|
Post by mountainman on Apr 15, 2020 10:37:10 GMT -6
I keep getting emails from these guys. Has anyone used this? www.atavus.com/Just curious.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Apr 19, 2020 21:24:56 GMT -6
It looks like the thing they’re really selling is expert film analysis focused on tackling and the grading of tackling, inasmuch as you want to accept their expertise at face values. I’m not sure the margins are that small for your team to really need it, but I suspect they’re trying to get paid at both ends because the real value here is what you can find out when you’ve got a lot of tackling data and you can see bigger trends, and then you sell THAT to the same customers as the “gold package.” It’s like a subset of what PFF’s business model is.
|
|
|
Post by 54695469 on Apr 21, 2020 0:12:19 GMT -6
Just another group looking for someone to throw money their way... This time next year, they will be analyzing the "culture of your program." For a fee. You're a coach. Analyze your teams tackling! Don't pay some knuckleheads to do that!
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Apr 21, 2020 7:31:58 GMT -6
So what do you do with the data after you get it from them....
|
|
|
Post by mholst40 on Apr 21, 2020 8:12:27 GMT -6
So what do you do with the data after you get it from them.... This is the key for all analytics. Capturing and analyzing data is one thing. Coming up with an action plan is another. I sat through a Tacklytics presentation and it's pretty awesome because they will break down drills to do weekly by position based on the results of your tackling in a game. With that said, you're essentially paying a lot of money to someone for something you can do. It's akin to Hudl Assist on steroids. Pretty soon, other coaches will be grading your film too.
|
|
|
Post by 54695469 on Apr 21, 2020 9:45:08 GMT -6
Any staff that spends money on something like this that was allotted by the school district should be fired for not doing their jobs! Sure, you'll say that you spent money because your doing everything possible to give your program a winning edge... I say that if you spend ISD money to get someone else to do your job is lazy and tantamount to stealing. The school district should just how a staff that will analyze their own tackling!!!
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Apr 21, 2020 10:17:59 GMT -6
So what do you do with the data after you get it from them.... Especially since, for a high percentage of missed tackles, the reason is "Bad football player".
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Apr 21, 2020 11:57:44 GMT -6
So what do you do with the data after you get it from them.... This is the key for all analytics. Capturing and analyzing data is one thing. Coming up with an action plan is another. I sat through a Tacklytics presentation and it's pretty awesome because they will break down drills to do weekly by position based on the results of your tackling in a game. With that said, you're essentially paying a lot of money to someone for something you can do. It's akin to Hudl Assist on steroids. Pretty soon, other coaches will be grading your film too. Don't we already have somethign similar? People subscribe to offensive "systems" where they pay to collaborate and have others review their film? Help with game planning? Help with Install?
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Apr 21, 2020 12:03:48 GMT -6
This is the key for all analytics. Capturing and analyzing data is one thing. Coming up with an action plan is another. I sat through a Tacklytics presentation and it's pretty awesome because they will break down drills to do weekly by position based on the results of your tackling in a game. With that said, you're essentially paying a lot of money to someone for something you can do. It's akin to Hudl Assist on steroids. Pretty soon, other coaches will be grading your film too. Don't we already have somethign similar? People subscribe to offensive "systems" where they pay to collaborate and have others review their film? Help with game planning? Help with Install? Hudl Assist fills a real need, especially for a smaller staff with a lot of non-faculty coaches. This tackling thing looks like an off-season project that you could do at your own pace.
|
|
|
Post by coachluey2 on Apr 21, 2020 15:06:24 GMT -6
Don't we already have somethign similar? People subscribe to offensive "systems" where they pay to collaborate and have others review their film? Help with game planning? Help with Install? Hudl Assist fills a real need, especially for a smaller staff with a lot of non-faculty coaches. This tackling thing looks like an off-season project that you could do at your own pace. I'm with this guy. Did we tackle him? Ok great. No? Why not? we can do that in the office. The safety part can also be done in the office as any coach on staff should at a bare minimum be able to show a safe tackling drill during practice.
|
|
|
Post by wingtol on Apr 22, 2020 7:12:32 GMT -6
So what do you do with the data after you get it from them.... Especially since, for a high percentage of missed tackles, the reason is "Bad football player". At least you would have data to back up benching Johnny when mom calls the AD and Super...
|
|
|
Post by mholst40 on Apr 22, 2020 7:41:31 GMT -6
Hudl Assist fills a real need, especially for a smaller staff with a lot of non-faculty coaches. This tackling thing looks like an off-season project that you could do at your own pace. I'm with this guy. Did we tackle him? Ok great. No? Why not? we can do that in the office. The safety part can also be done in the office as any coach on staff should at a bare minimum be able to show a safe tackling drill during practice. From what I've seen, the analytics are a little bit more involved than that. You get tackling stats/data and recommended drills based on your performance. You can definitely do that yourself. You can also tag data yourself. No one "needs" this or Hudl Assist. None of the data Atavus provides helps unless you actually do something with it. Some of it might be overkill for some programs depending on situation, plus it's expensive. It's more than the cost of a stipend for most coaching staffs. I like the Atavus tackling stuff, but wouldn't pay for this service. We'd do it in house and be much simpler in how we break down tackling. But, the way they break down tackling is much better than most people have done in the past.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Apr 22, 2020 8:18:34 GMT -6
Don't we already have somethign similar? People subscribe to offensive "systems" where they pay to collaborate and have others review their film? Help with game planning? Help with Install? Hudl Assist fills a real need, especially for a smaller staff with a lot of non-faculty coaches. This tackling thing looks like an off-season project that you could do at your own pace. I don't know. I preface this saying I have never used Hudl asst, but from reading about it here, I think it is taking away learning opps for coaches. In my post I was referring more to the "N-zone" or "TFS" type of systems, or maybe to some degree the R4 gameplanning. I understand it is a matter of perspective, but some of these things seem like staff is outsourcing coaching duties. This Altavus tackling thing DEFINITELY seems like that is the case. If I were an admin or board member, I could easily see myself asking the coachign staff "If we are purchasing this, what do we need YOU for? Someone call Karen from HR and tell her to grab a clipboard and a whistle"
|
|
|
Post by fantom on Apr 22, 2020 9:36:22 GMT -6
Hudl Assist fills a real need, especially for a smaller staff with a lot of non-faculty coaches. This tackling thing looks like an off-season project that you could do at your own pace. I don't know. I preface this saying I have never used Hudl asst, but from reading about it here, I think it is taking away learning opps for coaches. Depends on the size and makeup of your staff.
|
|
|
Post by mountainman on Apr 23, 2020 9:13:44 GMT -6
Any staff that spends money on something like this that was allotted by the school district should be fired for not doing their jobs! Sure, you'll say that you spent money because your doing everything possible to give your program a winning edge... I say that if you spend ISD money to get someone else to do your job is lazy and tantamount to stealing. The school district should just how a staff that will analyze their own tackling!!! Never said I was going to use it. I had just received numerous sales pitch emails and was curious if anyone had actually done this.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Clement on Apr 23, 2020 9:21:12 GMT -6
Watch out, we got a badass over here!
|
|
|
Post by 44dlcoach on Apr 23, 2020 9:52:16 GMT -6
There's a slippery slope argument to be made here. I agree that generally speaking analyzing why you aren't tackling well and finding ways to fix it is the job of the staff.
But like coachd5085 pointed out, what about TFS, or R4, or the air raid certification? What about the program paying for coaches to go to clinics? What about the program paying for installation books or DVDs? One could make the same logical argument that everything included in those materials should also be the responsibility of the staff to figure out on their own.
So my take is that I'm not going to pay for another company to analyze my film and give me drills, but I'm also not going to call for the job of somebody that does.
|
|
|
Post by CoachP on Apr 24, 2020 2:21:51 GMT -6
For anyone interested in "Tackleytics" I'd highly recommend the breakdown Coach DiG done in the Five Fights series on USA Football. From that analysis you can see 1) where you need the most work and 2) what "KPIs" you are most deficient in.
The five videos are also available on the Football-Summit page.
|
|
|
Post by mvahrens on Apr 30, 2020 16:19:47 GMT -6
I actually work for Atavus and am a Head Coach / DC. I took the job because I have used Atavus for a few years as a HC and really like the service. When Pete Carroll created those Hawk Tackle videos, he worked with the Atavus people to create the techniques (sidenote: the "Hawk Roll" or Roll Tackle is not endorsed by Atavus; a Roll might happen but is not a technique to be practiced)
Here's a quick overview of Atavus because there are a few layers to it...
First - they teach a shoulder-led tackling system and there are online resources to get your whole staff trained. A bunch of drills, education, practice progression templates, etc. One of the main benefits is getting your whole staff trained in the same tackling system and speaking the same language. Some programs have this already down, but some don't.
Second - They do certification for coaches. All HS coaches in Texas are required to get certified through Atavus. Plenty of other states use it as well. Similar to USA Heads-Up Football, but it is a much better training program.
Third - Practice Planning and Review: For coaching staff's that work with Atavus, they work with the coaches and create for them a progression for planning Spring Ball or Fall Camp. The staff's send in video of their practice film drills and give feedback.
Fourth - In-Season: On saturday mornings, teams send in their film from the Friday game, and the Atavus staff breaks down every tackle and creates a report for problem areas, what needs to be improved, and a practice plan for drills for the next week; along with 10 to 15 cut ups from the game to show the players.
It not so much about hiring a genius company that has learned the secret to tackling... it's more like adding a staff member to soley focus on tackling, with a lot of resources and expertise in analyzing tackling.
On that note, let me know if you're interested in learning more! I would be happy to walk you or your staff through a presentation on a video call. Message me if interested.
Or let me know if you have any other questions.
|
|
|
Post by mvahrens on Apr 30, 2020 16:25:56 GMT -6
Hudl Assist fills a real need, especially for a smaller staff with a lot of non-faculty coaches. This tackling thing looks like an off-season project that you could do at your own pace. I'm with this guy. Did we tackle him? Ok great. No? Why not? we can do that in the office. The safety part can also be done in the office as any coach on staff should at a bare minimum be able to show a safe tackling drill during practice. But, do you do it in the office? Do you sit with your staff and breakdown every single tackle? Not only if they made or missed it, but why did they miss it? and is it a trend for the team that you can all work on? And if it is, what are the best drills to work on this? Most coaching staff's review Friday night film, maybe track made or missed tackles; but they are eager to move onto the next opponent.
|
|
|
Post by silkyice on Apr 30, 2020 16:52:32 GMT -6
This is not a slam on this service. In fact, it sounds cool. Impressive even.
Doesn’t everyone watch the previous game film with your team? Wouldn’t you address all this during film review?
Also, I have said this elsewhere on this site, “tackling” is actually the least important part of tackling. Of course technique needs to be taught for safety reasons and to help you tackle better. But, run fits, gap integrity, block destruction, leverage, strength/speed training, are all more important to be a great tackling team than the actual skill of “tackling”.
|
|
|
Post by coachluey2 on Apr 30, 2020 19:45:24 GMT -6
I'm with this guy. Did we tackle him? Ok great. No? Why not? we can do that in the office. The safety part can also be done in the office as any coach on staff should at a bare minimum be able to show a safe tackling drill during practice. But, do you do it in the office? Do you sit with your staff and breakdown every single tackle? Not only if they made or missed it, but why did they miss it? and is it a trend for the team that you can all work on? And if it is, what are the best drills to work on this? Most coaching staff's review Friday night film, maybe track made or missed tackles; but they are eager to move onto the next opponent. definitely not that in depth but that is also something I wouldn't be willing to pay for.
|
|
|
Post by mvahrens on May 2, 2020 11:28:37 GMT -6
This is not a slam on this service. In fact, it sounds cool. Impressive even. Doesn’t everyone watch the previous game film with your team? Wouldn’t you address all this during film review? Also, I have said this elsewhere on this site, “tackling” is actually the least important part of tackling. Of course technique needs to be taught for safety reasons and to help you tackle better. But, run fits, gap integrity, block destruction, leverage, strength/speed training, are all more important to be a great tackling team than the actual skill of “tackling”. Totally agree... Closing Space, Leverage, etc are all part of it (and obviously understanding the scheme and how you fit). One of the most helpful pieces for me has been emphasizing the technique right before contact. Using a proper power step, etc to maximize power and control. I really like their drills they have to teach it.
|
|
|
Post by mvahrens on May 2, 2020 11:30:29 GMT -6
But, do you do it in the office? Do you sit with your staff and breakdown every single tackle? Not only if they made or missed it, but why did they miss it? and is it a trend for the team that you can all work on? And if it is, what are the best drills to work on this? Most coaching staff's review Friday night film, maybe track made or missed tackles; but they are eager to move onto the next opponent. definitely not that in depth but that is also something I wouldn't be willing to pay for. I totally hear you... every program is different. In my eyes, it ends up being another member of the staff. And when you compare what they do over a weekend/off-season, compared to other staff members that you may be paying... it becomes worth it at times.
|
|