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Post by coacheichler on May 7, 2020 11:12:26 GMT -6
Great ideas coach. Thanks for the feedback One "red flag" in your original post is the phrase "you are after a kid". While that can mean several things, I think the many here would support the statement "don't go chasing after kids". Sure invite them to play but after that, continued "recruiting" is more often than not going to fruitless. If a kid has to be pursued, he probably is not that into it, and there is a good chance that he folds up when things get tough. Also, in this specific situation, how do you know what the parents are saying? Did they tell you, or did he? Again, I would not be surprised if the majority of time, when parents "say" their kids can't play, they actually have no idea their kids want to play. That message is coming just from the kid. Great questions and valid points. I don't know what situations or kids you work with, so I will not assume. I can only speak for myself... I am in a small school, with very low numbers and a declining enrollment. Our football program's future is bleak unless we get kids out to play. I am very much "after" kids to get on the field. Not going to back down from that statement. Now, if a kid has told me no after a few attempts and they simply will not do it, I move on. Also, I have been in situations where I have worked with kids who have no future dreams, goals, or aspirations and I worked hard to get them into football and it made a difference in their life. Will some of these kids fold up when it gets tough? Absolutely. I can live with that, as long as I maintain strong relationships off the field no matter what, which is what it always comes down to. I haven't had a relationship with a kid deteriorate because I pushed them to do something they might have been hesitant to do. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but they know I still care about them as people. RE: parents and what they are saying, I spoke to parents directly. Mom is against it, dad is for it, kid wants to play, and both parents knows he wants to play. Not an uncommon situation for us. |
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Post by CS on May 7, 2020 13:02:43 GMT -6
One "red flag" in your original post is the phrase "you are after a kid". While that can mean several things, I think the many here would support the statement "don't go chasing after kids". Sure invite them to play but after that, continued "recruiting" is more often than not going to fruitless. If a kid has to be pursued, he probably is not that into it, and there is a good chance that he folds up when things get tough. Also, in this specific situation, how do you know what the parents are saying? Did they tell you, or did he? Again, I would not be surprised if the majority of time, when parents "say" their kids can't play, they actually have no idea their kids want to play. That message is coming just from the kid. Great questions and valid points. I don't know what situations or kids you work with, so I will not assume. I can only speak for myself... I am in a small school, with very low numbers and a declining enrollment. Our football program's future is bleak unless we get kids out to play. I am very much "after" kids to get on the field. Not going to back down from that statement. Now, if a kid has told me no after a few attempts and they simply will not do it, I move on. Also, I have been in situations where I have worked with kids who have no future dreams, goals, or aspirations and I worked hard to get them into football and it made a difference in their life. Will some of these kids fold up when it gets tough? Absolutely. I can live with that, as long as I maintain strong relationships off the field no matter what, which is what it always comes down to. I haven't had a relationship with a kid deteriorate because I pushed them to do something they might have been hesitant to do. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but they know I still care about them as people. RE: parents and what they are saying, I spoke to parents directly. Mom is against it, dad is for it, kid wants to play, and both parents knows he wants to play. Not an uncommon situation for us. I learned a while back that its better to put the pressure on the kids who are on the team to get kids out that "need" to play. The are much better recruiters and retainers than any coach will ever be. That has nothing to do with you talking to the parents but the kids also know who will never get to play as well so they won't bother |
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Post by coachd5085 on May 7, 2020 13:31:48 GMT -6
One "red flag" in your original post is the phrase "you are after a kid". While that can mean several things, I think the many here would support the statement "don't go chasing after kids". Sure invite them to play but after that, continued "recruiting" is more often than not going to fruitless. If a kid has to be pursued, he probably is not that into it, and there is a good chance that he folds up when things get tough. Also, in this specific situation, how do you know what the parents are saying? Did they tell you, or did he? Again, I would not be surprised if the majority of time, when parents "say" their kids can't play, they actually have no idea their kids want to play. That message is coming just from the kid. Great questions and valid points. I don't know what situations or kids you work with, so I will not assume. I can only speak for myself... I am in a small school, with very low numbers and a declining enrollment. Our football program's future is bleak unless we get kids out to play. I am very much "after" kids to get on the field. Not going to back down from that statement. Now, if a kid has told me no after a few attempts and they simply will not do it, I move on. Also, I have been in situations where I have worked with kids who have no future dreams, goals, or aspirations and I worked hard to get them into football and it made a difference in their life. Will some of these kids fold up when it gets tough? Absolutely. I can live with that, as long as I maintain strong relationships off the field no matter what, which is what it always comes down to. I haven't had a relationship with a kid deteriorate because I pushed them to do something they might have been hesitant to do. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't, but they know I still care about them as people. RE: parents and what they are saying, I spoke to parents directly. Mom is against it, dad is for it, kid wants to play, and both parents knows he wants to play. Not an uncommon situation for us. Don't get wrong, I think recruiting the halls is important, even if it is passive and just making sure your football environment is on that people want to be a part of. I was referring more to the "Hey, Johnny ..have you ever thought about playing football?" "Eh coach..I don't know....." and then constantly trying to convince the kid. That tends to not turn out well. |
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Post by coachcb on May 7, 2020 13:51:42 GMT -6
You are after a kid who you think would benefit from playing football for your high school team, and they would probably be a pretty good player. Mom/Dad says they won't let their kid play because of concussions and the violent nature of the game. How do you respond to that? I'm with those who'd thank the parents for their time and walk away. Why waste your time? Even if you do change their mind there's no way in hell the kid makes it through the season without getting a concussion.
Agreed. At the end of the day, discussing the safety of the game with anyone is akin to talking religion/politics. You can make your case but you're not going to change anyone's mind. And, as has been pointed out, you can point out all of the changes made in the game but they still don't ensure safety. Those changes do bring down the number of concussions but it's a violent, contact sport; there is the potential for injury.
A kid was holding a hand shield for a 50%, OL walk through on a Thursday night. He tripped over his feet, hit the back of his head on the ground and was out for a week.
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Post by jlenwood on May 7, 2020 16:34:05 GMT -6
I used to think it was a noble act to go after those kids and get them to play. But as my career progressed and now that I am out, I can look back and say those kids never panned out, and there was a reason they weren't playing, and most of that was they didn't dig the contact and certainly were not into the hard work to be good at something.
I say if you have built a program, even if it is 20 kids, and others around you can see that you are influencing the players positively, you are semi competitive, and the kids you have are all in, you wont have to work as hard to "go after" kids. But, in the end maybe you are waging a losing battle as football declines, who knows.
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Post by bluboy on May 7, 2020 19:50:51 GMT -6
"...those kids never panned out, and there was a reason they weren't playing, and most of that was they didn't dig the contact and certainly were not into the hard work to be good at something." They ended up being nothing but problems; problems that often took time away from coaching the ones who wanted to be there. So now, if I talk to a kid about playing football, and he hems and haws about it; I move on.
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Post by tigerpride on May 9, 2020 10:09:05 GMT -6
Id say some of these kids do pan out. Had a senior come out last year and he was a basketball kid. Parents were very worried abiut injuries.
I told him that every time he was on the basketball court, his 6'4 frames was competing against kids his size or bigger. And on the football field, he would be flanked outside in space against a bunch of 5'10 corners.
I also talked about the friendships and memories and friday night lights.... well he played, caught 40 balls and is gonna play in college now.
And lets not forget 50 percent of kids are vaping, getting high drinking etc. Football is gonna be a fulltime job and keep them off the streets.
Some kids will not pan out and it does wear u out but kids are not lining up to play football at my school. I will recruit as many as possible in the off season.
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Post by coachd5085 on May 9, 2020 11:25:52 GMT -6
Id say some of these kids do pan out. Had a senior come out last year and he was a basketball kid. Parents were very worried abiut injuries. I told him that every time he was on the basketball court, his 6'4 frames was competing against kids his size or bigger. And on the football field, he would be flanked outside in space against a bunch of 5'10 corners. I also talked about the friendships and memories and friday night lights.... well he played, caught 40 balls and is gonna play in college now. And lets not forget 50 percent of kids are vaping, getting high drinking etc. Football is gonna be a fulltime job and keep them off the streets. Some kids will not pan out and it does wear u out but kids are not lining up to play football at my school. I will recruit as many as possible in the off season. I think the difference may be you said "had a senior come out". Did this senior come out on his own, or did you basically invite, try to talk him into it etc. I think the conventional wisdom is that the vast majority of kids you have to "convince" (or in some cases just wear down) to play tend to not work out as much. |
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Post by coachcb on May 13, 2020 11:24:54 GMT -6
IMO, there's a difference between talking to parents about "injuries" versus talking specifically about concussions. I can point to all kinds of studies that show that basketball results in more reported injuries than football. I can also point out how specializing results in more injuries. However, I can't defend football and concussions because concussions happen in football (and soccer).
I've been an AD and a football coach in basketball-crazy communities and the only thing I've been able to point out is the severity of concussions in basketball. Kids pick up more of them in football but they tend to get more serious concussions in basketball. They rebound their heads off of the floor or the wall and then they're done for a month or the season. We rarely see that in football, with the safety precautions they take.
But, again, the concussion "talk" is taboo in my book these days. There's no much dissuading to be done in that area.
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Post by blb on May 13, 2020 11:32:55 GMT -6
IMO, there's a difference between talking to parents about "injuries" versus talking specifically about concussions. I can point to all kinds of studies that show that basketball results in more reported injuries than football. I can also point out how specializing results in more injuries. However, I can't defend football and concussions because concussions happen in football (and soccer). I've been an AD and a football coach in basketball-crazy communities and the only thing I've been able to point out is the severity of concussions in basketball. Kids pick up more of them in football but they tend to get more serious concussions in basketball. They rebound their heads off of the floor or the wall and then they're done for a month or the season. We rarely see that in football, with the safety precautions they take. But, again, the concussion "talk" is taboo in my book these days. There's no much dissuading to be done in that area. At my last job had a football player get a concussion in basketball by banging heads with an opponent. It was so severe he missed last two months of the season. Guess which sport he played the next school year, and which one he didn't. |
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Post by coachcb on May 13, 2020 11:42:01 GMT -6
IMO, there's a difference between talking to parents about "injuries" versus talking specifically about concussions. I can point to all kinds of studies that show that basketball results in more reported injuries than football. I can also point out how specializing results in more injuries. However, I can't defend football and concussions because concussions happen in football (and soccer). I've been an AD and a football coach in basketball-crazy communities and the only thing I've been able to point out is the severity of concussions in basketball. Kids pick up more of them in football but they tend to get more serious concussions in basketball. They rebound their heads off of the floor or the wall and then they're done for a month or the season. We rarely see that in football, with the safety precautions they take. But, again, the concussion "talk" is taboo in my book these days. There's no much dissuading to be done in that area. At my last job had a football player get a concussion in basketball by banging heads with an opponent. It was so severe he missed last two months of the season. Guess which sport he played the next school year, and which one he didn't.
We had a kid that was an excellent RB/DB but he quit during his freshman year because he picked up a concussion. He and his parents pulled him out because they were spooked, which I understood. He was also a pretty good basketball player but he rebounded his head off of the floor his sophomore year and was done for that season. He missed two weeks worth of school because he couldn't be in brightly lit rooms.
You guessed it, he played two more seasons of basketball and never came out for football again.
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Post by fkaboneyard on May 18, 2020 10:07:49 GMT -6
In all the years I coached I was able to convince one kid's parents who were afraid of concussions to allow their kid to play. And I went at them pretty hard because the kid was an absolute freak. He got "rocked" during pregame of a playoff game, parents came out of the stands and took him to the hospital. The doctors told them he was not concussed - and honestly, I've never heard of a doctor saying a kid is not concussed but it happened in this case. "Out of an abundance of caution" the parents held him out of the next game which we lost and the season was over. The following week the kid went to Disneyland, was in line for a ride, sitting on a railing and fell over backwards. He hit his head and had a legitimate concussion. Later in the year during track season he fell down the stairs leading to the track and hit his head getting another concussion. His dad called me at the beginning of spring ball and said he would not be playing football because it's too dangerous. He was a nice kid but I was glad to be rid of the headache.
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Post by fantom on May 18, 2020 10:20:32 GMT -6
In all the years I coached I was able to convince one kid's parents who were afraid of concussions to allow their kid to play. And I went at them pretty hard because the kid was an absolute freak. He got "rocked" during pregame of a playoff game, parents came out of the stands and took him to the hospital. The doctors told them he was not concussed - and honestly, I've never heard of a doctor saying a kid is not concussed but it happened in this case. "Out of an abundance of caution" the parents held him out of the next game which we lost and the season was over. The following week the kid went to Disneyland, was in line for a ride, sitting on a railing and fell over backwards. He hit his head and had a legitimate concussion. Later in the year during track season he fell down the stairs leading to the track and hit his head getting another concussion. His dad called me at the beginning of spring ball and said he would not be playing football because it's too dangerous. He was a nice kid but I was glad to be rid of the headache. "Headache"? Heh heh heh, I see what you did there. |
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Post by dubber on May 24, 2020 14:01:55 GMT -6
Facts don’t change opinions, but relationships can.
And I never believe a kid who says “I would but my parents.....”
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Post by vanden48 on May 24, 2020 21:03:40 GMT -6
I guess nobody had offered money???
We did an entire concussion presentation and had Medical experts come in.
We also went to a practice model were we don't tackle people in practice. We tackle other things, just not people. It reduced our injuries and managed to get 4 of the baseball players out from the State Championship Baseball team.
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Post by irishdog on May 24, 2020 22:34:58 GMT -6
I ask once. If the kid tells me "my mom won't let me play." I ask does that mean YOU don't want to play, or do you hope your mom won't let you play if I ask. Typically his initial answer tells me HE doesn't want to play. If the kid tells me "I want to play, but my parents are afraid to let me play" I ask the kid if he would like for me to talk to his parents. If the kid says "no, it won't matter" that answer tells me HE doesn't want to play. If the kid says "Really? You want me to play? Can I have them call you coach?" it tells me he truly wants to play and needs my support with his parents.
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lmorris
Sophomore Member
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Post by lmorris on May 27, 2020 15:47:51 GMT -6
lolol, My sister in law got married again this weekend. Her new husband has two sons, one will be a JR. hasnt played football since Peewee's. Of course like every strapping young man, I ask what position do you play in football.
His response, my dad doesn't want me to play....I look at her new husband and ask, "dad, what concerns do you have with him playing football" Dad replied "none really I didn't think he wanted to play."
Kid in pure shock, "youre serious? I can play?"
Dad, "sure, why not"
Kid, "so I can call the coach and get on the team?"
Dad, "I'll call him for you"
Easiest talk I've ever had. Just wish the kid went to my school.
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