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Post by The Lunch Pail on Jan 8, 2020 11:47:27 GMT -6
I love this thread. Sometimes it gets easy to forget in the offseason that there are (sadly) a number of coaches out there who don't go to clinics or make any effort to learn, and if they do go, they treat it like a frat party instead of a way to get better. Not to stick my nose up at anybody, I just feel bad for players that play for these types of guys.
IMO the real "garbage" offenses are the ones that confuse the players. You can be multiple + simple. We won a playoff game against a team pretty loaded with good-looking athletes, but for whatever reason just could not get it together. One of their coaches accidentally left their call sheet/gameplan for us in the locker room. I picked it up, and thought "damn! that's a lot of calls!" and chalked it up to a "garbage" offense that confused the players. But after time settles in and I re-watch the film of that game in the offseason, they actually were trying to do some pretty good things. They were very pro-style/west coast identity-wise. They just didn't seem like they had players who were 100% confident in their assignments. They literally would run stretch and the only person running stretch was the RB/QB while every OL/WR/TE ran a boot opposite (OL reached away, TE ran an over away).
Also, there can't be too many cooks in the kitchen. I am all for giving assistant coaches autonomy and letting them have a say in things. But when a pro-style team hires a split-back veer guy and a Tony Franklin guy, then it's not uncommon to see a bit of a grab bag mess with them rotating offenses every series. You have to get the buy-in from the coaches!
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 11, 2020 19:39:19 GMT -6
Also, there can't be too many cooks in the kitchen. I am all for giving assistant coaches autonomy and letting them have a say in things. But when a pro-style team hires a split-back veer guy and a Tony Franklin guy, then it's not uncommon to see a bit of a grab bag mess with them rotating offenses every series. You have to get the buy-in from the coaches! I've been there as the AC with a HC who I was trying to teach about the game. He let me install my offense -- up to a point. I had in a partial installation of sidesaddle T, then he decided we'd add I. I explained to him we'd have to have completely different line splits, a different C-QB exchange, he's damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. But then he doesn't "get" the geometry of opening straight vs. reverse pivot, and so in addition to all the rest for the I package, he's got the QB, up back, and deep back doing some overly fancy footwork that doesn't add any deception but makes execution hard. |
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Post by zonedive60 on Jan 12, 2020 9:24:03 GMT -6
Were nearing the end of the season now and im just wondering what garbage offenses have you seen this season? For us the worst imo was a team grab bag offense that ran DTDW Superpower and Counter, Power-I Blast and FB Dive, 'Gun 2x2 SE Post / SL Out. That was their offense Air Raid |
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Post by Down 'n Out on Jan 13, 2020 14:01:56 GMT -6
I love this thread. Sometimes it gets easy to forget in the offseason that there are (sadly) a number of coaches out there who don't go to clinics or make any effort to learn, and if they do go, they treat it like a frat party instead of a way to get better. Not to stick my nose up at anybody, I just feel bad for players that play for these types of guys. IMO the real "garbage" offenses are the ones that confuse the players. You can be multiple + simple. We won a playoff game against a team pretty loaded with good-looking athletes, but for whatever reason just could not get it together. One of their coaches accidentally left their call sheet/gameplan for us in the locker room. I picked it up, and thought "damn! that's a lot of calls!" and chalked it up to a "garbage" offense that confused the players. But after time settles in and I re-watch the film of that game in the offseason, they actually were trying to do some pretty good things. They were very pro-style/west coast identity-wise. They just didn't seem like they had players who were 100% confident in their assignments. They literally would run stretch and the only person running stretch was the RB/QB while every OL/WR/TE ran a boot opposite (OL reached away, TE ran an over away). Also, there can't be too many cooks in the kitchen. I am all for giving assistant coaches autonomy and letting them have a say in things. But when a pro-style team hires a split-back veer guy and a Tony Franklin guy, then it's not uncommon to see a bit of a grab bag mess with them rotating offenses every series. You have to get the buy-in from the coaches! keep it simple, start simple and then add things as you progress. If your players dont progress, then you dont add. My alma mater was VERY multiple. I, Split Backs, Offset I, Power I, Ace with TB, Ace with FB, and every gun set you can imagine but we ran a core set of plays from little league all the way up. To a certain extent Power is Power, doesnt matter if its Split backs, I, Offset I, 2 back Gun, or to the QB from the Gun. But again we came up that way so we were comfortable. Kids have to be confident to be successful. Too many cooks in the kitchen definitely presents some problems. As an offensive assistant ive always had a hand in putting the offense together, but we stick to the core of what were doing. Nothing crazy. |
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Post by Down 'n Out on Jan 13, 2020 14:24:32 GMT -6
Also, there can't be too many cooks in the kitchen. I am all for giving assistant coaches autonomy and letting them have a say in things. But when a pro-style team hires a split-back veer guy and a Tony Franklin guy, then it's not uncommon to see a bit of a grab bag mess with them rotating offenses every series. You have to get the buy-in from the coaches! I've been there as the AC with a HC who I was trying to teach about the game. He let me install my offense -- up to a point. I had in a partial installation of sidesaddle T, then he decided we'd add I. I explained to him we'd have to have completely different line splits, a different C-QB exchange, he's damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. But then he doesn't "get" the geometry of opening straight vs. reverse pivot, and so in addition to all the rest for the I package, he's got the QB, up back, and deep back doing some overly fancy footwork that doesn't add any deception but makes execution hard. Im confused as to why he would want an I formation set when you can run I formation plays from the Side Saddle T? |
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Post by coachcb on Jan 13, 2020 16:40:58 GMT -6
One of the most important pieces of advice I was ever given by a mentor coach was this: "Your offense and defense has to come from SOMEWHERE! Find a school or coach that runs a system you like and learn from them!". Many coaches would be in a much better place if they followed that advice.
We played a team this year that had two schemes; Wishbone and "spread". They ran their Wishbone stuff well and moved the ball fairly effectively. But, they kicked over to "spread" 3x1 and 2x2 sets and started chuckin n' duckin as soon as we were up by 14-0 on them. That lengthened the clock, they turned the ball over and we beat them 39-6 (they scored on our JV). They probably would've given us a game if they'd stuck with the wishbone package as there were times when we struggled with it.
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Post by bobgoodman on Jan 14, 2020 11:41:53 GMT -6
I've been there as the AC with a HC who I was trying to teach about the game. He let me install my offense -- up to a point. I had in a partial installation of sidesaddle T, then he decided we'd add I. I explained to him we'd have to have completely different line splits, a different C-QB exchange, he's damn the torpedos, full speed ahead. But then he doesn't "get" the geometry of opening straight vs. reverse pivot, and so in addition to all the rest for the I package, he's got the QB, up back, and deep back doing some overly fancy footwork that doesn't add any deception but makes execution hard. Im confused as to why he would want an I formation set when you can run I formation plays from the Side Saddle T? Come to think of it, he did keep the QB sidesaddle when we were in the I, so it didn't require a different C-QB exchange. I don't remember the reason, if he stated one, for having an I formation package. I wouldn't say you can run I formation plays from the sidesaddle T. The iso plays are best run with bigger line splits, while in the sidesaddle T I had them tighter to facilitate a couple of wedge plays and make it easier to cover for the puller. It's really an entirely different flavor of offense, and given the amount of practice we were allowed, it kept us from having a full installation of either package. |
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Post by coachluey2 on Jan 14, 2020 12:38:59 GMT -6
played a team that scored 21 points all year. They ran the spread triple option........sorta.... it really looked to be 2 and 3 back shotgun with a dive read and a guy that would just flounder out into the pitch path.
Another team got in Flex and ran stretch......there change up was to get in flex pistol and throw it.
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Post by coachcb on Jan 14, 2020 16:37:27 GMT -6
I will admit, few things drive me more nuts as a DC than a garbage offense filled with studs. They look awful on film but they've got a couple of studs who crank out yardage, regardless. We saw this out of an eventual semi-final team a few years ago; they'd throw out a different offense every single week.
But, they'd find easy ways to get two studs the ball (a WR and a FB) and rip off big yards. They couldn't block most plays to save their lives but those guys were men-among-boys; get them in space and they'd run people over into the end zone.
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