7 on 7 consistently. So you have to find ways to do drills that can help you, sub guys in and out, work half line vs. half line, etc. I would say that's the biggest thing about a truly small school/squad, is finding how to get quality reps.
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Post by ghscoach on Jan 15, 2008 10:54:18 GMT -6
I totally agree with what most have said here. Solid, mistake free, disciplined, hardnosed football. As someone already said do not beat yourself, make the other team beat you. I would also add conditioning, conditioning and conditioning. With only 100 kids this will likely be iron man football for many.
As for an offense there is no magic answer. If it were me I would look into the Dead T or Bay City T as some call it. It utilizes lots of trapping and misdirection with the backs taking layered handoffs caring out fakes until the whistle blows or they are tackled. This offense seems to work well for the smaller sized schools in my area.
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Post by davecisar on Jan 15, 2008 11:13:52 GMT -6
I like to hear the logic behind the answers but would love to hear from Head Coaches that have had this exact problem solved it with xyz and been successful. Would like to hear what the XYZs were and why it worked for them.
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Post by senatorblutarsky on Jan 15, 2008 11:32:35 GMT -6
hog the ball eliminate long yardage situations be extremely disciplined to prevent penalties conservative in terms of passing but aggressive in terms of going for it on 4th and 2 attacking defense bent on getting the ball back now
shorten the game, eliminate mistakes, make the other guys BEAT YOU. do not beat yourself.
dw, wing t, sw, ...series football with lots of double teams, traps, power and misdirection.
This is what we do...
My answer is always the most annoying one, but the "great equalizer" is to COACH WHAT YOU KNOW.
Because it is what I know.
We are tiny (85 students), but before I returned here I was at a school of 2200... we basically do the same things we did there- we just adapt (i.e. if we have no TE, we run 2 SE and have a small quick package so they at least line up and cover the SEs, etc.)
We run 3 series (complements) of 3-4 plays each from 2 formations (but with shifting/motions that can give 30-40 different "looks")
In the past 4 years, the two most consistently successful programs (winning records, qualified for the playoffs each year) are:
School 1- Spread passing attack from Empty. Throw 80-90%. Run game consists of draws and an occasional speed option School 2 (us) Full house 2TE, run 95%.
In the past 4 years (since being in this district) both teams have had good athletes (undefeated regular seasons) and both have been near the bottom of the district talent-wise (2-3 loss seasons).
What we do is best for us because I know it. What they do is best for them, because they know it.
The common ground between us both is- 1. We each have a specific identity 2. We each run something "unconventional" (that is, people see what we do once a year- and what they do once a year... offensively, we are both distinctly different from our opponents). 3. Both packages are based on pretty simple schemes that rely on execution- we take fewer chances than they do and are more likely to be mistake free- they have more quick strike capabilities).
Any system will allow you to do this, if you taylor it to your needs and philosophy.
Agreed. But it is important to learn the system and not just copy what "State Champion H.S." did.
The other thing... don't be afraid to think outside the norm. Not that I want this to turn in to an "A-11" thread... but that is not a bad idea. We became single wing (some.... still go under C some) out of necessity (lost all QBs by week 6 a few years ago). The bonus is... what we do is weird, hard (for some) to prepare for, and can give us an edge (we are confident, they are unsure).
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Post by goldenbear76 on Jan 15, 2008 11:35:50 GMT -6
My advice, coach what you know, but also coach what your assistants know. I mean, if you have 1 or 2 assistant coaches..2 tight offenses such as a double wing, etc are good, they don't require the amount of position coaches that a Pro-style offense would. However, if you have a guy who's a great QB coach, a great Line coach, good defensive coordinator..don't be afraid to huck the rock, and play a balanced style of offense.
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Post by airraider on Jan 15, 2008 11:42:17 GMT -6
Have around 120 in the school here.. with about 63 male students..
We ran a wide open shotgun spread offense. We were empty probably 65% of the time on the year.. and around 95% of the time in the last 3 games..
We are GREATLY out athleted at all positions.. fasted kid runs a 4.9 forty.
We are a 99% white school.
We were relatively successful compared to the previous years. They scored less than 60 points combined for the previous 2 seasons..
We ended up winning the first game in 3 years in week 10. We ended up scoring just under 130 points on the year.. nothing special, but a huge improvement to the 31 the previous year.
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Post by bluecrazy on Jan 15, 2008 12:20:14 GMT -6
We have gotten better the last 2 years{ my 1st two after taking over a team that did not win for 5 1/2 years, one win 1st year, two last year} We run the veer option. The lineman don't block as long, and we option off there best lineman. The kids are really starting to catch on. We pass just enough to keep others honest. We 70 more points last year, than the year before. We are a school of 125 kids, most of em girls.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 15, 2008 12:47:57 GMT -6
2.5 yards per carry...sell your kids on it.
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Post by coachjd on Jan 15, 2008 13:58:38 GMT -6
I have really started to look hard into option football. There are 2 defenders to the playside you do not have to block on triple option plays (veer and midline) and if you want to run double options then 1 defender unblocked at the point of attack. Flexbone is looking more and more inviting. Look at Navy, able to compete with lesser quality athletes.
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Post by superpower on Jan 15, 2008 14:08:23 GMT -6
As we all know, there is no magic offensive system. However, I think the esteemed senatorblutarsky is on to something in his suggestion of choosing an unconventional system that is rarely seen. I also think you have to choose something and stick to it. Sell the idea to your kids and get them to buy in. If you change at the first sign of trouble, they will lose confidence in you.
I also think that with such a small school, you might want to consider an offense that is not QB intensive because you don't want an injury at that position to completely shut down your offense.
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Post by ccscoach on Jan 15, 2008 16:04:38 GMT -6
We are a zone blocking team in a similar situation and we run this because we can find one good back and 7 kids to get run over slow. We get double teams and have the ability to play-action pass. Similar to Calande's 2.5 yards a carry. Zone allows us to run a no loss play, with this philosophy. It also allows us to get about 9 plays out of one blocking scheme, which means we are always getting reps doing the same thing. Now do we have a dropback passing game. Sure but we hang our hat on being able to run inside and outside zone.
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Post by bluecrazy on Jan 15, 2008 16:31:12 GMT -6
Superpower, I agree. I was with a school that would change the offense every year. The freshman on up would learn it, than have to re-learn. coachcalande, I tell my kids the goal is 3.5 yards a carry. Than I don't have to worry about the 4th and short. bluecrazy
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Post by fbdoc on Jan 15, 2008 16:31:44 GMT -6
Have to agree with the Senator and lochness and coach what you know (and then get better at coaching it!), but I think the REAL answer lies not in how you line up, but in what you do before you line up.
Get your kids mentally and physically stronger, faster, and tougher!
Fundamental the heck out of them! Get quality reps of your base plays!
Eliminate (Reduce!) penalties and turnovers!
If you can manage those 3 things, it won't matter what offense you run.
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Post by FlexboneOne on Jan 15, 2008 18:55:49 GMT -6
I have really started to look hard into option football. There are 2 defenders to the playside you do not have to block on triple option plays (veer and midline) and if you want to run double options then 1 defender unblocked at the point of attack. Flexbone is looking more and more inviting. Look at Navy, able to compete with lesser quality athletes. Ahhhh...another convert!! I am completely biased, but I think if you asked a group of DC's what offense they hate to prepare for, the consensus would be the option. In my case, I run flexbone (with some I and Broken I sets), and the DC's (that actually talk to me!) state that they HATE playing me. Give a team 4 days to prepare for triple option football in a league where no one runs it??? The choice would be SIMPLE.
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Post by senecablue on Jan 15, 2008 20:10:49 GMT -6
Being at a small school. Our enrollment is around 115. I do agree that running something that your opponent only sees once a year is a real benefit. Also a triple option team is hard to prepare for when you only see it once a year.
For us we run the spread. We went to the spread because we had a good runningback and wanted to help our small offensive line out by spreading the defense. What we found out was that we saw the same vanilla defenses most weeks 4-4 or 5-2 with minimal blitzing. At our level we don't see advanced defensive schemes. We usually see man or cover 3 coverages.
For the running game the big thing for us is carryover. We don't zone block. We use 3 schemes - counter trey, inside veer and fly sweep blocking. We run 3 running plays out of counter trey, 3 plays from inside veer and 3 plays from fly sweep blocking schemes.
For the passing game a majority of our routes are mirrored. I know this probably isn't the best way, but it is best for us. We usually see the same defense most of the game and we don't have 4 excellent receivers. We split them out so they don't have block at the point of attack. By mirroring I feel we are giving our QB the best chance for a completion. We use simple routes Hitch/seam, skinny post/out, Curl/speed out and fade/out. We also throw the mesh and shallow. Rocket screen has been a big play for us.
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Post by kurtbryan on Jan 15, 2008 22:15:44 GMT -6
We have battled this problem for many years, and it is very similar to the David vs. Goliath, in terms of how we can best put our typical athletes to use and give them the best chance to win vs. Opponents who are usually physically a step or two faster and athletically better when compared to us, etc.
That is how we came up with our system and it works for us.
Hope this helps.
KB
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Post by superpower on Jan 16, 2008 8:13:57 GMT -6
On another post earlier this month (or maybe last) the issue of size was discussed, as in "We are always outsized by our opponents." This thread is similar but is saying "Our opponents are faster and stronger than we are." Is there really a genetic advantage in some communities, or have those places just pushed their kids harder and created superior athletes? And if so, choosing the right offense won't fix the problem by itself. At some point, expectations and work ethic have to change, or you will never close the gap.
I know my post is off the topic, and I don't mean to hijack this thread. It just seems to me that choosing an offense or defense without also getting a commitment to get bigger, faster, and stronger isn't going to fix the real problem. If your athletes aren't as good as the other teams on your schedule, there is no offense that will make them better athletes.
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Post by dsqa on Jan 17, 2008 9:46:29 GMT -6
Did this for a while and learned you cannot play football until you build football players. My biggest challenge in the small school wasn't building a killer scheme, it was getting kids to understand and "play football."
Yes, I am aware of the question - scheme, scheme, scheme? This is the scheme - scheme as many ways as you can to build football players who hit with abandonment, play for each other, will go after a ball in the air, will put in the extra time to improve and study the game, and will learn their craft. That is the scheme that will win at that level.
I know this sounds brutally basic and its a, "yeah I know that, but."
However, davecisar wants xyz - how did you do it - really?
This is it.
It isn't flashy, although I had one of the "flashiest of flashy flash" offenses in the county - I still had to hold kids hands through tears, boo-boos, moms picking them up early for tutors, birthday parties for classmates, etc.
In a school of 100 athletes, you don't have the luxury of picking who and what you like, nor are you in a position to dictate policies that you cannot enforce, or you won't have a team. You have to win with what you get, and while the multiple offenses suggested are all great, your friend has the unenviable task of needing to build around his football players - and that being only a few. I ran a multiple scheme that included elements of all kinds of offenses, but only so I could get the ball to my "football players," and away from my non-football players.
Games at the small school level are won and lost by the "football players a team has, not super athletes mind you, players who "get it" when it comes to the game and how it is played.
In my experience, the coach that uses his "football players" the best wins. There are still 22 people on the field, but usually only 10 of those, if you are fortunate, can play. And only less than 5 have the motor to go both ways and make the plays you need.
When it comes to actual scheme, Spread the field with formations, isolate defenders, misdirect with your average speed to gain a competitive advantage, run option with a lead where you can so it becomes a sweep, throw the football effectively and efficiently, and PLAY DEFENSE.
So, in conclusion, run the Spread Triple Veer Zone Double Slot Wing I Power Offense, but remember that to win you should spend 60-75% of your time practicing blocking, tackling, catching, running, and throwing, from every place on the field.
The athletes will do what they do, what you need is to get the freakin' spectators in jerseys on the field with them to get after somebody instead of having to charge them $5 admission to watch the game go on around them.
I did it for 8 years, ran multiple looks with success, but anything only worked because a handful of kids decided they were going to be "football players."
Crack the code on expanding this understanding amongst the troops and your friend could run Jeff the Expert's Offensive Secrets of Football scheme and they would win. ;D
I'm just kidding, scheme is a mission critical part of it, but it is a lot more fun building a scheme, when there are "football players" on the field.
Just my rantings...
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Post by dubber on Jan 17, 2008 13:17:12 GMT -6
Here's how I come to answer this question:
What is the equalizer defense?
Most often, the answers are simplicity, fundamentals and desire.
I apply the same answer to the equalizer offense question.
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Post by coachcalande on Jan 17, 2008 13:29:26 GMT -6
The equalizer defense is the one that stops the run - if you have the weaker athletes then stop the run, get the other guy to attempt passes, get after the qb, test the line, force poor throws and interceptions and incompletions....better yet, run an offense that keeps the other guys offense off of the field.
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Post by midlineqb on Jan 17, 2008 23:42:19 GMT -6
I feel that it doesn't really matter what offense you run whether it is at a school of 100 students or a school of 3000 students; it is what you can get the athletes to buy into that counts.
In my 38 years of coaching I have found one offense that I have been able to sell the athletes on at all levels and that is some type of option offense. It may be the flexbone, wishbone, split-back veer, spread shotgun option. Since you are running option football there are going to be 1 or 2 defenders that you don't have to block which leaves you with 11 on their 9.
Just my opinion.
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mcrsa75
Sophomore Member
Posts: 116
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Post by mcrsa75 on Jan 19, 2008 14:35:18 GMT -6
I just want to join your amen corner. only somebody who has some experience with coaching will make the comments you made. Obviously, you understand how to develop players.
mcrsa75
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