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Post by khalfie on Oct 31, 2007 16:47:55 GMT -6
Was watching PTI... and Tony says, "... someone would take this a little too far... and hurt a Brady, hurt a Manning, or hurt a Favre... we are dangerously close to the line of advocating injury..."
Does football innately advocate injury?
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Post by eickst on Oct 31, 2007 16:57:41 GMT -6
What was the entire context of the statement?
And just to clarify, Tony Kornhole is a moron regardless of what he says.
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Post by brophy on Nov 1, 2007 9:00:43 GMT -6
in all fairness, Tony Kornheiser is a fine writer and radio host. However, where he falls short is his complete lack of grasp of the reality of sports. Now, part of it likely is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator of 'sports fans' (frustrated former athletes who never realized any potential) by making banal comments with no legitimate perspective of a competitive athlete.
I resent ESPN anymore.......and because of its effect on the NFL, I resent the NFL.
College football is about the only thing I can stomach any more ( I hate how that sounds, because I appreciate what the NFL is supposed to be ).
If I wanted to know what Charles Barkley is doing, how Brett Favre's wife is spearheading a social cause, what new book Mike Lupica has out, any new ABC sitcom is coming out, a new recipe Marv Levy has.....shoot, I'd look into it....NOT tune into a game.
While the new MNF cast is worlds better than it ever has been in a while....the "3rd Qtr Stretch" is intollerable as we get brief glimpses of the game during a 60 minutes type interview
Last weekend, Tony's PTI buddy suggested that if he were a player, he would purposely take a shot at Brady's knees.
There are a lot of "weekend-flag-football-warriors" out there.
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Post by phantom on Nov 1, 2007 9:01:03 GMT -6
Was watching PTI... and Tony says, "... someone would take this a little too far... and hurt a Brady, hurt a Manning, or hurt a Favre... we are dangerously close to the line of advocating injury..." Does football innately advocate injury? I'd need a little more context.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Nov 1, 2007 9:05:16 GMT -6
They were talking about the Pats and the acusations that they were running up the score. They were debating if it would lead someone to take a "shot" at Brady late in a blowout.
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Post by brophy on Nov 1, 2007 9:06:48 GMT -6
maaaaaybe, it would inspire some people to FINISH games.
WHO is advocating violence? The players? The coaches?
"spy gate" and "running up the score" are again manufactured headlines, just like the "Mike Gundy is a Raving Lunatic" firestorm they attempted to drum up (thing is, EVERY player and coach and fan felt Gundy was completely spot on).
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Post by wingt74 on Nov 1, 2007 10:06:26 GMT -6
Was watching PTI... and Tony says, "... someone would take this a little too far... and hurt a Brady, hurt a Manning, or hurt a Favre... we are dangerously close to the line of advocating injury..." Does football innately advocate injury? Kornhole is an idiot. The louder they yell, the more of an idiot they are. Sound is way down whenever I watch football.
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Post by spreadattack on Nov 1, 2007 10:16:25 GMT -6
Kornheiser was accusing (in a semi-serious way, more serious than usual I guess) his colleague on the show, Michael Wilbon, of advocating injury. Not football itself. Wilbon made a statement that the Pats are risking injury to Tom Brady by leaving him in so long, and that if he were on the field he'd take every opportunity he could to hit Tom Brady. (Originally it sounded like he was advocating injuring him but he tried to retreat from this.)
After Wilbon said he would take every opportunity to hit Brady late in games, Kornheiser said when you talk like that you are "getting dangerously close to advocating injury."
I thought the original poster was kind of going off on a tangent of - is this intrinsic to football? In other words, can you really talk about taking shots at a guy (clean) and "hitting him in the mouth" are you not in some way advocating injury? I don't know. But anyway that is some more context.
So my analysis of Kornheiser's statement is that it's not very controversial, but certainly banal.
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Post by brophy on Nov 1, 2007 10:23:02 GMT -6
Does football innately advocate injury? anymore than hockey (enforcers), baseball (chin music), basketball (Rodman), NASCAR (hello?), Soccer (yeah, soccer gets physical).......?? Any time you put two or more in a competitive environment, emotions and a desire for competitive edge will come out.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Nov 1, 2007 10:26:59 GMT -6
Kornheiser's is a great writer, but he has turned MNF into a circus...I can barely stomach it and have only watched 2 games this year.
Why won't they just submit and let a guy who knows football have the job? First Dennis Miller (whom I love his work but hated on MNF) and now this douchebag? Please cut us a break...
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Post by brophy on Nov 1, 2007 10:31:37 GMT -6
Kornheiser's is a great writer, but he has turned MNF into a circus...I can barely stomach it and have only watched 2 games this year. Why won't they just submit and let a guy who knows football have the job? First Dennis Miller (whom I love his work but hated on MNF) and now this douchebag? Please cut us a break... I thought Kornheiser was good when Theisman was on, because he was subdued and (I think) purposely trying to irritate Joe. NOW, it seems that Kornheiser strains (trying to be the headliner) and tires REALLY hard to be cute and witty and forcing his PTI Wilbon on during half-time to come up with some zippy skits. But he's only doing exactly the same as the rest of the ESPN crew (Parcells & Ditka are the only ones I can tolerate) - trying hard to sound like chatty little girls or something and trying to zing one-liners at every turn. Even Jaworski & Hoge are looking for cheap laughs and lazy 'analysis'. Personally, I liked Miller on MNF, but admit he tried too hard at times (with his reaching-intellectual references) as well.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Nov 1, 2007 10:41:45 GMT -6
Kornheiser's is a great writer, but he has turned MNF into a circus...I can barely stomach it and have only watched 2 games this year. Why won't they just submit and let a guy who knows football have the job? First Dennis Miller (whom I love his work but hated on MNF) and now this douchebag? Please cut us a break... I thought Kornheiser was good when Theisman was on, because he was subdued and (I think) purposely trying to irritate Joe. NOW, it seems that Kornheiser strains (trying to be the headliner) and tires REALLY hard to be cute and witty and forcing his PTI Wilbon on during half-time to come up with some zippy skits. But he's only doing exactly the same as the rest of the ESPN crew (Parcells & Ditka are the only ones I can tolerate) - trying hard to sound like chatty little girls or something and trying to zing one-liners at every turn. Even Jaworski & Hoge are looking for cheap laughs and lazy 'analysis'. Personally, I liked Miller on MNF, but admit he tried too hard at times (with his reaching-intellectual references) as well. Word homie
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Post by carson101 on Nov 1, 2007 10:47:27 GMT -6
I don't watch football, I watch film...lol
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Post by eickst on Nov 1, 2007 12:01:51 GMT -6
Yeah, since I started coaching I have watched the least amount of football this season, but at the same time I have watched more football than I ever have any season...... How the hell is that possible!?
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Post by carson101 on Nov 1, 2007 14:50:31 GMT -6
Your hind sight is 20/20......lol
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Post by falseintellect on Nov 1, 2007 20:19:58 GMT -6
seriously. mnf is horrible now. i stick to sunday nights on nbc these days.
jaws is almost tolerable with somewhat decent post play analysis, but the whole thing is a joke. after the first half it deteriorates until they give up calling the game completely. they have no respect for any teams other then who's in the lead and they call the game like it's over whenever the favorite takes a lead.
i will say, it seems a lot better after friday night college football with lou holtz and mark may. hearing them blather on in a studio is bad enough, but on the call they make a football game pretty much unbearable. mindless mnf interviews are great compared to holtz's senile and unintelligible blathering. and may is just painfully uninformed and unthinking.
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Post by brophy on Nov 2, 2007 7:01:19 GMT -6
stick to sunday nights on nbc these days. Keith Olberman................WHATTHEHELLISTHAT?!?! I still don't know what he does / is doing on that show.................he is so horrible I get uncomfortable. ........and Bob Costas, the Katie Couric of sports.
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Post by wildcat on Nov 2, 2007 7:18:16 GMT -6
I think that it is a fair point that Wilbon brings up...I had no problem with Belichick "running up the score" (or whatever the phrase is for it) but what I DID have a problem with was leaving the most important player on your team in a game that was clearly in hand.
What would we be saying about Belichick right now if Brady had been hit (late or otherwise) and sustained a serious injury? I think Belichick is a great coach, but I don't think that it was a sound decision to leave Brady in. The downsides clearly outweigh the upsides.
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Post by coachveer on Nov 2, 2007 7:54:59 GMT -6
I hope Captain Belichicks vendetta against the rest of the league And his wiliness to bury everyone in his path. Doesn't cost him his only good Arm?
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Post by eickst on Nov 2, 2007 10:40:42 GMT -6
I hope Captain Belichicks vendetta against the rest of the league And his wiliness to bury everyone in his path. Doesn't cost him his only good Arm? LOL!
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Post by khalfie on Nov 2, 2007 14:00:06 GMT -6
From another board I frequent...
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Post by eickst on Nov 2, 2007 14:33:19 GMT -6
Good point, khalfie. Although I do think a line is drawn in trying to lay a big hit, and intentionally injuring someone by taking out knees/etc.
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Post by brophy on Nov 2, 2007 14:48:10 GMT -6
From another board I frequent... I think the uninitiate would assume that you are out to injure.....but it is a physical sport, yes? I mean you can't execute a joint-lock or a roundhouse kick in MMA effectively without making contact with an opponent (the intent isn't to INJURE or HARM, but it is to execute a movement). If you are trying to effectively BLOCK someone with a trunch punch, but end up putting them end-over-end and knocking them out.....the physical reaction is a by-product of sound execution, no? I don't know anyone who has ever competed at a high-level athletically that could tell you they went out there to purposely try to injure anyone. That is ridiculous. If you have any respect for your craft at all, you aren't out there to purposely cut corners. Do we 'reward' BIG HITS? Not anymore than we reward touchdown passes, tight rope catches, great jukes, and frozen-rope throws.......... When a player is laying motionless on the field, I have yet to see anyone celebrating that. Now if a good explosive lick is laid on an offensive player.....you have a right to celebrate because it was a player in a good position to make a play, executing great technique (to make plays). Football is a physical sport, so naturally ANY player that can demonstrate physical dominance over another would be celebrated. If you're watching the Strongman Competition, and Magnus Von Straussenhauser II throws a 95Kg stone over his head violently........it is explosive. Explosive is translated by many as "GREAT EFFORT", people love to see someone giving it their all..........same in football.
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Post by falseintellect on Nov 2, 2007 15:33:10 GMT -6
Keith Olberman................WHATTHEHELLISTHAT?!?! I still don't know what he does / is doing on that show.................he is so horrible I get uncomfortable. i personally like the guy. but either way i cant stand the 'preshows' for any sport on any channel, i just dont get anything out of it.
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Post by phantom on Nov 2, 2007 19:35:46 GMT -6
From another board I frequent... I think the uninitiate would assume that you are out to injure.....but it is a physical sport, yes? I mean you can't execute a joint-lock or a roundhouse kick in MMA effectively without making contact with an opponent (the intent isn't to INJURE or HARM, but it is to execute a movement). If you are trying to effectively BLOCK someone with a trunch punch, but end up putting them end-over-end and knocking them out.....the physical reaction is a by-product of sound execution, no? I don't know anyone who has ever competed at a high-level athletically that could tell you they went out there to purposely try to injure anyone. That is ridiculous. If you have any respect for your craft at all, you aren't out there to purposely cut corners. Do we 'reward' BIG HITS? Not anymore than we reward touchdown passes, tight rope catches, great jukes, and frozen-rope throws.......... When a player is laying motionless on the field, I have yet to see anyone celebrating that. Now if a good explosive lick is laid on an offensive player.....you have a right to celebrate because it was a player in a good position to make a play, executing great technique (to make plays). Football is a physical sport, so naturally ANY player that can demonstrate physical dominance over another would be celebrated. If you're watching the Strongman Competition, and Magnus Von Straussenhauser II throws a 95Kg stone over his head violently........it is explosive. Explosive is translated by many as "GREAT EFFORT", people love to see someone giving it their all..........same in football. We do give a big hit award because it is an important part of the game. But I've also never seen anybody getting jacked up over an opponent that's down. They may jump up and get excited initially but when it becomes apparrant that the other guy isn't getting up things get subdued very quickly. The original question, though, was whether perceived "running it up" could lead to an attempt to intentionally injure a player. I believe that it could.
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Post by coachorr on Nov 4, 2007 0:40:53 GMT -6
I have a hard time watching PTI as the two individuals who banter seem to be the furthest thing from an actual player, coach, administrator, manager or anything esle that might have something to do with sports, that I cannot stomach to think they might actually have some well thought out dialogue that I could gleen some sort of meaningful information to help me understand sports.
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Post by brophy on Nov 4, 2007 3:21:13 GMT -6
to the unitiate, "Cutting" (so often referred to as CHOPPING, by the media)
1) Is the intent to maime players? 2) Do offensive linemen go into a game with the intent of shredding knees by cutting?
HELL & NO
it LOOKS violent, so many assume that it is a malicious tactic who's sole purpose to "take people out".
Does CUTTING promote player violence / player retaliation?
The same as offensive linemen retaliating against defensive players when they can't protect the quarterback and they keep letting DEnds sack the quarterback.
What leads people to "promoting violence" is frustration (can't stop diddly-poo) turns to anger (poor-sport) and irresponsible / immature people respond with physical violence or belittling attempts to humiliate.
Honestly, you play the hand you are dealt - deal with it. Whatever happened to the "take no quarter, ask no quarter" way of thinking?
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Post by coachorr on Nov 4, 2007 3:29:26 GMT -6
I never thought it was fair that a nose guard should be making tackles in the C gap. So I don't view it as unfair to cut his a--.
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