RnS-OC
Sophomore Member
Posts: 117
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Post by RnS-OC on Sept 15, 2020 0:45:32 GMT -6
Do you folks have a certain coaching position (OL, DL, QB, etc.) that you find difficult to staff year after year?
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Post by bleefb on Sept 15, 2020 0:48:14 GMT -6
I would guess O-Line and Special Teams
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Post by CS on Sept 15, 2020 3:51:19 GMT -6
O line
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Post by realdawg on Sept 15, 2020 4:20:32 GMT -6
O Line bc it is most important position coach. I would also add that really good DB and DL coaches are hard to find as well.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 15, 2020 12:01:42 GMT -6
Offensive line and secondary.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 15, 2020 12:07:34 GMT -6
In my experience, they are all hard to find because you end up getting a lot of guys who want to coach on Fridays, but not the other 6 days of the week. Then there are a lot of guys who want to coach and love the game, but really don't know enough scheme or universal terminology that you can just cut them loose.
I'll agree with what the guys above me have said though... Guys who TRULY know the OL and can teach it to the kids are hard to find and getting a DB coach who can teach the details is difficult as well. Lots of guys have just "backpedal and drive on the football" their whole life and not actually learned technique on things.
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Post by aceback76 on Sept 15, 2020 12:10:36 GMT -6
Do you folks have a certain coaching position (OL, DL, QB, etc.) that you find difficult to staff year after year? OL & DB's = where we need our BEST!
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Post by nicku on Sept 15, 2020 13:52:44 GMT -6
It also seems like the really good OL guys stick around and never leave.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 15, 2020 14:28:00 GMT -6
It also seems like the really good OL guys stick around and never leave.
That's because bad OL coaches get fired quick. Lol
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Post by Defcord on Sept 15, 2020 16:49:21 GMT -6
I coach OL and DB. They are tough positions and are the ones that take all the blame when something goes wrong. When offense can’t move the ball it’s because the line can’t block and when the defense can’t stop anyone it’s because the dbs aren’t deeper than the deepest.
I played offensive line that’s why I coach there and out of a random twist in my career I got linked up with DBs. A really good DC told me the reason he coached DBs was because when the ball is in the air over everyone’s he dang sure wants to make sure they’ve been coached right.
I’m a nomad and been all over the place. I’m not really sure which positions are the hardest to staff and would say some of it is luck of the draw but I would say in almost 20 years of coaching I’ve only been on one staff that didn’t have a hole or two in the staff (when I was young I was that weak spot for a while) where one group needed a better coach. Finding a full staff in places I have been is nearly impossible.
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Post by carookie on Sept 15, 2020 18:40:05 GMT -6
I think most answers here are focusing on what they feel is the most important position on the staff, but I think there is a difference between most difficult to find someone, and by find someone I don't mean good- but just capable. For me its QB, or technically could be kicker once you see my reasons.
I am big on position coaches instructing mechanical fundamentals. For most positions mechanical fundamentals have a lot of crossover, and the intuitive focus on traditional athletic movements works (ie hands, feet, knee bend, etc). Along those lines, there can be carryover of skills between multiple positions: tackling, blocking, catching, block destruction, moving in space, etc. So much so that coaches who traditionally work with one position can readily transfer over skills to another.
Quarterback is different though, as the fundamental mechanical movements of throwing the ball are unique to the position relative to football. Anyone can talk through read progression with a player, but I need a QB coach who will implement and understand drills that ensure my QB is throwing the ball at his peak abilities. And as such QB is more difficult because the skill set is so unique.
Moreover, its a numbers game. There are far more people who play and understand every other position, as every other position has more players within that position, than QB. So while there maybe a ton of dads out there who think they can chalk up some plays and be a QB coach, I think they are rare.
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Post by center on Sept 16, 2020 7:57:11 GMT -6
DC is getting hard to fill. A lot of scout work that needs to be done. Also keeping up with the diversity of offenses today, even in high school.
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Post by fantom on Sept 16, 2020 11:17:51 GMT -6
For me its QB, or technically could be kicker once you see my reasons. Kickers' coaches are definitely hard to find.
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Post by dblwngr on Sept 16, 2020 11:38:21 GMT -6
Oline and it's not even close.
I was an Oline coach and D-cord 21 years until finally this season we found a good Oline guy to free me up. This was the same case at both the schools I was at during that time. I'm sure you can imagine what my weekends have looked like over the years. Thank God my wife and kids think it's cool that I'm a coach!
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Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2020 18:11:55 GMT -6
Oline and it's not even close. I was an Oline coach and D-cord 21 years until finally this season we found a good Oline guy to free me up. This was the same case at both the schools I was at during that time. I'm sure you can imagine what my weekends have looked like over the years. Thank God my wife and kids think it's cool that I'm a coach! the o line coach here is 63 I think. Anyways, I am convinced my boss will be done when the ol-coach Decided to call it a day, either Together or soon after
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Post by mrjvi on Sept 16, 2020 19:13:03 GMT -6
It wasn't until I moved myself to the OL that we made a jump in our offense. It's not because I'm any kind of guru. I just pay huge attention to detail and at this time no OL guys are really available. Some have been real good in the past but they move on as head coaches eventually. I'm not saying I don't pay attention to the rest of the "O" but I usually have good guys there. OL for sure.
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Post by mrjvi on Sept 16, 2020 19:14:40 GMT -6
I'm 60 and I still get very excited each fall or I guess I better say spring this year.
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Post by carookie on Sept 16, 2020 20:00:03 GMT -6
I'm interested as to WHY OL is the hardest to staff in the opinion of many?
I've read here that people feel its where you need your best coach, and that they are the position that get the blame; but no reason as to why this position would be more difficult to staff than any other. If we are asking all of our position coaches to do essentially the same tasks with their given position what specifically makes it harder to find someone who can do that task with the o-line?
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Post by jml on Sept 16, 2020 21:27:16 GMT -6
I'm interested as to WHY OL is the hardest to staff in the opinion of many? I've read here that people feel its where you need your best coach, and that they are the position that get the blame; but no reason as to why this position would be more difficult to staff than any other. If we are asking all of our position coaches to do essentially the same tasks with their given position what specifically makes it harder to find someone who can do that task with the o-line? If your 5th best at any other position sucks you are okay, if your 5th best OL sucks you are in trouble. Plus you are taking the most unathletic players and teaching them the most technical positions on the field. IMHO
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Post by bleefb on Sept 17, 2020 0:20:51 GMT -6
I'm interested as to WHY OL is the hardest to staff in the opinion of many? I've read here that people feel its where you need your best coach, and that they are the position that get the blame; but no reason as to why this position would be more difficult to staff than any other. If we are asking all of our position coaches to do essentially the same tasks with their given position what specifically makes it harder to find someone who can do that task with the o-line? The O-Line and their coach does all of the grunt work. They never do any of the "fun" things, unless you think hitting the sled is fun. He is also responsible for 5 starting positions out of 11, usually alone, so there is a lot of responsibility, but none of the "glory." As mentioned above, if things go wrong it must be his fault because everyone knows how great the RB or QB is if he could "just get some blocking!" It takes a special personality to play O-Line and the same to coach it.
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Post by CS on Sept 17, 2020 3:20:32 GMT -6
I'm interested as to WHY OL is the hardest to staff in the opinion of many? I've read here that people feel its where you need your best coach, and that they are the position that get the blame; but no reason as to why this position would be more difficult to staff than any other. If we are asking all of our position coaches to do essentially the same tasks with their given position what specifically makes it harder to find someone who can do that task with the o-line? Because every head coach knows it’s the most important position to get right but hardly any will coach it or know how to coach it so you have to find someone you trust to do it for you
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Post by pvogel on Sept 17, 2020 3:28:46 GMT -6
I'm interested as to WHY OL is the hardest to staff in the opinion of many? I've read here that people feel its where you need your best coach, and that they are the position that get the blame; but no reason as to why this position would be more difficult to staff than any other. If we are asking all of our position coaches to do essentially the same tasks with their given position what specifically makes it harder to find someone who can do that task with the o-line? It's an important position that demands a lot. Dude has to be locked in and in-tune with 45% of the players on the field. And it has to be someone that is ok (honestly much better if they love it) with being "just" an OL coach. If you do get a good one he may have coordinator ambitions. The OL coach isn't glamorous. But it takes so much time and devotion and that should be all that he does. And he has to be good with that. That is pretty hard to find.
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Post by pvogel on Sept 17, 2020 3:33:13 GMT -6
OL and DB are the most important positions on the field.
But the hardest coaches to find are ones willing to embrace the GA/QC type role. Breaking down film, inputing data, making scout cards. It is such a great learning experience (and helps the coordinators so much) but I have never found such an assistant in 5 years as an OC. Like CQMiller said - everyone wants to coach on Friday. Everyone wants to create and call plays. But finding people willing to work in their role for the "greater good"... that's tough.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 17, 2020 6:05:39 GMT -6
DC is getting hard to fill. A lot of scout work that needs to be done. Also keeping up with the diversity of offenses today, even in high school.
Agreed... Being a DC can be tough. You need all of the positions firing on all cylinders in order to succeed. That takes a fair amount of coordination and communication at practice. IME, being an OC is easier; you'll be alright as long as the OL does their job and a couple of kids know how to run to daylight. Lol
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Post by pvogel on Sept 17, 2020 7:30:57 GMT -6
DC is getting hard to fill. A lot of scout work that needs to be done. Also keeping up with the diversity of offenses today, even in high school.
Agreed... Being a DC can be tough. You need all of the positions firing on all cylinders in order to succeed. That takes a fair amount of coordination and communication at practice. IME, being an OC is easier; you'll be alright as long as the OL does their job and a couple of kids know how to run to daylight. Lol
I haven't been a DC. The adventurer in me wants to give it a shot. But I believe that being a DC is more difficult Saturday through Thursday. But being an OC might be more difficult on gameday. Or maybe we just tend to overthink or try to get cute and creative and we put that on ourselves. But I also think lots of DCs overthink themselves during the week. Tendencies are great and all but we're usually just doing a few things but responding to how you line up and your personnel. And if you line up differently than our previous opponents and you have different players... then it's going to be a little different. Like I coached for a dude that was obsessive and drew and repped EVERYTHING. We played a team that ran weak toss from the I A TON against a 4 man over front with no overhang weak side. I'm like... dude... they're not going to do that against our 3-3 stack where we ALWAYS have an overhang. But we repped it in practice... the defense killed the scout O because they had stupid numbers... and then they never ran it in the game. Obviously. But we gave up 40+ points because they did all kinds of other stuff that was similar to what they already did but utilizing the numbers that were present against our defense that wasn't there against others. Everyone thinks they can run an offense though. It is truly quite annoying. People can tell when your D is bad. But they rarely offer real, tangible football solutions (other than JUST BLITZ EM COACH! BRING PRESSURE!). But EVERYONE gives "solutions" on Offense. Even when there's no dang problem.
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Post by pistolwhipped on Sept 17, 2020 7:34:57 GMT -6
Middle School.
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Post by Defcord on Sept 17, 2020 7:56:09 GMT -6
Agreed... Being a DC can be tough. You need all of the positions firing on all cylinders in order to succeed. That takes a fair amount of coordination and communication at practice. IME, being an OC is easier; you'll be alright as long as the OL does their job and a couple of kids know how to run to daylight. Lol
I haven't been a DC. The adventurer in me wants to give it a shot. But I believe that being a DC is more difficult Saturday through Thursday. But being an OC might be more difficult on gameday. Or maybe we just tend to overthink or try to get cute and creative and we put that on ourselves. But I also think lots of DCs overthink themselves during the week. Tendencies are great and all but we're usually just doing a few things but responding to how you line up and your personnel. And if you line up differently than our previous opponents and you have different players... then it's going to be a little different. Like I coached for a dude that was obsessive and drew and repped EVERYTHING. We played a team that ran weak toss from the I A TON against a 4 man over front with no overhang weak side. I'm like... dude... they're not going to do that against our 3-3 stack where we ALWAYS have an overhang. But we repped it in practice... the defense killed the scout O because they had stupid numbers... and then they never ran it in the game. Obviously. But we gave up 40+ points because they did all kinds of other stuff that was similar to what they already did but utilizing the numbers that were present against our defense that wasn't there against others. Everyone thinks they can run an offense though. It is truly quite annoying. People can tell when your D is bad. But they rarely offer real, tangible football solutions (other than JUST BLITZ EM COACH! BRING PRESSURE!). But EVERYONE gives "solutions" on Offense. Even when there's no dang problem. You are right on the money here with some of your points. DC's worry way too much. There is no doubt about it, but when a defense makes a mistake it is game changing and can be a TD. Some DCs get way too crazy with the tendencies and take time away from what matters most. I worked with a guy would want to practice against every play they ran. We were at a small school and we were getting 90 plays a week in group and team periods because every coach and every player worked both sides of the ball. To me you need to spend most of your time repping what they are going to run most of the time. 90% of our group and team periods in practice are going to be against their Top 3 runs and Top 3 Passes. The rest of the time is going to be against plays that can kill us. Wheels out of the backfield, switch routes, tricks, etc. and we will hope for the best when they run that QB draw they ran three weeks ago against a different front. I enjoy being a DC. But I think the biggest frustration is that people, too often offensive coaches, think you can just line up 11 dudes that have a little bit of athleticism and let them run. Defense is a skilled part of the game and the guys that say "just line up some fast dudes" worry me because when I coach the offensive line I want to know if the defense is trying to spill or box, but I have worked with offensive guys that don't know that stuff. A defensive end will squeeze a downblock and wrong arm a puller on counter and make a big play and a coach will say "wow that's what you can do when you have athletes." Well no that's what you can do when you have athletes that are well coached. When you just have athletes that dude gets kicked out or runs five yards past the play. Now to be fair to the offensive coordinators, there is not a job in the world that 99% of people think they can do better at than you. It's obnoxious and the dummies answer is always one of two things. Either the get the line to block or do opposite of what you just did. You just ran the ball and it didn't work so these morons assume passing it would work just because it is different.
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Post by coachcb on Sept 17, 2020 8:48:23 GMT -6
Agreed... Being a DC can be tough. You need all of the positions firing on all cylinders in order to succeed. That takes a fair amount of coordination and communication at practice. IME, being an OC is easier; you'll be alright as long as the OL does their job and a couple of kids know how to run to daylight. Lol
I haven't been a DC. The adventurer in me wants to give it a shot. But I believe that being a DC is more difficult Saturday through Thursday. But being an OC might be more difficult on gameday. Or maybe we just tend to overthink or try to get cute and creative and we put that on ourselves. But I also think lots of DCs overthink themselves during the week. Tendencies are great and all but we're usually just doing a few things but responding to how you line up and your personnel. And if you line up differently than our previous opponents and you have different players... then it's going to be a little different. Like I coached for a dude that was obsessive and drew and repped EVERYTHING. We played a team that ran weak toss from the I A TON against a 4 man over front with no overhang weak side. I'm like... dude... they're not going to do that against our 3-3 stack where we ALWAYS have an overhang. But we repped it in practice... the defense killed the scout O because they had stupid numbers... and then they never ran it in the game. Obviously. But we gave up 40+ points because they did all kinds of other stuff that was similar to what they already did but utilizing the numbers that were present against our defense that wasn't there against others. Everyone thinks they can run an offense though. It is truly quite annoying. People can tell when your D is bad. But they rarely offer real, tangible football solutions (other than JUST BLITZ EM COACH! BRING PRESSURE!). But EVERYONE gives "solutions" on Offense. Even when there's no dang problem.
Having done both, here's my two cents:
Yes, being a DC on game night isn't that difficult if you don't overthink things and you've done your job that week. I know I need to slow down and breath if my call sheet is longer than a half page. Worst comes to worst, we play "base" all game. With that being said, it can be frustrating as you watch a chit ton of film and prepare the kids just to have them play poorly. And, it's can be stuff that you have a hard time anticipating and you typically can't adjust to.
Last season, we pursued and tackled well for the first three weeks of the season. As such, we backed off during Week 4 to rep other areas. We still practiced pursuing and tackling daily but we kept the drills short n' sweet and we looked good. The result; we were AWFUL on Friday night. We had more missed tackles that game than the other three weeks combined. To make matters worse, we had pulled back on those two fundamentals to rep proper blitz technique (coverage, reading, redirecting, etc..). We could properly execute ONE of the four stunts we game planned for that night..
I, personally, find it much easier to be an OC. We've got enough tools in the tool-box to game plan and (hopefully) get the job done. We'll walk in with a thorough game plan but it'll go out the window in a hurry if we find something we can exploit. We run the Wing-T but I have no issue calling hitches to our SE/x over and over again if that CB is playing off. And, if worst comes to worst, we'll run the ball, chew up the clock and get out of there quickly. We're not going to chuck n' duck in an attempt to make a losing score look better against a team that's whooping our a$$.
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Post by dblwngr on Sept 17, 2020 9:33:18 GMT -6
I would have to also add that even though it's been tough coaching oline and being a Dcord at the same time, it's probably the best thing to help my career.
Having an understanding of what needs to happen up front helps on the defensive side in so many ways and vice versa. Blitz packages for the week have a lot to do with knowing what kind of protections we'll face and having a good idea of what kind of adjustments we might see if we're successful.
I can also say that some may be surprised just how much some of the Oline drills and techniques actually carry over to DB's.
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Post by realdawg on Sept 17, 2020 9:44:28 GMT -6
Not a coaching position on the field. But I’m finding out a wt room guy is pretty hard to find. And everyone things they are one.
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