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Post by kurtbryan on Mar 27, 2008 17:24:55 GMT -6
Coaches:
Keeping this thread SERIOUS about forthcoming Innovations, does anyone out there believe in something Truly groundbreaking they are working on?
Or, what ideas Do you Believe are gonna be the next wave in Football?
Keep it Real and thanks.
KB
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Post by dsqa on Mar 27, 2008 23:01:30 GMT -6
We have some incredibly effective training material and some really cool stuff fixing to break in simulation, competition, online learning, mental training, vision training, and the like, before summer.
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Post by eickst on Mar 27, 2008 23:30:02 GMT -6
We have some incredibly effective training material and some really cool stuff fixing to break in simulation, competition, online learning, mental training, vision training, and the like, before summer. And Kurt...I'm working on a D-11 Defense.
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Post by dubber on Mar 28, 2008 0:44:17 GMT -6
I'd like to combine SW and Air Raid
But such a project seems too daunting for one QB/TB...........plus, where would I find practice time for such an endeavor?
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Mar 28, 2008 5:41:35 GMT -6
I'd like to combine SW and Air Raid The key to success will be keeping it simple. Five or six Single Wing plays (that was what you meant by "SW", yes?) and a similar number of Air Raid route packages. If in doubt, cut the last two runs and passes off your list and go with 8 plays total. Here's a start along those lines, at least in terms of running Air Raid packages from Single Wing: www.scribd.com/doc/437709/Two-Useful-Pass-Route-Packages-from-an-Integral-Bunch
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Post by lochness on Mar 28, 2008 5:42:14 GMT -6
Since you're looking for serious replies, I'm automatically disqualified.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on Mar 28, 2008 5:42:55 GMT -6
Since you're looking for serious replies, I'm automatically disqualified. And you're slow, too... ;D ;D
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Post by lochness on Mar 28, 2008 7:06:09 GMT -6
Since you're looking for serious replies, I'm automatically disqualified. And you're slow, too... ;D ;D HAHA! Tell me something I DON'T know, coach!!
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Post by tiger46 on Mar 28, 2008 7:23:52 GMT -6
Ted, That 'Y Stick' Pass is a killer! We loved it last season. I'm so glad I stole....err....learned it from you.
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Post by dubber on Mar 28, 2008 9:24:45 GMT -6
I'd like to combine SW and Air Raid The key to success will be keeping it simple. Five or six Single Wing plays (that was what you meant by "SW", yes?) and a similar number of Air Raid route packages. If in doubt, cut the last two runs and passes off your list and go with 8 plays total. Here's a start along those lines, at least in terms of running Air Raid packages from Single Wing: www.scribd.com/doc/437709/Two-Useful-Pass-Route-Packages-from-an-Integral-BunchYeah, it would have to be very, very simple. I'd probably perfer to run it out of balance line for passing reasons. Wonder how mulitple formations would work out of such a beast? The training for the QB/RB would the toughest thing (second would be finding such an athlete on a consistent basis). Not sure if it isn't more adventageous to just pick one or the other......but still worth considering
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Post by spreadattack on Mar 28, 2008 9:45:46 GMT -6
No answer is what the wrong question begets.
I don't want to be down on looking for things that are seriously innovative, since when they come around it is great, but the "seriously innovative ideas" approach is a bit problemmatic to me. I don't think you have to revolutionize the physics of football every time. I think you might do yourself more harm than good to constantly try and reinvent the wheel. I think there are interesting problems, so here are the areas I'm interested in exploring:
(1) Physics of blocking schemes, leverage, etc. Dealing with fronts for the run game.
(2) Protection schemes and dealing with fronts. All the puzzles you'd ever want.
(3) Coverages that really give you trouble. (One theory I have is that it is {censored} near disuseful to even discuss base, old Cover 2 anymore. I see it so rarely. You see Tampa 2, tough 2, Cover 4 variants, etc).
(4) Unbalanced sets. I think this is only going to grow.
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Post by kurtbryan on Mar 28, 2008 10:11:43 GMT -6
so here are the areas I'm interested in exploring:
(1) Physics of blocking schemes, leverage, etc. Dealing with fronts for the run game.
(2) Protection schemes and dealing with fronts. All the puzzles you'd ever want.
(3) Coverages that really give you trouble. (One theory I have is that it is {censored} near disuseful to even discuss base, old Cover 2 anymore. I see it so rarely. You see Tampa 2, tough 2, Cover 4 variants, etc).
(4) Unbalanced sets. I think this is only going to grow. [/quote][/i]
GOOD REPLIES so Far and Tedsay (that Play # 62 is Nasty)!
SpreadAttack:
1) Physics of blocking schemes and leverage were the Primary problem we encountered Prior to putting in our new system. In fact that is Spot On the single most advantageous Result we accomplished in developing our new system, and I could not have said it better myself.
2) The less People in the Box (we call it White Box) the easier it is to I.D. fronts and shore up Protection Schemes. We saw 9 different looks in 11 games. But I am curious to see more of your protection puzzle applications with various offensive ideas, etc.
3) Coverages, of course varies week to week
* This is a solid thread, great stuff.
KB
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Post by Coach Bruce on May 3, 2008 20:11:58 GMT -6
Why did this die? This is awesome!
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Post by phantom on May 3, 2008 20:22:33 GMT -6
Coaches: Keeping this thread SERIOUS about forthcoming Innovations, does anyone out there believe in something Truly groundbreaking they are working on? Or, what ideas Do you Believe are gonna be the next wave in Football? Keep it Real and thanks.KB We're going to block better than the other guys. We're going to try to tackle better, too.
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Post by raiderpirates on May 3, 2008 21:56:27 GMT -6
Adding more options to routes that read on coverage, in particluar to crossing routes. Have discussed some of that here, and elsewhere.
Combining blocking techniques for half line items so you end up blocking one side of the line with all the blockers.
Set the line deep, run off timed or silent counts, run half the line upfield hard like they would a tunnel screen and half fold the other side but instead of doing a turn hinge they come over like a trey pull and flatten linemen left free to clear past the play side linemen.
You're getting blockers upfield for the screen and still getting hands down by putting big blockers on the penetration players behind the LOS.
It would basically be a swinging gate play off the back side of the line and you'd be doing the opposite to the front side. Probably running the play itself to contain end's side as 6 tech or more and opposite the read end or 5 tech.
That would allow you to do two screen reads as well, a tunnel look and trail it with a sprint draw, or likewise opposite. It could perhaps clear a tunnel screen from across the formation so there's less chance of recognition keys or motion keys being used to anticipate the call.
This would mostly work with shotgun teams who are pass first, not teams who use the spread gun to run from.
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Post by touchdowng on May 4, 2008 1:19:29 GMT -6
A-12 Offense
Defecting to Canada as soon as I can perfect it
3 QBs behind the center. We're having a tough time with the prototype because one QB always feels left out. He wants more touches.
I think the A-11 coach beat us to it so we'll do what we can do in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan.
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tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
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Post by tedseay on May 4, 2008 5:06:24 GMT -6
I don't think you have to revolutionize the physics of football every time. Chris: I don't know about you, but I couldn't if I tried. The only times I approach originality is when I take two or more concepts and try and put them together in ways I haven't seen before. I tried to put together the Bunch Attack and Run & Shoot passing games, and I came up with the early version of my Wild Bunch offense. Then I found Mark Speckman's Fly Sweep offense, put it together with the Wild Bunch -- and found that Manny Matsakis got there several years before I did, joining the R&S and Fly together in his Triple Shoot offense. More recently, I've added an innovative single wing half-spin counter series to the shotgun Fly Sweep and come up with the gun version of the Wild Bunch: www.scribd.com/doc/2550996/gWBSo I guess physics revolutions are out of the question, at least in my case, but football stumbles bravely forward anyhow...
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coacher
Sophomore Member
Posts: 191
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Post by coacher on May 4, 2008 14:59:34 GMT -6
For a little twist in our spread offense we are thinking about 4 down lineman. Splitting our left guard out to our 3 or 4 receiver side and have him lead block for a deep bubble everytime. We can run our zone/counter read bubble off of this and also all of our pass plays with a deep bubble tagged to most of the plays. We are splitting out our guard instead of our tackle so we can keep the rules the same for our read run game.
We will have a check at the line with our qb. 6 in the box pass check. 5 in the box run check. What do you guys think? Again this is a twist in our spread game. We won't run th is but a handful of times each game.
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Post by Coach Huey on May 4, 2008 16:02:10 GMT -6
ah ... so many coaches think it's about being "revolutionary" ...
we all got great plays, so why does one team win and the other lose? ...
maybe we should focus more on HOW we practice, WHAT we practice, WHAT drills we do, HOW we train, WHEN we call certain plays, and WHY we call certain plays... etc.
don't focus on your schemes -- focus on your methodology ... THAT is revolutionary ... haha
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Post by jhanawa on May 4, 2008 17:10:54 GMT -6
Coach Huey,
I agree with what your saying that revolutionary is the approach in teaching it. However, on the flipside of that, I don't know alot of coaches that are actually willing to try something that isn't "proven" and being run by somebody else. I'd say that 99.9% of coaches are copycats by nature, myself included. I think "orginality" often happens by accident, its the guy who sees potential in something that is the "creative" type and the guy who doesn't just chalks it up as a bad play. For Example, Yeoman invented the Veer and Rodriguez the Zone Read from mistakes made in practice....
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Post by Coach Huey on May 4, 2008 18:39:42 GMT -6
i'm not trying to be 'revolutionary' ... i'm not looking for 'the next best thing' ... because, a play is just that one play. a scheme is just that, a mere scheme. playcalling, practice procedures, training methods, program policies, etc. these are things i'm talking about. don't be 'revolutionary' in them (i.e. how can I "change" the game) just be BETTER at them. that is what i'm saying. focus on getting better at calling the right play at the right time. focus on repping the properly needed plays more efficiently & effectively in practice. focus on establishing better locker room chemistry, etc. being a "revolutionary" not likely to win me any games... being "better", though, likely will. so, THAT is what one should probably focus on. and .. hey, guess what ... sometimes, in that focus on simply being more efficient/effective we stumble across something that someone else sees as "revolutionary" ... just worry that when you go looking for the revolutionary magic bullet, you lose sight of those things which really matter. i mean, if i gave you "the" play to run. well, you still gotta teach it right, you still gotta call it at the right time, etc., etc. so ... seems to me that we probably ought to focus on THAT rather than looking for that magic bullet.
what i'm trying to say is that "revolutionizing" the game isn't the goal. getting better at playing the game should be.
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coachwoody
Freshmen Member
Gotta love it!!!
Posts: 45
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Post by coachwoody on May 5, 2008 6:00:11 GMT -6
I've been toying with the idea of running a double tight set with 3 wide from the gun. You can run all the base run game: Jet, Speed Option, Zone Read, Power, Trap, Counter, and Iso. The pass game is easy to run because now you have the 6th man already on the los. IMO it puts normal defenses in a bind because of the double TE alignment. If you load the box then you have to be able to throw the ball.
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Post by lochness on May 5, 2008 6:16:29 GMT -6
i'm not trying to be 'revolutionary' ... i'm not looking for 'the next best thing' ... because, a play is just that one play. a scheme is just that, a mere scheme. playcalling, practice procedures, training methods, program policies, etc. these are things i'm talking about. don't be 'revolutionary' in them (i.e. how can I "change" the game) just be BETTER at them. that is what i'm saying. focus on getting better at calling the right play at the right time. focus on repping the properly needed plays more efficiently & effectively in practice. focus on establishing better locker room chemistry, etc. being a "revolutionary" not likely to win me any games... being "better", though, likely will. so, THAT is what one should probably focus on. and .. hey, guess what ... sometimes, in that focus on simply being more efficient/effective we stumble across something that someone else sees as "revolutionary" ... just worry that when you go looking for the revolutionary magic bullet, you lose sight of those things which really matter. i mean, if i gave you "the" play to run. well, you still gotta teach it right, you still gotta call it at the right time, etc., etc. so ... seems to me that we probably ought to focus on THAT rather than looking for that magic bullet. what i'm trying to say is that "revolutionizing" the game isn't the goal. getting better at playing the game should be. [glow=red,2,300]CAN I HEAR AN "AMEN" ON THAT ONE PEOPLE???[/glow] Sometimes I feel like I am the only one left who still feels that practice organization, game planning, technique, weight room, fundamentals, emotional desire etc. etc. are the areas we should be seeking to improve...not how pretty and smart our new "schemes" look. My wife is a cheerleading coach. Cheerleaders get judged on how orignial and innovative their routines are. In football, that's not the goal (although, sometimes you wouldn't know it by reading on the internet). I honestly think all of this "let's revolutionize the game" talk is getting to be a bit self-serving of us. Offensive coaches in particular are so guilty of this (and I've been an OC for my whole coaching career, so I'm in the "guilty" column). Coaches seem more concerned with trying to "dazzle" everyone and baffle 'em with their BS that they forget all of the other important elements. My stomach turns in knots everytime I read one of these threads that's like, "Coach, we want to run a pistol single-wing Veer Jet Bubble series with a reverse option thrown in for good measure, after a sequenced shift and stemming of key personnel! It will give us the edge we need to survive." (Although, defensive guys, you're not much better, with your tendancy to dress things up and claim them as new and revolutionary when it's the same basic crap people have been running for 30 years...but now you call your DE a "Minotaur" and your Strong Safety a "Slayer"...YIPPEE!) Nobody needs to be worried about being the next super-genius football guy who comes up with the next revolution / evolution of the game. Honestly, that should be the last thing on our minds. I think at this point, we would be much better served trying to teach our kids to block, tackle, run, and catch better than they do now. Find better ways of teaching them to react to situations. Find better ways to prepare them for all the variables that they face both tactically and strategically. THAT's how you're going to win football games, in my humble opinion. Huey- AWESOME post. Thank you for renewing my faith that football is still "football," with blocking, running, and tackling at it's core and that coaching is still "coaching" with fundamental instruction and mental / physical preparation still more important than what you can draw on the chalkboard.
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carnac
Probationary Member
Posts: 6
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Post by carnac on May 5, 2008 7:03:44 GMT -6
Ok then how about this? Does anyone do anything innovative/revolutionary in these areas (practice organization, game planning, technique, weight room, fundamentals, emotional desire etc. etc.)?
Now replies to that question I can get excited about!
I'll post this in a seperate thread if needed.
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Post by CoachDaniel on May 5, 2008 9:54:42 GMT -6
(Although, defensive guys, you're not much better, with your tendancy to dress things up and claim them as new and revolutionary when it's the same basic crap people have been running for 30 years...but now you call your DE a "Minotaur" and your Strong Safety a "Slayer"...YIPPEE!) Where can I get more information on this "Minotaur" defense? Sounds exciting! ;D Seriously, there is innovation everywhere in the areas you guys speak of. They're just minor details though, not massive overhauls. Every time one of us coaches who have no money finds ourselves tying crap from the track shed together to create a drill, we're innovating. It may not be GOOD innovation, but for every 10,000 of us that have it fall apart, someone "invents" a new piece of equipment. Weight room innovations are constant, we have to be creative with what we've got to hit muscles from every angle. In coaching, you're running the 5-3 and you realize you've only got 3 defensive linemen so you innovate the 3-5. Then you give those two cats nicknames from an old mythology book and present it at a clinic. Sweet, sweet innovation...
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Post by kurtbryan on May 5, 2008 10:24:24 GMT -6
ah ... so many coaches think it's about being "revolutionary" ... we all got great plays, so why does one team win and the other lose? ... maybe we should focus more on HOW we practice, WHAT we practice, WHAT drills we do, HOW we train, WHEN we call certain plays, and WHY we call certain plays... etc. don't focus on your schemes -- focus on your methodology ... THAT is revolutionary ... haha Yes indeed Coach Huey, and in fact in our first week of 2008 spring football practice upcoming, we are only working on 5 new plays - for the entire week. Over and Over and Over again, details, details, details. KB
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Post by raiderpirates on May 5, 2008 22:44:19 GMT -6
Those Texas Tech drills for receivers look like they'd work for any system, they help players break routes and beat press coverage much better. Looks like it would work no matter what type of offense is in place, one that does control route or gets vertical, it does wonders for helping guys learn to fit tech to landmarks so they maximize the space on the field they make plays in.
Nothing really groundbreaking, just very simple quick direction/tech change adjustments for skill positions.
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Post by deaux68 on May 6, 2008 12:47:10 GMT -6
While not innovative, we have couple of routes that we will adjust on the run this year. I'm interested in seeing how it will go.
We have a screen that I haven't seen anyone else run in combination with the other things we are doing with it. At some point this Spring I'm going to violate a law and run a speed sweep into the GT pull. Just want to see what that end will do when he has speed sweep coming his way but at the same time a GT pull going away from him.
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Post by fbdoc on May 6, 2008 17:38:06 GMT -6
I think lochness' comment about attempts to "revolutionize the game are becoming self serving..." is quite accurate, and I am just as guilty. I still remember back in the late 90's when I thought "my" one back fly sweep scheme was quite original. I was an idiot!
I also like this post from Hugh Wyatt's board that goes back to what coachhuey said a few posts back...
The quote is - "I just finished reading Tony Dungy's book, and Coach Dungy speaks of the influence Chuck Noll - and Coach Noll's mentor, Paul Brown - had on him:
"Chuck Noll developed much of his coaching philosophy from Paul Brown, and I got mine from Chuck. I tell people that I'm from the Paul Brown school of coaching."
A major part of that philosophy, Coach Dungy stresses in his book, is
"Do the ordinary things better than everyone else."
He also quotes Dr. George Washington Carver along those same lines:
"When you can do the common things in life in an uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world." end quote.
Its not about coming up with the Next big thing. It will always be about motivation, conditioning, and fundamentals! Coaches who forget that - and I have also been guilty of that - will reap what they sow.
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Post by briangilbert on May 6, 2008 18:11:21 GMT -6
I've combined the West Coast with the Air Raid and couldn't be happier with the results.
I only have our backs blocking in our Quick game they are released the rest of the time.
Our TE's are also never in Pass Pro.
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