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Post by tog on Oct 7, 2005 8:51:53 GMT -6
do any of you guys think today's kids have way more issues with just seeing things in space and being able to pick things out? OL, wr's, db's, lbr's, anyone on the field basically, just seem to have no clue how to adjust on the run and see how another guy might actually try! how dare they
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Post by jackedup on Oct 7, 2005 9:01:08 GMT -6
I agree with you on that. I find that my guys are really smart kids but not necessarily smart football players. They just don't look at the whole picture and see what might develop. No matter how many times I tell my corner to think about the wr's alignment and what possible routes they could run with each alignment, he give up the slant when the wr is 10-15 yds wide. It kills me!! But he's a kid who probably has a higher IQ that me.
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Post by thisguy on Oct 7, 2005 9:35:13 GMT -6
I guess you can't coach instincts.
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Post by brophy on Oct 7, 2005 9:41:13 GMT -6
Kids don't seem to have great "football instincts" these days - but I don't know if I could say for certain that kids long ago had any that were that good, either. It may be attributed to the game evolving so much more and getting away from some of the fundamentals that make it a sport.
Kid today, I have to say, have GREAT pattern recognition skills, though. Might be from playing video games so much, but if you can show them something that is particular (certain play ran out of certain formation) they will pick up on it - getting them to tackle or pick up a receiver is another thing.
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smd
Sophomore Member
Posts: 211
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Post by smd on Oct 7, 2005 9:44:15 GMT -6
"spatial awareness" ... hell, our kids can't play dead much less play in the open field.
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Post by coachjd on Oct 7, 2005 12:14:17 GMT -6
kids don't develop spacial awareness playing PS2! 20 years ago kids were out in the back yard playing real football with a real ball and running, hitting, throwing, catching!! Not a joy stick.
JD
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Post by tog on Oct 7, 2005 13:29:55 GMT -6
i was playing atari jd
but only for a little while
i would rather have gone out and knocked the crap out of someone
or had rock fights or something
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Post by coachjd on Oct 7, 2005 14:49:41 GMT -6
I hated playing in the house!! I would play anything just to stay outside and run wild!! Now parents can't get their kids to go outside.
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Post by PowerDown on Oct 11, 2005 9:55:36 GMT -6
There is a time for the XBOX and PS2 , Friday or Saturday night after dark and before a reasonable bed time, other than that kids should be outside playing. I saw a show on NFL network about EA sports and its madden and Ncaa football games. it was really interesting about the technology and the knowledge that they put into those games. They have people analyzing film and making the play books for each team. So from that aspect of it,it would be good if you are running similiar offenses or fefenses to see the x's and o's of it. Soon it might be in every colleges off season work outs , 11 players in a room playing their each individual position against different looks. But the reality of it is, you can't learn the physical aspect of the game using a controller. I think what a lot of kids lack today is the ability to overcome mismatches, tackling a player bigger than you, playing the angles for a player faster than you.
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Post by brophy on Oct 12, 2005 6:55:51 GMT -6
First of all....
*size has changed tremendously. In the last twenty years, the average size would've been 155lbs....now players that size are "small" - you RARELY had a kid 6'3" or taller. That 280lbs kid couldn't get off the bench - now he's making every play on the field. God bless BFS and training ATHLETES smart. No question kids are bigger and stronger - Thank GOD!
*Offenses / defenses HAVE become more complex - but assignment football and PLAYING football are not what we're really talking about.
*Video games are a great help to kids. I think kids CAN learn a lot from video games. They are nothing but simulations of the real thing and pattern recognition and the rules are some of the things they can pick up from this.
*RULES are not in question (at least for me) - we are talking 'spatial awareness', seeing how a play develops. I think the kids today are really smart kids but not necessarily smart football players. They just don't look at the whole picture and see what might develop. No matter how many times a coach can tell his corner to think about the wr's alignment and what possible routes they could run with each alignment, he gives up the slant when the wr is 10-15 yds wide. I guess what I'm referring to has to do with a quality and intensity of football played. I've seen players muff punts (without knowing it's live), leave bad snaps in the endzone (thinking it's a touchback), not chase lateral balls thrown behind the line of scrimmage (thinking it's a pass), not being able to take down bigger ball carriers (how to tackle), taking proper angles in pursuit, how to run the football (cutting back a run INTO tacklers), trying to go for "yard" (and end up in negative yardage) instead of just picking up 3 yards or moving the chains.
I don't mean to sound like a grumpy-guss, or hater, or whatever. I say this out of frustration because the Friday night product could be SO MUCH BETTER...than it currently is. It's not a coaching problem or one class problem, it's a global issue in how the SPORT is progressing. The NFL is built for offense, for showmanship,right or wrong, but the GAME is a GAME. If you talk to HS officials around your state, most of them have a deep respect for the game and how it has been passed from generation to generation. How the kids become part of a Fraternity of a players brotherhood. It's not just about STATS. That's were this topic leads itself - it's about an overall sterilization of the GAME / SPORT. I don't know if the generations today are getting the big picture of how football is about 11 guys working together for possession of the football and dominating an opponent through team work, all on the same page, because they UNDERSTAND football. I don't believe MOST players could line up all 11 players on a defense / offense in a given play. It's THAT understanding that we're talking about.
okay - the easiest way to summarize (if you don't feel like reading above)...
Video Game Generation: What I'm referring to here is...let's say a kid plays MLB on a video game defense. What he typically is doing is RUNNING ALL OVER THE FIELD chasing the quarterback / ball carrier, lining up God knows where. This does not lend itself to assignment football and creates a distorted perception of how football is actually played. Same thing on offense, a kid may think that all he has to do is keep running around in the backfield and eventually he'll out flank the defense when he gets the ball.
The other thing is in the sensationalization of football individualism, maaaaybe some of those other site do this, I can't say.....but (those "All Star Prep" sites / rivals.com / etc) we glamorize individuals and if they aren't being recruited to a D1 school, then they aren't anything, not any good. Every kid now thinks he's DI material, he's going pro. No matter how much you stress the "right now", kids today think that the DI mentality is what it's ALL about....that football is a big audition for "American Idol" show where they get a fat contract and life now becomes good. NONE of the athletes that went DI got there by NOT dominating their conference or having some freakish body type / speed.
Some of the greatest High School football players will NOT go DI or be pro prospects - relish those kids, for what they experience and the impact they make on the youth football / generations to come. Football is a great sport, but a selfish sport - one that can take everything you have and suck the life out of you and leave you with nothing while you are replaced and time marches on. Football is not a 'means to an end' - PLAYING football doesn't last for long, it's what you do while you play football (it's a privilege). Hard work is the bottom line of football, moreso than any other sport - it develops character and traits that make champions in LIFE - to seize the moment every day / always striving for improvement.
oh, well....PLAY BALL!
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Post by brophy on Oct 12, 2005 6:59:52 GMT -6
I will say this....I got a tape (converted to DVD) and showed the kids our school's 1976 State championship season / game before a practice (just popped it in, didn't say anything, and let it play on the big screen before practice).....they sat in awe with their jaws gaping RESPECTING the game being played.
**Of course watching a HS Roger Craig run would do it for me, too.
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Post by brophy on Oct 13, 2005 10:17:58 GMT -6
so....HOW do you T-E-A-C-H football to these kind of new breed athletes?
They are missing 'something' - how do we, as coaches, best fill that void?
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Post by tog on Oct 13, 2005 11:14:03 GMT -6
KISS
offseason with a lot of movement and going to targets
i think?
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Post by brophy on Oct 14, 2005 5:44:49 GMT -6
I'm at a LOSS.
We lost another one last night (both Offense &Defense were equally brutal).... For the last two weeks, we have done nothing in practice but REVIEW REVIEW REVIEW Alignment (no new calls). We have done more indy time, more group time, more team time, watched film, did chalk talk on the board, praised, encouraged, etc.....
I have RUN OUT OF IDEAS on how to get our players lined up correctly.
The beginning of the season (first 3 games) they had no problem lining up in the exact same calls. We have not had any contrary information thrown at them. No new formations to defend. We continue to line up incorrectly and miss tackle after tackle (another thing we work on DAILY is form tackling, open field tackling, etc).
I have NO clue how to turn these guys around (nEEd hElP) ....On the sideline last night, I heard one of our PLAYERS even say to one another, "Man, it's like we have never played football before in our life!"
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Post by ogie4 on Oct 26, 2005 9:30:23 GMT -6
do any of you guys think today's kids have way more issues with just seeing things in space and being able to pick things out? OL, wr's, db's, lbr's, anyone on the field basically, just seem to have no clue how to adjust on the run and see how another guy might actually try! how dare they Its from seeing everything from a computer screen instead of from playing. Most kids today (disclaimer, urban kids) don't play outside like kids did 20 years ago and longer. The first time most kids play football is in middle school, they don't grow up playing neighborhood games. Spatial awareness in my opinion is developed in backyard games. I have seen this same problem when I coached hockey, so this is more then a football related problem.
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Post by carson101 on Nov 6, 2005 0:38:43 GMT -6
This is funny, the second yr of coaching for me was great, I was a jr. pee wee head coach and the only way I could get my players to relate to football is if I designed the playbooks off of the very first nintendo game that came out. I think it was madden 97' or something like that the neet thing was we went 7-3 and won the Championship..now that was weird
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Post by los on Nov 6, 2005 11:33:06 GMT -6
I never had too much trouble with the younger guys (8-12), they for the most part would eat and sleep football, and the tough P.E. coach took care of my conditioning, so at practise time we could concentrate on football stuff! These were mostly country boys(used to doing stuff outside all year) so life was good! When they get older and start thinking about girls, cars, summer jobs to support the first two, or just wanting to hang out with the older crowd on the weekends, thats when the trouble/challenge starts!
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Post by boblucy on Nov 6, 2005 14:56:49 GMT -6
If someone asked me what change in pro football has been the biggest in the last 20 years: linemen OFF steroids. To be honest, I have a tape of the Super Bowl between the Broncos and Giants from Jan. 1987...Then I see the Raiders-Bucs Super Bowl in Jan. 2003....I see the Raiders with their 330lb. ave. O-line and then see the Giants 280 ave. O-line-no fat. The 1986 season was one without steroid testing and the linemen are ALL muscle, no fat. The Raiders of 2002, where drug testing is rampant, were probably 280 lbs. of muscle per lineman, but they all had 50 lbs. of fat per lineman..Yes, they all used some supplements, but I doubt steroids....Before steroid testing, there were very few FAT linemen. They were just as strong as today's guys, and they were quicker. Why do people oogle over "The Refrigirator" of 1985??? Because he was a 325lb. guy with FAT in an era of lean muscular O-line and D-linemen....Today he would be of very average size.....
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