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Post by fantom on Nov 3, 2020 12:58:40 GMT -6
There have been two games recently, the Penn State-Indiana and the Atlanta Falcons game- where, instead of running time off of the clock, a runner scored a TD, allowing the opponent enough time to go down the field, score, and win. Of course, the coaches got ripped for their "lack of situational awareness". As coaches, you also know that the coaches may well have told the players the right thing to do but you can't publicly blame the player,
I was interested in hearing if others have similar stories. I do:
We were in a close game that was expected to e close. With a few seconds left we were on the opponents 25. We had a good kicker but needed to be a little closer to be sure. We call our last time out and tell them exactly what to do. The defense is playing soft coverage so we call for a 10 yard out route. We tell the receiver- a smart, veteran kid who's not looking to pad his stats- to just catch it and step out of bounds. We remind him again as they're going out onto the field.
Of course if that's what happened there wouldn't be a point to the story. Our savvy veteran receiver runs a crisp 10 yard route, catches the ball on the 15, and turns upfield to try to score. He's tackled inbounds, end of half, no score. We go on to lose a close game.
Fortunately it was pre-internet so we didn't have to hear too much about what morons we coaches are.
How about you?
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 3, 2020 13:56:00 GMT -6
There have been two games recently, the Penn State-Indiana and the Atlanta Falcons game- where, instead of running time off of the clock, a runner scored a TD, allowing the opponent enough time to go down the field, score, and win. Of course, the coaches got ripped for their "lack of situational awareness". As coaches, you also know that the coaches may well have told the players the right thing to do but you can't publicly blame the player, I was interested in hearing if others have similar stories. I do: We were in a close game that was expected to e close. With a few seconds left we were on the opponents 25. We had a good kicker but needed to be a little closer to be sure. We call our last time out and tell them exactly what to do. The defense is playing soft coverage so we call for a 10 yard out route. We tell the receiver- a smart, veteran kid who's not looking to pad his stats- to just catch it and step out of bounds. We remind him again as they're going out onto the field. Of course if that's what happened there wouldn't be a point to the story. Our savvy veteran receiver runs a crisp 10 yard route, catches the ball on the 15, and turns upfield to try to score. He's tackled inbounds, end of half, no score. We go on to lose a close game. Fortunately it was pre-internet so we didn't have to hear too much about what morons we coaches are. How about you? Actually matt ryan was mic’d up and clearly tells Gurley “get the first, then fall down. Don’t score” |
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Post by wolverine55 on Nov 3, 2020 14:03:48 GMT -6
Just this year, we faced a team with an explosive kick returner but their offense itself didn't have much firepower to it. All week, I told our punter and our kickoff guy to "not give #5 a chance to beat us." And special teams practice during the week went fairly well. We get to the game and on two punts and one kickoff, our guys literally kicked the ball right to the kid and he took the kickoff in for a touchdown and we lost 21-14.
At some point during the next week, in casual conversation, our principal asked me what went into that. I just told him I had confidence our kickoff team would make the play. Our kickoff guy literally did the opposite of what we had told him to do and had him practice all week, but I also figured I didn't need to get into that with the principal.
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Post by mattharris75 on Nov 3, 2020 14:09:11 GMT -6
We played Kerryon Johnson when he was in high school. Told the kicker, "Kick it to literally anyone but Kerryon". Where did he kick it? To Kerryon... It didn't go well for us.
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Post by coachcb on Nov 3, 2020 14:27:34 GMT -6
We went up on a team 14-8 after recovering a fumble for a score with about 30 seconds left on the clock. The opposing team had a speedster returner and our kicker had kept the ball away from him on two other kick-offs with squibs. We didn't care where they fielded the ball as long as that returner didn't touch it; he was an FCS caliber athlete and an all-state sprinter.
We pull the kicker aside and tell him "Boot it out of bounds.." He line drives it right to that returner and he takes it to the house.. They convert the two point and we lose 16-14.
To make matters worse, kicking the ball out of bounds was a scenario we repped every single week on STs...
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Post by blb on Nov 3, 2020 14:56:29 GMT -6
We went up on a team 14-8 after recovering a fumble for a score with about 30 seconds left on the clock. The opposing team had a speedster returner and our kicker had kept the ball away from him on two other kick-offs with squibs. We didn't care where they fielded the ball as long as that returner didn't touch it; he was an FCS caliber athlete and an all-state sprinter. We pull the kicker aside and tell him "Boot it out of bounds.." He line drives it right to that returner and he takes it to the house.. They convert the two point and we lose 16-14. To make matters worse, kicking the ball out of bounds was a scenario we repped every single week on STs... The joy of coaching HS football. You are at the mercy - for better or worse - of 15-18 year old kids. |
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Post by coachcb on Nov 3, 2020 15:19:37 GMT -6
We went up on a team 14-8 after recovering a fumble for a score with about 30 seconds left on the clock. The opposing team had a speedster returner and our kicker had kept the ball away from him on two other kick-offs with squibs. We didn't care where they fielded the ball as long as that returner didn't touch it; he was an FCS caliber athlete and an all-state sprinter. We pull the kicker aside and tell him "Boot it out of bounds.." He line drives it right to that returner and he takes it to the house.. They convert the two point and we lose 16-14. To make matters worse, kicking the ball out of bounds was a scenario we repped every single week on STs... The joy of coaching HS football. You are at the mercy - for better or worse - of 15-18 year old kids.
Agreed. But, that was one of those games that reminded the staff why we love coaching. That kicker was as upset as I've ever seen a kid after he kicked the ball to the returner. Every kid on that KO team consoled him and took responsibility for the play afterward. Very little we could have said as a staff would have trumped his teammates saying "That was on us..".
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Post by blb on Nov 3, 2020 15:31:49 GMT -6
The joy of coaching HS football. You are at the mercy - for better or worse - of 15-18 year old kids.
Agreed. But, that was one of those games that reminded the staff why we love coaching. That kicker was as upset as I've ever seen a kid after he kicked the ball to the returner. Every kid on that KO team consoled him and took responsibility for the play afterward. Very little we could have said as a staff would have trumped his teammates saying "That was on us..".
Understood. I coached couple teams with kids kicking-covering who were going to local Community College to be Computer Programmers etc. and kicked-punted after being instructed not to to kids who who went to play in FBS. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 3, 2020 15:54:25 GMT -6
There have been two games recently, the Penn State-Indiana and the Atlanta Falcons game- where, instead of running time off of the clock, a runner scored a TD, allowing the opponent enough time to go down the field, score, and win. Of course, the coaches got ripped for their "lack of situational awareness". As coaches, you also know that the coaches may well have told the players the right thing to do but you can't publicly blame the player, I was interested in hearing if others have similar stories. I do: We were in a close game that was expected to e close. With a few seconds left we were on the opponents 25. We had a good kicker but needed to be a little closer to be sure. We call our last time out and tell them exactly what to do. The defense is playing soft coverage so we call for a 10 yard out route. We tell the receiver- a smart, veteran kid who's not looking to pad his stats- to just catch it and step out of bounds. We remind him again as they're going out onto the field. Of course if that's what happened there wouldn't be a point to the story. Our savvy veteran receiver runs a crisp 10 yard route, catches the ball on the 15, and turns upfield to try to score. He's tackled inbounds, end of half, no score. We go on to lose a close game. Fortunately it was pre-internet so we didn't have to hear too much about what morons we coaches are. How about you? Actually matt ryan was mic’d up and clearly tells Gurley “get the first, then fall down. Don’t score” And Gurley knew it because he'd done it before. |
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Post by planck on Nov 3, 2020 16:29:15 GMT -6
We played Kerryon Johnson when he was in high school. Told the kicker, "Kick it to literally anyone but Kerryon". Where did he kick it? To Kerryon... It didn't go well for us. A few years back, we faced a kid who just killed us on returns. In 3 years (4 games) of varsity football against us, he had 6 return TDs. By year three, we were jokingly telling our kicker that if he kicks to him again we're kicking the kicker off the team. Opening kickoff goes straight to the kid, who scores. |
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Post by fantom on Nov 3, 2020 17:05:57 GMT -6
We played Kerryon Johnson when he was in high school. Told the kicker, "Kick it to literally anyone but Kerryon". Where did he kick it? To Kerryon... It didn't go well for us. A few years back, we faced a kid who just killed us on returns. In 3 years (4 games) of varsity football against us, he had 6 return TDs. By year three, we were jokingly telling our kicker that if he kicks to him again we're kicking the kicker off the team. Opening kickoff goes straight to the kid, who scores. There's just something about kickers. One year, despite practicing all week and being reminded before each kick, our punter kept wailing away at it and punting to Allen Iverson. Fortunately, all three that he returned for TDs were called back (legitimately) for penalties. |
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Post by 44dlcoach on Nov 3, 2020 18:09:30 GMT -6
We probably all have one of those kicker stories. Mine was when we were playing a team whose kick returner had run the fastest 100 meter time in the nation the previous spring. Guess our kid wanted to see if those track times were legit. They were.
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Post by Defcord on Nov 3, 2020 18:40:38 GMT -6
We went up on a team 14-8 after recovering a fumble for a score with about 30 seconds left on the clock. The opposing team had a speedster returner and our kicker had kept the ball away from him on two other kick-offs with squibs. We didn't care where they fielded the ball as long as that returner didn't touch it; he was an FCS caliber athlete and an all-state sprinter. We pull the kicker aside and tell him "Boot it out of bounds.." He line drives it right to that returner and he takes it to the house.. They convert the two point and we lose 16-14. To make matters worse, kicking the ball out of bounds was a scenario we repped every single week on STs... If I had that dude I would decline the penalty until you kicked it in bounds. Maybe your kid was just saving time.... |
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Post by wingtol on Nov 3, 2020 18:51:24 GMT -6
We went up on a team 14-8 after recovering a fumble for a score with about 30 seconds left on the clock. The opposing team had a speedster returner and our kicker had kept the ball away from him on two other kick-offs with squibs. We didn't care where they fielded the ball as long as that returner didn't touch it; he was an FCS caliber athlete and an all-state sprinter. We pull the kicker aside and tell him "Boot it out of bounds.." He line drives it right to that returner and he takes it to the house.. They convert the two point and we lose 16-14. To make matters worse, kicking the ball out of bounds was a scenario we repped every single week on STs... The joy of coaching HS football. You are at the mercy - for better or worse - of 15-18 year old kids. Was going to post...never underestimate a 17 year old under pressure. |
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 4, 2020 1:04:53 GMT -6
There have been two games recently, the Penn State-Indiana and the Atlanta Falcons game- where, instead of running time off of the clock, a runner scored a TD, allowing the opponent enough time to go down the field, score, and win. Of course, the coaches got ripped for their "lack of situational awareness". As coaches, you also know that the coaches may well have told the players the right thing to do but you can't publicly blame the player, I was interested in hearing if others have similar stories. I do: We were in a close game that was expected to e close. With a few seconds left we were on the opponents 25. We had a good kicker but needed to be a little closer to be sure. We call our last time out and tell them exactly what to do. The defense is playing soft coverage so we call for a 10 yard out route. We tell the receiver- a smart, veteran kid who's not looking to pad his stats- to just catch it and step out of bounds. We remind him again as they're going out onto the field. Of course if that's what happened there wouldn't be a point to the story. Our savvy veteran receiver runs a crisp 10 yard route, catches the ball on the 15, and turns upfield to try to score. He's tackled inbounds, end of half, no score. We go on to lose a close game. Fortunately it was pre-internet so we didn't have to hear too much about what morons we coaches are. How about you? Actually matt ryan was mic’d up and clearly tells Gurley “get the first, then fall down. Don’t score” For what it’s worth I think this clip was taken out of context, probably from the timeout a couple plays earlier, because the TD was & goal, there was no first down to be had. We lost a game because our holder/superstar receiver played too much Madden and he saw the game clock running down to zero and panicked so he called for the ball before the punter was set instead of letting the clock run to zero and snapping at our leisure. Rushed kick, no good. Missed a chance at a game winning FG because our receiver fought for extra yardage instead of going down and stopping the clock with two seconds left. You can try to cover every scenario but really you’re better off covering the more likely ones and making sure they stick. |
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Post by coachd5085 on Nov 4, 2020 6:53:40 GMT -6
Actually matt ryan was mic’d up and clearly tells Gurley “get the first, then fall down. Don’t score” For what it’s worth I think this clip was taken out of context, probably from the timeout a couple plays earlier, because the TD was & goal, there was no first down to be had. We lost a game because our holder/superstar receiver played too much Madden and he saw the game clock running down to zero and panicked so he called for the ball before the punter was set instead of letting the clock run to zero and snapping at our leisure. Rushed kick, no good. Missed a chance at a game winning FG because our receiver fought for extra yardage instead of going down and stopping the clock with two seconds left. You can try to cover every scenario but really you’re better off covering the more likely ones and making sure they stick. Didn’t watch the game, so I can’t comment on particulars. That said, if there was no opportunity to get the first down, I question the playcall. Why not either take a knee, or run a sweep (which uses up more time generally than something more north and south)? |
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Post by Chris Clement on Nov 4, 2020 6:56:32 GMT -6
Charitably I’d say because he knows that FG% is very dependent on kick distance, and that every bit counts, and that even if he scores by accident it’s possibly still better than the longer kick (I’d have to run the numbers).
Cynically I’d say because many NFL coaches get wrapped up in the moment and are not great at managing the clock, the situation, and the play call.
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Post by carookie on Nov 4, 2020 10:06:20 GMT -6
As a whole, I think this points to the difference of "coaching" and "telling". If you work all week on teaching your players how to score, constantly harping on and developing the skills to do so; then at the last minute you "tell" them to do something different than that.... well one could see why they may fail to make that last minute adjustment.
We are what we repeatedly do, in the heat of competition we rely back on those instincts that have been developed. I tell my players all the time we develop these fundamental skills so they become just like breathing and you can perform them without thinking. If they are coached up well it should be hard to break that habit.
Now, thats not to write that this doesnt seem like a reasonable request, and that a player couldnt just strongly focus on the words you told them. Rather that days, weeks, and years of being coached to do something can add up and develop habits that are hard to break. I used to coach with a guy who angrily would yell at his position players, "what do I tell you all the time?" I would chuckle, of course they are not doing what you 'TELL' them, they will do what they repeatedly do.
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Post by bleefb on Nov 4, 2020 10:50:07 GMT -6
We probably all have one of those kicker stories. Mine was when we were playing a team whose kick returner had run the fastest 100 meter time in the nation the previous spring. Guess our kid wanted to see if those track times were legit. They were. My kicker story is a little different. We scheduled a game in Hawaii one year (from California) and in the meeting where we told the kids he asked us "Can we drive our cars or are we taking the bus." He was dead serious. |
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Post by blb on Nov 4, 2020 12:06:29 GMT -6
We probably all have one of those kicker stories. Mine was when we were playing a team whose kick returner had run the fastest 100 meter time in the nation the previous spring. Guess our kid wanted to see if those track times were legit. They were. My kicker story is a little different. We scheduled a game in Hawaii one year (from California) and in the meeting where we told the kids he asked us "Can we drive our cars or are we taking the bus." He was dead serious. Had a kid once ask me, when looking at our schedule for the season, if Homecoming was a home game that year. |
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Post by newhope on Nov 4, 2020 12:48:29 GMT -6
I once had a freshman QB who lost his mind at the end of a game. We were taking a knee. We had practiced it. He took the snap and hurled it backwards down the field. Fortunately the deep back scooped it up about 10 yds or so behind the QB and then ran around all over the field before before being tackled at the one with no time left on the clock. At least we didn't have to try it again. QB was never ever to explain what he was doing.
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Post by cqmiller on Nov 4, 2020 13:21:19 GMT -6
We had a team lose their playoff game this past week on the following:
They score a TD to tie with 6 seconds left in the game. Almost everyone in the stadium is thinking "here comes overtime"...
They kick deep to the best player on the other team...
Buzzer sounds as the kid is breaking into the open for the game-winning KOR.
THAT SUCKS
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Post by M4 on Nov 4, 2020 14:17:37 GMT -6
My question for the falcons example is, sure you can tell the kid not to score but why not in that situation just take a knee, get the clock running, call TO and kick the FG
Why even put it in the hands of the RB when theres an easier way for the coach to control the situation?
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Post by rystaylo on Nov 4, 2020 14:51:56 GMT -6
I’m guessing they needed a first in order to run out the clock.
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Post by M4 on Nov 4, 2020 16:51:03 GMT -6
I’m guessing they needed a first in order to run out the clock. Atlanta down 16-14 gets a first down on Det 10 with 1:04 left. Det takes last time out First and goal from the ten Why not take the knee. Let the clock run. Call to or spoke to kill. Kick fg. Win. Instead they run the ball, gurley scores. Rest is history. |
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Post by bigmoot on Nov 4, 2020 17:52:21 GMT -6
Being from Georgia I can answer the Falcon Question: Because they are the Falcons and that's what they do.
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Post by fkaboneyard on Nov 5, 2020 11:01:19 GMT -6
Another kicker story -
I was coaching middle school many years ago and we were in the championship game. One of the rules of the league was that every kid had to get 8 plays (there were people standing on the sidelines with clipboards, logging each kid running in and out). It was a dogfight game and we went up by a point with a minute left.
Our kicker was not the brightest bulb on the tree. The other team, having stuck with their best players all game, was now forced to put in their benchwarmers. The opposing team put two absolute nubs back to receive the kick. We were all feeling good and that the game was in the bag. We told the kicker, "You have got to kick it as deep as you can. Understand? As deep as you can." The kid looks at us and goes, "Yes, Coach." The kid lines up to kick and nearly whiffs the kick but hits it just on the side so that it spins upright like a top. The ball goes forward about 3 yards and then returns back toward our kids on a giant loop. Our kids think they're not supposed to touch it because it hasn't gone 10 yards so they all ran away from it like it's a punt. The other team picked up the ball and ran it in for the score and the win. After the game when asked what happened, the boy said, "I was trying to kick it out of bounds, I didn't think they'd expect that."
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Post by Defcord on Nov 5, 2020 11:23:54 GMT -6
With so many kicking stories...what do you guys do to practice making sure a kicker/punter isn't intentionally or accidentally kicking it to a stud?
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Post by hsrose on Nov 5, 2020 11:54:16 GMT -6
With so many kicking stories...what do you guys do to practice making sure a kicker/punter isn't intentionally or accidentally kicking it to a stud? I can't tell you how many times I've told the kicker not to kick the ball anywhere near their guy and it ends up settling into his arms without him having to move a step. I used to see it a lot in soccer, kid would have a breakaway at the goal, nobody but him and the keeper, and the kick is made and it hits the goalie in the chest. The whole net is open and the goalie doesn't move an inch. I just don't know what it is about kickers. And we practiced squibbing, rugby, away corner, near corner, just didn't matter. "Look, kick the ball to the right corner, squib it in that direction." In practice, sheer perfection. In the game, returner moves 3 steps to his right and catches the ball on a dead run, scattering my guys like pins in a bowling alley. |
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Post by blb on Nov 5, 2020 13:23:09 GMT -6
Another kicker story -
I was coaching middle school many years ago and we were in the championship game. One of the rules of the league was that every kid had to get 8 plays (there were people standing on the sidelines with clipboards, logging each kid running in and out). It was a dogfight game and we went up by a point with a minute left.
Our kicker was not the brightest bulb on the tree. The other team, having stuck with their best players all game, was now forced to put in their benchwarmers. The opposing team put two absolute nubs back to receive the kick. We were all feeling good and that the game was in the bag. We told the kicker, "You have got to kick it as deep as you can. Understand? As deep as you can." The kid looks at us and goes, "Yes, Coach." The kid lines up to kick and nearly whiffs the kick but hits it just on the side so that it spins upright like a top. The ball goes forward about 3 yards and then returns back toward our kids on a giant loop. Our kids think they're not supposed to touch it because it hasn't gone 10 yards so they all ran away from it like it's a punt. The other team picked up the ball and ran it in for the score and the win. After the game when asked what happened, the boy said, "I was trying to kick it out of bounds, I didn't think they'd expect that."
Maybe if you told him they had "two absolute nubs" back deep he would've kicked it there? But then knowing MS kids, probably not. He had a better idea. |
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