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Post by briangilbert on Feb 4, 2008 22:34:16 GMT -6
Last season our first two opponents refused to trade tape with us.
Team #1 never returned our calls or called us.
Team #2 Told us that it would not help his team because his team wasn't very good anyways. They also never "Showed" up for our JV game.
My thought process this season is that we shouldn't even bother contacting these two schools to trade film and we should find a week 2 JV game without contacting them to tell them.
Is this ethical or not?
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Post by toddniklaus on Feb 4, 2008 22:41:22 GMT -6
Were they conference opponents? Most conferences have rules that need to be followed. I am not sure on non-conference. I have never had the issue come up. I have had a team call the day off and say because of injuries they do not have enough players for the JV game.
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Post by briangilbert on Feb 4, 2008 22:42:50 GMT -6
Non Conference for Week 1 and Week 2.
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 4, 2008 22:48:23 GMT -6
I wouldn't say unethical....un professional maybe, but not unethical.
Un ethical would be making a film swap...and giving you a blank or altered tape
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Post by Yash on Feb 4, 2008 22:59:05 GMT -6
Funny story about this topic. When I coached in alaska the guy I coached with told me a story one time about two coaches he knew who made a film swap. Film trading up there is a big thing because it costs a lot or requires a long drive to get to your destination. Well they exchanged film and one guy went home and started watching the film. Well the film was of a bear hunt taken on a trip. It was a completely honest mistake, especially knowing the guys up there in alaska and their hunting. But the coach always caught heat from the other guy every time they swapped tape after that.
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Post by carookie on Feb 5, 2008 0:10:39 GMT -6
I just don't see why all states don't mandate swapping tapes. The state officials can then make certain that tapes are propperly exchanged. Same everyone time, money, and headaches.
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Post by CoachMikeJudy on Feb 5, 2008 8:22:40 GMT -6
It should remain a gentlemen's agreement- either do it or not. I can see benefits form both sides...
The JV team not showing up! That's BS! Our AD would be all over that one. We actually had a similar situation this past season- Kid's come out for there first JV game starting at 330, so it's 3 and we're beginning warmups, parents are rolling in. 320 rolls aorund and there is only one coach from the other team there- he drove separate. 345- team still hasn't showed up, so I got in contact with our HC to see what was going on...the guy never got a bus and neglected to contact anyone. What a dirtbag!
We had to explain to the parents what was going on, and then in a moment not far from playing backyard football, we split our own squad up into two teams, picking players like I was 8yrs old again...We then scrimmaged ourselves in probably the ugliest display ever to disgrace our stadium.
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ram7gm
Sophomore Member
Posts: 133
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Post by ram7gm on Feb 5, 2008 8:41:31 GMT -6
I think it's only a matter of time before we're entirely online/digital - whether we like it or not - and there's no more actual tape exchange, driving to meet someone early sat morning, dealing with fuzzy vhs images, etc.
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Post by morris on Feb 5, 2008 10:07:44 GMT -6
KY is in the process of going complete online. They split the cost among the schools.
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Post by briangilbert on Feb 5, 2008 10:30:07 GMT -6
The technology I don't think is up to snuff yet. In 10 years I think we will be able to upload all of our tapes online. I guess then afterwards we can just burn them to a dvd.
Thanks for the advice everyone, I personally don't think I will talk to either school.
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Post by resnik77 on Feb 5, 2008 13:32:43 GMT -6
Doing al video exchange via internet sounds great in theory, but who is going to pay for all the the hardware and software that all the schools are going to need. When I still coached at the college level, the conference I was in tried to do this. By about week three we were Fed Exing everything overnight again.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2008 14:45:39 GMT -6
In answer to the original question, briangilbert, I would give them a call and offer a film exchange time and place. If you don't hear from them, then they dropped the ball. I feel sometimes two wrongs do make a right, but this isn't one of them. You owe it to yourself to do the right thing professionally IMO.
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Post by coache67 on Feb 5, 2008 17:39:35 GMT -6
Being close to this situation I will speak to it also. We went out of our way to get films to and from both teams. As bg stated, team 1 didn't even return a call. When I approached the coach pregame, he said he kept "meaning to get back to me." I can't wait to play them next year.
Team 2 I don't even know where to begin with this one. Bottom line, I was in my truck headed to the border of OH and PA when I was calling for final directions when he told that after talking it over with his staff they decided at their Sat. staff meeting to not trade films. They felt we had the talent advantage and that they would be better served by not trading.
At this point, I really don't know where I stand on this one, but I do appreciate the input. Man, I really like this board!
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Post by carookie on Feb 5, 2008 23:18:31 GMT -6
I just don't see why all states don't mandate swapping tapes. The state officials can then make certain that tapes are propperly exchanged. Same everyone time, money, and headaches. Cause it will cost states money, and the state would rather remove the scoreboards and such than pitch money.... I know we have mandatory exchanges for all playoff games; so I still think this is feasible. I dont see this being that big of a financial burden on the governing board, for the whole season that is. If a team isn't exchanging tapes contact the state official, if they do it again, they forfeit. I'm sure that would bring an end to the shennanigans. |
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Post by zoneblitz on Feb 6, 2008 16:34:25 GMT -6
We have also run into the same problem. We met a team in the playoffs in 2004 and signed a 4 year home and home contract with them beginning in 2006 for week #1. I assumed that we would trade scrimmages. When I called the coach (who will be a future HOF coach in our state) he stated that they have never traded scrimmage film before. So, we didn't trade film. He did say that we could the next year. I never called him in 2007.
The moral of the story #1: It has worked out WELL for us....
The moral of the story #2: Build in your trade agreement into your contract.
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Post by rathernot on Feb 7, 2008 11:52:54 GMT -6
Several intersting things to add.
Had to drive 1 1/2 hours to exchange film for a playoff game. Got all the way there made the exchange and started home. When i got home I got a call from the HC that I had traded the wrong film. Was "asked" to return with the correct film the same day. Drove all the way to the opponents school to correct the mistake. Got home around midnight after having driven all day. Oops
Received a film that was missing the entire game winning drive from the end of the game.
Same team sent us a film that was their line view. Every thing was close up of the OL and never followed the ball.
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Post by phantom on Feb 7, 2008 11:58:05 GMT -6
We got one once that was from the wrong year. They gave us a copy of last year's game with that opponent.
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Post by bulldogoption on Feb 7, 2008 14:32:53 GMT -6
Situation 1. NOT unethical. Trading film is not mandatory. Unprofessional and RUDE to not return your calls.
Situation 2. Major screw up on their part. Not sending a team without any phone calls shows some problems in the athletic directors/head coaches arena. And again, I'll add RUDE.
If you are under contract with them you can't really schedule another game unless they agree to void the previous contract right? Or did they void any future contracts when they no-showed the first one? Maybe an AD can help with this.
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Post by khalfie on Feb 7, 2008 15:55:24 GMT -6
What about teams that give you bad film?
Many times in the small school ranks, parents are the film guys, and some of the excuses of the HC are legitimate...
1. Dad paused between every play, but always started the filming too late... looked like a never ending super long play.
2. Film of nothing but the backfield... couldn't see WR's or patterns... couldn't see the o-line... just the QB dropping back?
3. The shaky hand film... so much other movement, you get sea sick watching.
Legitimate with the volunteer film crews... but how do you respond to such impropriety?
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Post by coachd5085 on Feb 7, 2008 18:29:34 GMT -6
khalfie..off the top of my head, in those situations I would mention to coach that next year we would like to have a better quality film, if that was the best he can do, that you might not want to trade film...Politely noting that the although you are sure that is the best efforts they can do, the information swap is obviously not the same. I would also inform the coach that you were going to try and obtain tape from their opponents. Never condescending, but professional and firm.
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Post by carson101 on Feb 8, 2008 1:30:35 GMT -6
We have run into this and find out who they play and make an exchange that way usually, especially rival coaches love to give film.If the opponent is arrogant it usually comes to bite them in the butt later after you kick their arse and then say hey thanks for the film.....lol brief story two yrs ago we had a rival of ours tell another rival to come to the game and watch them kick the crap out of us, so the coach of rival two contacts us and lets us know about it after my inquiry that we were looking for some film on rival one because they didn't want to trade film. I would up trading with a team several miles away, gameday we dominated the jerks. The HC was so ticked when our HC told him he shouldn't let his mouth overload his arse next time and quit being a jerk to put it mildly, last year we traded film then dominated them again and believe it or not the humbleness of that coach was down right amazing.
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