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Post by wildcat on Jul 15, 2007 20:39:33 GMT -6
Khal - That is actually 2 words...
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Post by tigercoach on Jul 15, 2007 20:39:46 GMT -6
Is that hyphenated? ;D
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Post by khalfie on Jul 15, 2007 21:02:00 GMT -6
Khal - That is actually 2 words... Which one? And I meant that metaphysically?
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Post by easye17 on Jul 15, 2007 21:23:16 GMT -6
Wildcat, I think the last thing you said is a great point. You aren't concerned with him in college, but what comes after?? I agree with the unrealistic expectations that society sometimes puts on a lot of kids. So, what do you do? How do you attempt to get him to understand at even this late stage? I'm not sure I have any answers better than what everyone else has said. I do think putting him down below everyone else and making him earn it would help. I also think putting the microscope on him and his attitude, practice habits, grades, etc. can also help or hurt, depending on his reaction to being under that microscope. Is he a kid who'll challenge you as a coach if you do that? I think it could be a powerful message to your team and to him.
As for the team wanting him to play, I'm not sure it has a role at all. Sure, if he's the stud you say he's certainly going to make the team better. But how does that attitude he brings impact down the road with the current team and those youngsters who are watching? What happens with the next superstar? That's why I wouldn't tolerate it. No one player/coach is more important than the rest.
Off season things can't be factored into playing time (one way or the other) technically in Pa, so you can't bench him. But you can make him earn and if he chooses not to take that opportunity, then so be it.
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Post by wildcat on Jul 15, 2007 23:05:17 GMT -6
Khal - That is actually 2 words... Which one? And I meant that metaphysically? Khal - You are the only guy I know of who can make a compelling argument that you said 1 word when you really said 2...you truly are the Master Baiter! ;D BTW - We went 3-2 at the Richmond-Burton 7 on 7. Two games we lost were by a combined 4 points and we didn't have our 2 best players.
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Post by CVBears on Jul 15, 2007 23:17:10 GMT -6
This kid has had sit-downs with everyone...typically, the "right" things are said in the conversations, but, when the rubber meets the road, he reverts back to his original attitude. Like I said, this kid is NOT a team player in any sense of the word. He doesn't try to hide the fact that the reason he plays sports is because their is something in it for him. With that being said, he is athletic enough to really contribute... The first paragraph shows that you/your staff has done its job, gave plenty of chances and he has shat on those chances like John Goodman the morning after a frat party, pizza and hotdogs. Regardless of whether or not the team is "cool with" him not being in the weight room, making a commitment to the team, etc., etc., what real lesson is being taught by allowing the player in question to still be on the team? If it was me, I would continue to help him outside of the program but he would no longer be a part of the program.
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Post by tothehouse on Jul 16, 2007 7:46:45 GMT -6
Put in a few plays for him, but don't rely on him. Have the back up ready and play him more. Not fair to all the others working hard for him to get away with this. Playmaker or not.
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Post by warrior53 on Jul 16, 2007 12:00:28 GMT -6
I am glad you are in it for the kid! So many of us forgot that is why we got into this in the first place (I hope). I hope it works out for you. You have gone this far with him, you might as well try to make it go. It is never too late for a kid to turn around. We have had plenty of hard cases wake up their senior year and realize what we have been preaching was right all along. I will tell you this there has to be a coach on his side when he gos through all that you are talking about putting him through. Not to disagree with the decisions, but to guide him in the right direction - hopefully his position coach can be that person.
And ajreaper, I hope you are wrong.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2007 16:19:35 GMT -6
Coachd5085, in response to your post on the previous page, no I don't beg him to come out. But, if he is there the first day of practice, I'm not sending him home. He won't start very high on the depth chart, but he may play his way up.
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Post by coachcb on Jul 16, 2007 16:31:26 GMT -6
I'd do exactly what you're doing wilcat; put him at the bottom of the depth chart and make him earn the spot. This may be a good chance for you to teach the kid a lesson in hard work. I'd sit down and explain to him why he was in the position he was in.
If he really wants the spot, he'll just need to put out a little bit of effort and chill out with the attitude. I'd probably make this process tougher for him that it should be too; I wouldn't let him slack off or dish out an bs attitude.
HOWEVER- if the kid gave me any grief or started tossing around an attitude, I'd sit him permanently. It's a two sided coin; yes his athleticism could help you, but his attitude could severely hinder you as well. Like I said in a earlier post, bad attitudes are contagious with some kids; I wouldn't let his catch.
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Post by goldenbear76 on Jul 16, 2007 18:52:27 GMT -6
To me, these kinds of kids have to have something invested into the team in order for them to be productive in it. You have to get the kid to bleed and sweat on the football field. Only then, will his desire to be a "leader" emerge. This doesn't work for all kids..but the ones who think they are "too good" to be in the weight room or running, are simply scared to invest something important to them ..time and sweat. You have to get this kid working with his team or cut the cord.
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kdcoach
Sophomore Member
Posts: 194
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Post by kdcoach on Jul 17, 2007 6:31:45 GMT -6
I had this EXACT conversation last night in the weight room with my stud Fullback. It was the first time that I had seen him since the kids got out of school. It took a couple phone calls to his parents (who were also not seeing very much of him, and thought he was coming to the weight room, he was basically living with his girlfriend and her family) I explained to him the position that he was putting me in that the kid that backs him up has been killing himself to get better and make the team better. I also told him that he was the better football player at this point in time, however if he didn't make the available 12 weight rooms that we had left he would be watching football with me on the sideline or up in the stands if he chose to quit. Either one was ok with me, after all if he doesn't care than I can't want it more for him than he does. Basically it comes down to rewarding the kids that are on board with our philosophies not penalizing those that aren't. By the way, I don't care how many games he can help you win especially if he has a bad attitude and is disrespectful on top of it. That's an easy one for me.
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Post by utchuckd on Jul 17, 2007 7:05:28 GMT -6
Great post.
Great thread. Don't have much to add other than I also know how hard it can be weighing the good of the program vs. helping a kid that you don't want to give up on.
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Post by coachjimmer on Jul 17, 2007 10:08:45 GMT -6
I don't see any post that has to do with CHARACTER...
Wildcat - If I were you, I'd kick him off the team. I don't have time to be his babysitter. A student-athlete with the overall GPA of less than 2.0 will not play for me. No exception.
I am not a head coach and I have never been one. However, if I am his HC and he wants to play football with us, he has to earn his place on the team the hard way AND improve his overall GPA. As a senior, he must exhibit character, leadership, trustworthiness, respect, responsibility, fairness, caring and citizenship. He also has to be a good role model for younger players.
I don't care what his teammates want, I care what the best interest of the football program is.
If I were you, I'd encourage him to go into U.S. military basic training camp so he can have his rear end kicked hard for 9 to 12 weeks. He needs to be disciplined one way or another.
Jimmer
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Post by airman on Jul 17, 2007 13:46:45 GMT -6
I would trade him, see if I could get a 5th round pick in next years prep draft. heck it worked for the raiders with randy moss. kid sounds like rand moss. does he have a affro to go with the attitiude?
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Post by coachd5085 on Jul 18, 2007 8:28:05 GMT -6
I keep reading that he should be on the "bottom" of the depth chart...yet in the first post it was made quite clear that he is vastly superior to the rest of the players. Is this teaching him anythng? Won't he "win" back his spot in a matter of moments? I think H.S kids are smart enough to see through this type of action.
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