great talent or a great staff

Great talent beats good coaching most days of the week.

From 2001-2004, we went 36-8. Great coaching? Hardly! In that span, we had 4 all-Staters, about 10 D-III football players, 1 D-IAA player, and a kid who went to U of Illinois. By the way, we are a little po-dunk 2A program in NW Illinois. Few, if any, 2A programs have had anywhere near the talent level that we enjoyed during that time period.

Last year? 1-8. No all-Staters. No D-I players, hell, no D-III players! This past season, we did not have the athletes that we were used to having. And because our coaching staff is not great (or even really good), the kids on this past season's team did not get coached and failed mainly because we, as a staff, did not know how to win unless we had superior personnal.

During that 36-8 stretch, we beat the teams that we were BETTER than physically and athletically. However, whenever we played a team that was EQUAL in terms of athletes, we usually didn't win because our kids lost the only advantage they really had.

With all of that being said, 36-8 is still a pretty good four year record!

Average coaching great talent. The coaching can get better, but you can only do so much with out the talent.

The team we faced this year in the state championship had great talent and poor coaching. Their defense had what was supposed to be 6 D-1 future players. I know saying poor coaching is harsh, but judging from the few ineffective adjustments made during the game, it may be kind. They came in allowing 8 points a game, through 14 games.
Our defense may have two D-1 players, three at the most. At half time the other team had 15 total yards of offense, we had over 250 and 37 points.
Their superior athletes got them to the championship game, but when they faced a team with a couple of great athletes, a bunch of kids playing hard, with outstanding coaches, there was no comparison.
Final score: us 51, them 8 (INT return on our backup QB)

All the great coaches out there are usually never completely happy with the game even if it is a win or a loss, because it is a constant motion of analyzations of well if we had done this then this would have happened, yeah its true and hate to make you cringe but.... well I wont say it. I would have been just like you MAV and been really unhappy with the performance even though we had won and played a lackluster game!!

Players play the game- they win the game or lose the game. Still, something that I really believe in and have our players buy in to is this: Every team (10-0 or 0-10) is going to have a couple of studs. Games are usually won by the role players. The Split End who blocks hard every play and may catch 1 pass a game- the O and D lines working together, the Backs who block and carry out fakes- the LBs who are disciplined and play responsibility… those are the guys that win games for you. That being said- you need guys to coach that. This isn’t a plug for our program- but we have been in the playoffs 18 years in a row. Our worst season has been 7-4 in those years. We are a tiny public school in a lower-middle class area. We have had some studs- we play other teams with studs too. On our staff I’ve been here 7 years, one asst. was the head coach for 10 years during the playoff run, another asst. has been here 12 years- two other assistants are new (both played here). I have great coaches who sell our program… every year I say “this is it… our dominance is over once these guys graduate”…
but I do not really believe that because I know our coaches will instill the pride, techniques, knowledge in to our guys to make the lesser athletes 1) not hurt us and 2) eventually help us.

I was a pretty poor athlete- but attitude, preparation, determination and a sense of “my role on this team” was important to me and it allowed me to play at a level beyond other’s expectations.
That value is what runs our program. And in order to instill that value- you need the coaches to do it.

senator,

I believe you hit the nail on the head. Everyone has 2-3 studs on their team. This was my first season at a brand new high school where we are trying to establish a tradition. My top 4 players were as good as anyone we played against and IMO my top player was better than anyone we played against. We went 1-8. Why? We did not have that kid willing to take on the lead block on an ISO and blow it up so his teammate could make the play. We didn't have that WR who would make that downfield block to spring the ballcarrier for a big gain. We didn't have that 3rd string tailback who would run the ball hard Mon-Thur so our 1st team D could get a good look. I believe everyone's 1-5 players are approximately the same. It is players 6-25 that matter. The only way you build those type of players is with a quality staff that sells your program and teaches these kids the game and the importance of fulfilling their role in order to make the team successful.

I have never coached a non-playoff team until this year. Why don't I want to kill myself after this season??? For one, due to an administrative decision, we played a full varsity schedule with only freshmen and sophomores so I will have everyone back for at least the next two seasons. Two, I have a quality staff who are constantly selling the program, working in the weightroom, recruiting other kids who did not play this season, and basically building up our bank of "role players".

So as far as I'm concerned: give me a great staff anytime!!!

It is easy to be a "good coach" when you have talent. It is what you can do as a "coach" when your talent levels are down which will tell you what type of coach you are. Look to the most successful programs in your area. Why are they successful? Mostly it is because they have very good talent and good coaches. And even when that school is "down" they seem to get to the playoffs and have a winning record (even thought by that schools standards it was an off year). Good coaches will get the most out of their players, but talent will take you to the next level. We have the most talented HS in the nation in our division (Long Beach Poly) and they have poor coaching. They still will win 90% of their games and in most years get to the finals and win it. This year they lost in the quarter finals when a good team with great coaching beat them. Coaching is key, but talent makes you that much better.

Is Vicini still at Spring Valley Hall? Wildcat is right they are very consistant. One program that comes to my mind is Hutchinson (MN). They have not had a sub .500 season since the early 70's. Including this year they have made 10 straight trips to the state quarterfinals. They win with talent, and are at worst 4-4 or 5-3 in down years.

No doubt about it, id rather have a great staff. the kids might not be talented but theyd learn the game and learn all of the life lessons that apply from the right guys on staff. Get a bunch of bozos with whistles and clip boards and soon the numbers diminish and the talent disappears anyhow.

i think we also need to define the difference between a great staff and average staff.

A great staff is a group that can beat teams they shouldn't year in and year out. They teach funamentals better and their players have a better understanding of the game.

Fish I think you are correct on everthing except wins and losses.

I have never been on a losing team or coached during a bad season in which I look back and said well we accomplished these goals. I normally look back and first figure out what I as a coach did wrong, then second look at the talent level of our kids, and lastly and most importanly look at the character of the group we were working with. I have been part of 2 losing seasons in 11 years. The coaching was not different but the senior leadership and character was a major factor. You can lead a horse to the water, but you can't always make him drink. I have been part of a winning season with an early exit in the playoffs with the same problem. I think great coaching staffs can will many things, but when the charater of a group is in question that can be much harder to fix. I know you will tell me it is up to the coach to work on charater, trust me we do. But sometimes it just takes 1 or 2 bad apples to put a wrench in the system. We have made some changes in receinet years. If you aren't on board with us as a TEAM player you are gone, no matter how good you are. We have benched and suspened some of our best players if they do things detramental to the TEAM. Overall there is a lot of things that go into winning, but I have never been happy after a losing seaon. #1 reason is that it challenges everything I have been doing and why it didn't work.

thanks aztec. what i meant was that they don't just look at the numbers, they look at what they did or did not accomplish is evaluating themselves and the season.

i also agree with you on the character issue. not every kid will buy into what the coach is selling, and if so, then the kid needs to evaluate why he is there. if he is a problem, then the coach should remove him.