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Post by cqmiller on Sept 9, 2020 10:46:44 GMT -6
Those of you who have been around the board for a while know that I'm all about the data entry, statistical analysis, and nerdy side of things. The past few years I've noticed that there are a lot of programs that are winning programs that come to my clinic sessions on HUDL and how to organize their weekends/coaches/etc... to try and actually use everything HUDL can do for you and have an efficient way to get everything into HUDL and get stats done as quickly and as accurately as possible.
I don't want to step on HUDL's toes or get them mad since they help this website out so much, but how many guys out there do you think would be willing to pay much less than they pay for Assist and try to get organized enough that the stat-guys can get the stats done in far less time, but with way higher accuracy?
For instance, with our setup we have on our staff (8 coaches), we are able to get 79 different columns of data in for our Friday night games in about 1 hour. Which then lets the stat guy (me) get all the stats for O, D, ST, into Maxpreps in about 1 hour. Then we are able to get all the columns we want for our trade-films done in less than 2 hours. I have a few guys who have reached out to me waiting on data for 6 or 7 hours, then have to fix 20-30% of it.
How much would a training/in-service be worth to a staff for someone to come in and streamline that process for your program?
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Post by Yash on Sept 9, 2020 12:06:18 GMT -6
My issue with paying someone to do just my games is that if I get a hudl assist game from 3 weeks ago... it has the data right now. Sure some of it is off, but honestly I can correct that as i watch pretty quick. If I had someone else break it down its at least an hour and thats saying they can start as soon as I get it. In the wild west of film exchange, sometimes you can find a game from someone on a Tuesday or Wednesday on some weird trade... well if I can get assist data right then, thats valuable. I dont' want to wait for my breakdown guy to have time to do it. Just my 2 cents-- others feel differently. Its all about what works for your staff.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 9, 2020 12:49:30 GMT -6
My issue with paying someone to do just my games is that if I get a hudl assist game from 3 weeks ago... it has the data right now. Sure some of it is off, but honestly I can correct that as i watch pretty quick. If I had someone else break it down its at least an hour and thats saying they can start as soon as I get it. In the wild west of film exchange, sometimes you can find a game from someone on a Tuesday or Wednesday on some weird trade... well if I can get assist data right then, thats valuable. I dont' want to wait for my breakdown guy to have time to do it. Just my 2 cents-- others feel differently. Its all about what works for your staff. But does that HUDL assist data come with your terminology already? I'm listed on like 4 different school HUDL accounts and I get random emails from HUDL saying they have finished tagging a game, but it is usually well after we already have the same data in. I'm at a program where we can NO WAY afford to pay more money to HUDL than we already do... I assume there has to be programs out there where the money they can save on that makes things a lot easier on their programs. Just the ability to have all of your ODK, DN, DIST, YL, HASH, PLAYCALL data into HUDL less than 10 minutes after the game is over makes everything take less than half the time it used to back in the day.
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Post by coachklee on Sept 9, 2020 20:35:51 GMT -6
When our stat guy does our games it is done under a minute after getting a WiFi signal to upload the data & with high accuracy. Our back-up stat guys are usually pretty good too. HC clicks the upload to Hudl & sends a .pdf of the game or link to the game via Hudl to the local news outlets. Meanwhile, if the film uploads fast enough we can intercut the ODK / D&D / stats with the film & be done with all of it in about 60 minutes or less with most of the time spent on waiting for the film to fully upload.
As far as Hudl Assist we’ve used it here & there for $35 a game towards the end of the season. If formations are “normal” and you’ve set the assist diagrams they’ve come back mostly accurate IME & with quick enough turn around for us to never impact game planning. So I guess the magic price would be something LESS than $35.
EDIT: not sure on the training / stream lining. How big of a staff do you think you need working on things to get it to the times you are talking about?
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Post by Yash on Sept 11, 2020 6:49:09 GMT -6
I guess I'm at a place where funding for hudl assist is easier to come by than help to do the tagging and live stats portion.
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Post by mdunham on Sept 11, 2020 10:41:46 GMT -6
I guess I'm at a place where funding for hudl assist is easier to come by than help to do the tagging and live stats portion. I’m in a similar boat. We fundraise for it so we use the 24hr turnaround and I’ll send games ahead of time so if I’m waiting for a tape it’s only the previous one. I’ve done all the tagging myself in the past (basic data then stuff for D). It was a ton of work. I just feel like with Assist I can focus more time on tagging other football stuff. Most of the guys on staff have limited weekend time or limited computer/HUDL know how so I just take on the responsibility. Live stats I keep on a folded piece of paper. I write yard line, ball carrier/rec and a gn/ls. On bus ride if we have anything notable I’ll add it quick to call the papers. That piece of paper helps me tag yardlines quicker later in the night.
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Post by pvogel on Sept 13, 2020 8:09:18 GMT -6
I guess I'm at a place where funding for hudl assist is easier to come by than help to do the tagging and live stats portion. This is exactly what it comes down to. Way better to have it done manually by a dedicated individual(s). But... i've been finding this very hard to find. I've been an OC that is also doing all the tagging for O/D/K & D&D while still trying to input data for game planning and its a lot. But I do prefer the accuracy of getting it done right. In hindsight though for my sanity and personal life it probably would've been beneficial to have the less accurate but quicker way. I just hate doing it like that and resigning to something that is not as good or accurate for the sake of convenience. The reality is we should have enough people on staff putting in the necessary work to make it happen.
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Post by airraidallday on Sept 22, 2020 6:05:19 GMT -6
So to work around this at my program where we barely have enough money for HUDL as is, I have built a custom google sheet that has data entered into it during the game by box staff and it automatically pulls game stats, updates season stats, and runs a weekly overview. From there its maybe 30 minutes of work to get my per down efficiencies done and any advance stats I want to pull. Will the call sheet and data already done getting it entered into HUDL doesnt take very long cause I can fly down the list. I'm always iterating this sheet too to try and automate more of the stat scrubbing off of the data entry page.
My off season project this coming off season is to build a similar sheet for defensive statistics so that I can have it all done during the game just by box staff doing their job.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 22, 2020 17:52:15 GMT -6
So to work around this at my program where we barely have enough money for HUDL as is, I have built a custom google sheet that has data entered into it during the game by box staff and it automatically pulls game stats, updates season stats, and runs a weekly overview. From there its maybe 30 minutes of work to get my per down efficiencies done and any advance stats I want to pull. Will the call sheet and data already done getting it entered into HUDL doesnt take very long cause I can fly down the list. I'm always iterating this sheet too to try and automate more of the stat scrubbing off of the data entry page. My off season project this coming off season is to build a similar sheet for defensive statistics so that I can have it all done during the game just by box staff doing their job. That's my next step as well... currently we can get all of the ODK, DN, DIST, YL, HASH, PLAYCALL into HUDL within 5 minutes of our game being over. I don't have enough support staff to have another person or 2 doing anything statistical on Game-Night. But my coach in charge of "stats columns" on HUDL can get the RUSHER, PASSER, RECEIVER, TACKLER1, TACKLER 2 filled out in about 30 minutes, which means stats can be done at that point. Not where I want to be yet, but we are taking a team that has been 4-37 over the past 4 years (0-10 twice, 1-9 twice, 2-8 in 2015) and rebuild it. Pretty much nobody in the community is willing to help out currently. We are 2-4 right now, and have 3 of our final 4 games that are winable. If we end up 5-5, I'm sure I'll have people coming out of the woodwork to help.
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Post by buckeye7525 on Sept 22, 2020 17:59:18 GMT -6
cqmiller do you get all of those post game statistics entered so fast just by dividing up the work or do you have something you do on game that helps.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 22, 2020 18:11:38 GMT -6
cqmiller do you get all of those post game statistics entered so fast just by dividing up the work or do you have something you do on game that helps. I've got a spreadsheet that my 1 volunteer I have fills out while the game is happening. The headings are labeled exactly what the columns are in HUDL and if he can get as many of those as possible during the game. It makes EVERYTHING else go 100x faster. From that list, I have a guy who just takes the "PLAYCALL" column and puts the OFF FORM, SHIFT, MOTION, OFF PLAY, PASS PRO, CONCEPT1, CONCEPT2 into the separate columns. It takes like 5 minutes for the entire game. Same thing with the defensive playcall going into DEF PER, FRONT, STUNT, BLITZ, COVERAGE columns. So basically, within 10-15 minutes of the game ending, we have our ENTIRE basic data (ODK, DN, DIST, YL, HASH) and our entire OFF and DEF sets into HUDL. After that, we split it up and have the various coaches put in data to help us find clips later. For instance, once we have our defensive data in, our defensive staff will enter all the data for the offense we faced. When the kids get to school on Saturday for recovery/film. They can see that we ran 40 Mike Go Silver vs. Doubles 5-Step Smash on clip #2. Makes watching fil m take 1/10 the time it used to. The playcall and what play we are facing are labeled at the top before the play. You can watch 50 plays in the same amount of time it used to take to watch 10 in the old-days.
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Post by buckeye7525 on Sept 22, 2020 18:53:03 GMT -6
I like that coach. Very efficient for you guys. Can you explain how that data makes the film watching go faster for you with the kids on Saturday?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2020 19:45:09 GMT -6
Why not get a math nerd(with all due respect, and I have great respect for math and science) or somebody of the like to just sit in the coaches office and do it in real time on game night, will be completely done by the time the game is over? Of course not, but you could probably have it by the time you leave that same night. Let a math nerd be a jock....
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Post by planck on Sept 23, 2020 6:19:32 GMT -6
We've experimented with just importing CSV files of the data into Hudl. It takes at least 2-3 guys on a stats team go get it all down live, though. If you can swing it, I'd recommend it. In the future, I think we're going to assign freshmen/soph/ms coaches to do that so we can funnel some booster money to them to help them out and make them feel more part of the program.
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 23, 2020 8:58:55 GMT -6
I like that coach. Very efficient for you guys. Can you explain how that data makes the film watching go faster for you with the kids on Saturday? Old School (when I played) = VHS .....Watch a play once to see what the heck it is supposed to be (maybe have to watch twice) .....Watch again now that we know the play and look for anything glaring that is wrong .....Watch a 3rd time to see if there is something small that you can point out and fix Every time you need to do it, you have to rewind. Takes forever. Can't skip ahead or back or anything quickly. HUDL without data .....Watch a play once to see what it is (or try to match the play to a paper playsheet that may or may not be in the same order) .....Watch it again and look at the wide view to correct any skill position mistakes .....Watch the EZ view to correct any box mistakes Still can't move ahead or back quickly because you have to watch the start of the play to see if it is the one you are looking for HUDL with data .....Pull up the video and the info is at the top. Everyone can see it is supposed to be Power Rt .....Watch the wide angle and fix the skills .....Watch the EZ angle and fix the box If you need to jump ahead or go back, you can do it very quickly because you are looking for the blown coverage in the 3rd quarter where they get a TD so you find the clip marked D with a K right after it with a 65 yard gain and there it is. No hunting for anything. If you do what our staff does, then you already have a playlist of the 15-20 clips you want to watch with the kids already cutup before they get there. Then you don't have to search at all. You just watch those clips you already tagged.
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Post by buckeye7525 on Sept 24, 2020 5:44:14 GMT -6
I like that coach. Very efficient for you guys. Can you explain how that data makes the film watching go faster for you with the kids on Saturday? Old School (when I played) = VHS .....Watch a play once to see what the heck it is supposed to be (maybe have to watch twice) .....Watch again now that we know the play and look for anything glaring that is wrong .....Watch a 3rd time to see if there is something small that you can point out and fix Every time you need to do it, you have to rewind. Takes forever. Can't skip ahead or back or anything quickly. HUDL without data .....Watch a play once to see what it is (or try to match the play to a paper playsheet that may or may not be in the same order) .....Watch it again and look at the wide view to correct any skill position mistakes .....Watch the EZ view to correct any box mistakes Still can't move ahead or back quickly because you have to watch the start of the play to see if it is the one you are looking for HUDL with data .....Pull up the video and the info is at the top. Everyone can see it is supposed to be Power Rt .....Watch the wide angle and fix the skills .....Watch the EZ angle and fix the box If you need to jump ahead or go back, you can do it very quickly because you are looking for the blown coverage in the 3rd quarter where they get a TD so you find the clip marked D with a K right after it with a 65 yard gain and there it is. No hunting for anything. If you do what our staff does, then you already have a playlist of the 15-20 clips you want to watch with the kids already cutup before they get there. Then you don't have to search at all. You just watch those clips you already tagged. I like that. Is that 15-20 clip plays list done by the time you bring the kids in Saturday morning?
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Post by cqmiller on Sept 24, 2020 14:04:02 GMT -6
Yes...
As we enter the other stuff, we make sure that we make a list of good/bad plays we have to watch with the kids. We don't watch the whole game. Usually you find out that you had the same issue on plays 12, 14, 26, 28, 29, 56, 67, etc... Just watch one and emphasize that we had issues all night with it and that when they watch the whole game, you will see that this same problem comes up all the time.
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coachod
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Post by coachod on Sept 25, 2020 1:57:17 GMT -6
You have a box coach entering data in Excel or Hudl as the game is going?
You can have a coach use the hudl tag a game feature on the ipad, and if your roster is up to date you can essentially get all the ODK, result, D&D data, etc plus the stats as the game goes on just by using the interface in hudl without actually sitting at a computer and typing.....now on the other had if you had some one using the ipad to tag the game as it is going then you can have someone input the data such as play call, strength, etc to speed things up a bit I suppose.
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Post by planck on Sept 25, 2020 7:01:24 GMT -6
It definitely speeds up tagging your own games, but really my time sink is tagging traded film. A division of labor on that would probably be smart.
Big thing to remember is delegation requires 1) clarity of responsibilities and 2) training people to do the job the way you want it done. Of course, you also have to have some way to audit the data and make sure it's correct...kind of a whole mess.
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Post by coachklee on Oct 1, 2020 10:06:16 GMT -6
You have a box coach entering data in Excel or Hudl as the game is going? You can have a coach use the hudl tag a game feature on the ipad, and if your roster is up to date you can essentially get all the ODK, result, D&D data, etc plus the stats as the game goes on just by using the interface in hudl without actually sitting at a computer and typing.....now on the other had if you had some one using the ipad to tag the game as it is going then you can have someone input the data such as play call, strength, etc to speed things up a bit I suppose. We pay a staff member a few cold brews each week to do just this every Friday night.
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 1, 2020 11:52:27 GMT -6
You have a box coach entering data in Excel or Hudl as the game is going? You can have a coach use the hudl tag a game feature on the ipad, and if your roster is up to date you can essentially get all the ODK, result, D&D data, etc plus the stats as the game goes on just by using the interface in hudl without actually sitting at a computer and typing.....now on the other had if you had some one using the ipad to tag the game as it is going then you can have someone input the data such as play call, strength, etc to speed things up a bit I suppose. Yep... Excel file that we import as soon as the game is over and we have EVERYTHING hudl assist gives you already done in under 5 minutes.
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Post by veerman on Oct 5, 2020 20:13:26 GMT -6
So to work around this at my program where we barely have enough money for HUDL as is, I have built a custom google sheet that has data entered into it during the game by box staff and it automatically pulls game stats, updates season stats, and runs a weekly overview. From there its maybe 30 minutes of work to get my per down efficiencies done and any advance stats I want to pull. Will the call sheet and data already done getting it entered into HUDL doesnt take very long cause I can fly down the list. I'm always iterating this sheet too to try and automate more of the stat scrubbing off of the data entry page. My off season project this coming off season is to build a similar sheet for defensive statistics so that I can have it all done during the game just by box staff doing their job. That's my next step as well... currently we can get all of the ODK, DN, DIST, YL, HASH, PLAYCALL into HUDL within 5 minutes of our game being over. I don't have enough support staff to have another person or 2 doing anything statistical on Game-Night. But my coach in charge of "stats columns" on HUDL can get the RUSHER, PASSER, RECEIVER, TACKLER1, TACKLER 2 filled out in about 30 minutes, which means stats can be done at that point. Not where I want to be yet, but we are taking a team that has been 4-37 over the past 4 years (0-10 twice, 1-9 twice, 2-8 in 2015) and rebuild it. Pretty much nobody in the community is willing to help out currently. We are 2-4 right now, and have 3 of our final 4 games that are winable. If we end up 5-5, I'm sure I'll have people coming out of the woodwork to help. Have any of ya'll use the HUDL Tag for your game stats? We tried this last year but couldn't find someone really to do it. It's basically like your game tacker set up. Just wondering if anyone uses this? Wanna give a shout out to cqmiller though. I sat in on some of his HUDL Zoom meetings and it has really helped us break down teams even more this year. Wish the best for you coach, and hope ya'll end up getting your 5 wins.
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Post by cqmiller on Oct 5, 2020 20:58:05 GMT -6
That's my next step as well... currently we can get all of the ODK, DN, DIST, YL, HASH, PLAYCALL into HUDL within 5 minutes of our game being over. I don't have enough support staff to have another person or 2 doing anything statistical on Game-Night. But my coach in charge of "stats columns" on HUDL can get the RUSHER, PASSER, RECEIVER, TACKLER1, TACKLER 2 filled out in about 30 minutes, which means stats can be done at that point. Not where I want to be yet, but we are taking a team that has been 4-37 over the past 4 years (0-10 twice, 1-9 twice, 2-8 in 2015) and rebuild it. Pretty much nobody in the community is willing to help out currently. We are 2-4 right now, and have 3 of our final 4 games that are winable. If we end up 5-5, I'm sure I'll have people coming out of the woodwork to help. Have any of ya'll use the HUDL Tag for your game stats? We tried this last year but couldn't find someone really to do it. It's basically like your game tacker set up. Just wondering if anyone uses this? Wanna give a shout out to cqmiller though. I sat in on some of his HUDL Zoom meetings and it has really helped us break down teams even more this year. Wish the best for you coach, and hope ya'll end up getting your 5 wins. We turned it over 4 times last week (2 muffed punts and 2 ints) and lost 28-12. 5-5 record is officially out of reach, but if we go 4-6 this year it will still be more wins this year than the 5 years before this one combined. Still have a long way to go, but we are getting better. Trying to teach the kids how to win... they have no clue how to do it, how to sometimes "win-ugly" or sometimes just find a way to make it happen. School and community so used to losing it's like 2nd nature. Trying to find a way to get that mindset erased.
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Post by planck on Oct 6, 2020 7:23:28 GMT -6
Trying to teach the kids how to win... they have no clue how to do it, how to sometimes "win-ugly" or sometimes just find a way to make it happen. School and community so used to losing it's like 2nd nature. Trying to find a way to get that mindset erased. Man that's the hardest nut to crack. We blasted our first two opponents (in large part because of how we use Hudl to scout), and our kids thought the sun shines out of their ass. They don't watch film or look at their errors and try to improve, they're set in the "if we win we played well" mindset, which is poison. I hate the "trust the process" meme but to an extent it's true. Winning and losing are just by products of learning how to prepare, play hard, and iterate to improve.
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Post by airraidallday on Oct 6, 2020 7:45:21 GMT -6
Trying to teach the kids how to win... they have no clue how to do it, how to sometimes "win-ugly" or sometimes just find a way to make it happen. School and community so used to losing it's like 2nd nature. Trying to find a way to get that mindset erased. Coach I feel your pain. I am in this exact situation. It is difficult when the prevailing culture is just lacking desire to make any change. And in my state, the transfer rules just make it a revolving door which means you are constantly young.
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