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Post by fshamrock on Apr 26, 2019 11:57:06 GMT -6
scenario:
few weeks back, we had a big girls soccer home game against a rival team, one of the guys on our football staff is an assistant coach. Really good guy who is from this town and well thought of by most. He's young, is pretty familiar with the kids, and is a bit of an attention {censored}....I think if pressed even he would likely admit this
anyway...I don't know the circumstances, but apparently there was some bet, and as a result of losing this bet the coach did a dance routine in front of the crowd during the intermission, some thing akin to twerking I guess (i hate that I know what that is)
anyway another young coach we have was apparently jealous of the attention being received by this guy so he jumped out there too on his own accord and got in on the action
I think there are two schools of thought here:
1 - who cares? life is short right? if the kids think it's fun and the crowd likes it what's the harm right?
2 - It makes us all look bad, not just us as a staff here, but the profession in general. We ain't running pee wee teams over here, this is serious business that should be treated with a modicum of respect. When we dance around like idiots to be funny and get attention we are drawing it onto ourselves instead of the athletes competing. Athletes have worked hard to get where they are. Particularly the ones on the opposing team (we won) who not only had to grapple with losing but losing to a team that apparently sees the whole thing as a big joke
not to mention the fact that this dude is on our football staff and I need him to be able to push young men past their limits.....is any kid that plays for him really going to dig in that extra mile for a guy who runs around like a jackalope for laughs?
As you may have gathered I'm an option 2 guy, but I am willing to hear opposing arguments. I doubt seriously I'll be persuaded because i'm pretty dug in on this one. I've always been a go along to get along guy when it comes to the district, I'll do what they ask me to do: lunch duty, take on discipline problems, whatever...only time I ever drew the line with an administrator is when I was informed that the drill team had asked me to be a part of some teachers dance routine for some fall festival, I sad no was told it wasn't optional and said no again, probably lost a little good will but that's not what I got hired to do and I'm not somebody's pet monkey to do tricks and entertain....just my thoughts on the matter
It's a Friday and I've got nothing going on.....discuss
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Post by olinecoach61 on Apr 26, 2019 12:04:00 GMT -6
Coach I'm with you on #2. Maybe sit these guys down and remind them that they are professionals now, this is the downside of having young bloods on staff. If you are the HC I would both of them down and let them know how you feel.
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Post by dmg10007 on Apr 26, 2019 12:12:55 GMT -6
Coach, I think it comes down to how his relationship is with your players. It's much easier to go the extra mile for a coach you truly like and if being humorous helps strengthen that relationship then I think this shouldn't be an issue, as long as he is capable of communicating with his guys that there's a time for laughs and a time to be serious.
However if you notice guys not respecting the coach because of his behavior then it might be time to have a discussion about the behavior.
In my personal experience, a guy who both likes you AND respects you will want to perform well for you because he wants to make you look good as a coach and because he values your interpersonal relationship. A guy who respects you but doesnt like you will most likely only want to do good enough to not make you mad.
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Post by wolverine55 on Apr 26, 2019 12:20:16 GMT -6
I just want to make sure I'm correct on this: this guy is on your football staff AND is an asst girls' soccer coach, correct? And, this dance was at intermission, meaning not after the game, correct? Those that know me know that I'm very patient and have a long leash in certain cases...and I would consider that an almost fireable offense. I mean, shouldn't there be coaching going on during this intermission as opposed to twerking for the crowd? And, in this day and age, I'm a little surprised he's not hearing about this from administration considering the nature of the movements that comprise twerking...
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Post by MICoach on Apr 26, 2019 12:20:29 GMT -6
Firmly option 1. If the kids enjoy it and nobody is being humiliated, it's appropriate, and no one is being forced into anything then go for it.
During homecoming we have some teacher lip sync battles and stuff like that and the kids eat it up. The only thing I've ever really done was the teacher vs. student tug-o-war and reffing the powder puff game, but that's the sort of stuff that I think can lead to a great school culture.
Then again I'm not super concerned with being serious, and one of my most common sayings in season is "it's only high school football" so maybe I'm an outlier.
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Post by fshamrock on Apr 26, 2019 12:23:52 GMT -6
I just want to make sure I'm correct on this: this guy is on your football staff AND is an asst girls' soccer coach, correct? And, this dance was at intermission, meaning not after the game, correct? Those that know me know that I'm very patient and have a long leash in certain cases...and I would consider that an almost fireable offense. I mean, shouldn't there be coaching going on during this intermission as opposed to twerking for the crowd? And, in this day and age, I'm a little surprised he's not hearing about this from administration considering the nature of the movements that comprise twerking... I'm not the head football coach I can see from my post that might be implied...my bad when I said I need him to be a good coach I mean that in the sense of our team will be successful when his players play well i'm just a slappy assistant like him, i'm a good bit older but he doesn't report to me in any way |
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Post by wolverine55 on Apr 26, 2019 12:25:53 GMT -6
I gotcha. Thanks for the quick response. I too am "only" an assistant, just for clarification. It would REALLY rub me the wrong way if he did this during halftime instead of after the game. I still wouldn't like it being after the game, but that's better than halftime. But, as an assistant football coach who doesn't coach soccer, it wouldn't be up to me to really say anything either.
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Post by fshamrock on Apr 26, 2019 12:26:10 GMT -6
Firmly option 1. If the kids enjoy it and nobody is being humiliated, it's appropriate, and no one is being forced into anything then go for it. During homecoming we have some teacher lip sync battles and stuff like that and the kids eat it up. The only thing I've ever really done was the teacher vs. student tug-o-war and reffing the powder puff game, but that's the sort of stuff that I think can lead to a great school culture. Then again I'm not super concerned with being serious, and one of my most common sayings in season is "it's only high school football" so maybe I'm an outlier. I'm with you I think there's a place for some of that stuff......take a pie in the face for the fundraiser or something...not a big deal but this thing was part of an actual competition...I think that's the part that wrankles me...it wasn't a pep rally or something like that...a freaking game....ugh |
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Post by MICoach on Apr 26, 2019 12:35:30 GMT -6
Firmly option 1. If the kids enjoy it and nobody is being humiliated, it's appropriate, and no one is being forced into anything then go for it. During homecoming we have some teacher lip sync battles and stuff like that and the kids eat it up. The only thing I've ever really done was the teacher vs. student tug-o-war and reffing the powder puff game, but that's the sort of stuff that I think can lead to a great school culture. Then again I'm not super concerned with being serious, and one of my most common sayings in season is "it's only high school football" so maybe I'm an outlier. I'm with you I think there's a place for some of that stuff......take a pie in the face for the fundraiser or something...not a big deal but this thing was part of an actual competition...I think that's the part that wrankles me...it wasn't a pep rally or something like that...a freaking game....ugh So I'm curious where you (or others) stand on this then... In high school our head freshmen football coach was also probably the most universally well-liked teacher in the school. Athletes, non-athletes, stoners, the whole school loved him. He also led pep rallies when we had them. And it became a tradition at the school that at halftime of the varsity football game he would get up in front of the student section and lead a cheer or some sort before the second half started (he had no varsity gameday duties). Acceptable or no? I'm genuinely curious, as it had been going on long enough by the time I was in school that I didn't second guess it. |
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Post by fshamrock on Apr 26, 2019 12:44:33 GMT -6
I'm with you I think there's a place for some of that stuff......take a pie in the face for the fundraiser or something...not a big deal but this thing was part of an actual competition...I think that's the part that wrankles me...it wasn't a pep rally or something like that...a freaking game....ugh So I'm curious where you (or others) stand on this then... In high school our head freshmen football coach was also probably the most universally well-liked teacher in the school. Athletes, non-athletes, stoners, the whole school loved him. He also led pep rallies when we had them. And it became a tradition at the school that at halftime of the varsity football game he would get up in front of the student section and lead a cheer or some sort before the second half started (he had no varsity gameday duties). Acceptable or no? I'm genuinely curious, as it had been going on long enough by the time I was in school that I didn't second guess it. snap judgment I don't see anything wrong with that at all...and I'm not even really sure it's all that different from my example truth me told it's entirely possible that my example is different because maybe I just don't like this dude all that much growth |
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Post by carookie on Apr 26, 2019 14:25:12 GMT -6
Let me ask this, if it was the crusty 60-year-old OL coach who just for a moment decided to be silly and did a dance (all elese being equal) would we be as upset?
Is this just another straw on the camels back? Does his youth and current relationship with players/students make this different than in my example?
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Post by coachd5085 on Apr 26, 2019 14:40:50 GMT -6
Only issue should be the Head Soccer Coach and the AD for having him do this during intermission as opposed to post game or another time.
As far as the act itself... Well, Tom Izzo dressed up like Iron Man and had his family dressed like other comic book characters (including his wife and daughter in skintight leather outfits)..
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Post by CS on Apr 26, 2019 16:05:45 GMT -6
Douchey? Absolutely! Inappropriate? Nah. I know a guy like you’re talking about that coaches at a school near us only he is in his 30’s.
The thing about those guys is that they will be the ones that backstab you in a down year to further themselves
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Post by 19delta on Apr 26, 2019 17:08:26 GMT -6
Douchey? Absolutely! Inappropriate? Nah. I know a guy like you’re talking about that coaches at a school near us only he is in his 30’s. The thing about those guys is that they will be the ones that backstab you in a down year to further themselves ...either that or they get arrested for banging students. |
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Post by CS on Apr 26, 2019 18:16:36 GMT -6
Douchey? Absolutely! Inappropriate? Nah. I know a guy like you’re talking about that coaches at a school near us only he is in his 30’s. The thing about those guys is that they will be the ones that backstab you in a down year to further themselves ...either that or they get arrested for banging students. That’s if you aren’t having a down year |
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Post by bobgoodman on Apr 27, 2019 7:48:46 GMT -6
scenario: few weeks back, we had a big girls soccer home game against a rival team, one of the guys on our football staff is an assistant coach. Really good guy who is from this town and well thought of by most. He's young, is pretty familiar with the kids, and is a bit of an attention {censored}....I think if pressed even he would likely admit this anyway...I don't know the circumstances, but apparently there was some bet, and as a result of losing this bet the coach did a dance routine in front of the crowd during the intermission, some thing akin to twerking I guess (i hate that I know what that is) anyway another young coach we have was apparently jealous of the attention being received by this guy so he jumped out there too on his own accord and got in on the action I think there are two schools of thought here: 1 - who cares? life is short right? if the kids think it's fun and the crowd likes it what's the harm right? 2 - It makes us all look bad, not just us as a staff here, but the profession in general. We ain't running pee wee teams over here, this is serious business that should be treated with a modicum of respect. Just because you get paid doesn't mean it's serious business. What's everybody involved for? The players play. They use that word for a reason. The audience is entertained. Yes, someone could be seriously hurt, but that could happen as an accidental byproduct of anything you do, including driving there. The only problem I'd have would be possibly in the content you describe as twerking at a school affair. Dancing, OK, but what you describe might've been lewd. I'd have to see it to tell. I don't know whether your criticism was of its exact content or just the idea of doing a dance. Anyway, where is interscholastic soccer a spring sport? I'm actually more interested in knowing that. |
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Post by pvogel on Apr 27, 2019 10:22:59 GMT -6
There is always a line. And what they did may have been silly or something but also not the end of the world.
But it would be worth talking with them about it and just getting them to understand if they have ambitions of higher responsibility roles (Coordinator, HC, etc.) then they may need to scale some of that stuff back a bit.
That way you don't come off as a "fun-killer" or anything like that and you're simply helping them and providing career advice. Any way to spin it so you're not "attacking" them or making them feel like a victim.
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Post by wolverine55 on Apr 27, 2019 10:34:58 GMT -6
scenario: few weeks back, we had a big girls soccer home game against a rival team, one of the guys on our football staff is an assistant coach. Really good guy who is from this town and well thought of by most. He's young, is pretty familiar with the kids, and is a bit of an attention {censored}....I think if pressed even he would likely admit this anyway...I don't know the circumstances, but apparently there was some bet, and as a result of losing this bet the coach did a dance routine in front of the crowd during the intermission, some thing akin to twerking I guess (i hate that I know what that is) anyway another young coach we have was apparently jealous of the attention being received by this guy so he jumped out there too on his own accord and got in on the action I think there are two schools of thought here: 1 - who cares? life is short right? if the kids think it's fun and the crowd likes it what's the harm right? 2 - It makes us all look bad, not just us as a staff here, but the profession in general. We ain't running pee wee teams over here, this is serious business that should be treated with a modicum of respect. Just because you get paid doesn't mean it's serious business. What's everybody involved for? The players play. They use that word for a reason. The audience is entertained. Yes, someone could be seriously hurt, but that could happen as an accidental byproduct of anything you do, including driving there. The only problem I'd have would be possibly in the content you describe as twerking at a school affair. Dancing, OK, but what you describe might've been lewd. I'd have to see it to tell. I don't know whether your criticism was of its exact content or just the idea of doing a dance. Anyway, where is interscholastic soccer a spring sport? I'm actually more interested in knowing that. Both boys and girls soccer are spring sports in Iowa. I believe Illinois is fall soccer for boys but spring for girls. |
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Post by tothehouse on Apr 27, 2019 11:25:53 GMT -6
How good of a coach is this person? Are they more into doing these kinds of things than being a good coach?
I'm asking because I think some of the guys on a staff can be this kind of guy. I know if we had any of them on our staff they wouldn't be in the position of making a huge decision in a crucial situation.
Not saying someone can't be fun, etc. I just feel like the guys I've been around take their JOB seriously and wouldn't put themselves into a position to be talked about like this. "Did you see Coach____. He was doing this and this."
At a rally, in the quad at lunch, etc. Doing something unexpected would be funny, etc. But it seems like sometimes these guys do that for the attention. IMO people should say, "that guy knows how to coach" before "that guys a goof and also coaches"
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Post by Defcord on Apr 27, 2019 15:02:32 GMT -6
How about the article on football scoop today about Pete Carroll taking his shirt off at a predraft interview.
Some guys just do goofy stuff. I am not one of them. But if you can coach and you treat kids right then I say do whatever gives you the best chance to have fun and win.
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Post by The Lunch Pail on Apr 27, 2019 16:25:47 GMT -6
As a young coach (20’s), I would NEVER do this. Not only is it not in my personality, but if a player sees a young coach doing this, they’ll start to look at him as a peer more than as a coach.
I used to try to be kinda goofy in my first year of my career (19 yrs old) as I’m a little bit of a jokester off the field. Result? I became addressed by our own players by my first name. No longer was I “coach ____”. I had to literally leave schools after that just to try and get a fresh start.
Don’t ever be a douchebag, but NEVER be the “cool sub”. A little bit of sarcasm now and then is just fine, but that is it. I learned this lesson the hard way
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Post by 19delta on Apr 27, 2019 17:44:47 GMT -6
Firmly option 1. If the kids enjoy it and nobody is being humiliated, it's appropriate, and no one is being forced into anything then go for it. During homecoming we have some teacher lip sync battles and stuff like that and the kids eat it up. The only thing I've ever really done was the teacher vs. student tug-o-war and reffing the powder puff game, but that's the sort of stuff that I think can lead to a great school culture. Then again I'm not super concerned with being serious, and one of my most common sayings in season is "it's only high school football" so maybe I'm an outlier. The difference is that twerking is overtly sexual. Lip syncimg is not. That is where the line should be drawn. "Fun" stuff is OK. But when staff members are engaging in public behavior that would not be appropriate at a school function, then that isn't OK. With that being said, if I'm not the HFC or an administrator, I'm not saying anything. Stay in your lane. |
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Post by 19delta on Apr 27, 2019 17:46:40 GMT -6
I'm with you I think there's a place for some of that stuff......take a pie in the face for the fundraiser or something...not a big deal but this thing was part of an actual competition...I think that's the part that wrankles me...it wasn't a pep rally or something like that...a freaking game....ugh So I'm curious where you (or others) stand on this then... In high school our head freshmen football coach was also probably the most universally well-liked teacher in the school. Athletes, non-athletes, stoners, the whole school loved him. He also led pep rallies when we had them. And it became a tradition at the school that at halftime of the varsity football game he would get up in front of the student section and lead a cheer or some sort before the second half started (he had no varsity gameday duties). Acceptable or no? I'm genuinely curious, as it had been going on long enough by the time I was in school that I didn't second guess it. Again...I would put that in the "fun" category. If your head freshman coach did a twerking routine at halftime of the varsity game, that would be clearly inappropriate. |
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Post by 19delta on Apr 27, 2019 17:48:55 GMT -6
Only issue should be the Head Soccer Coach and the AD for having him do this during intermission as opposed to post game or another time. As far as the act itself... Well, Tom Izzo dressed up like Iron Man and had his family dressed like other comic book characters (including his wife and daughter in skintight leather outfits).. Was he twerking in the Iron Man costume?  |
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Post by coachsticks on Apr 28, 2019 5:20:26 GMT -6
[quote author=" fshamrock" source="/post/919821/thread" timestamp="1556301426"It makes us all look bad, not just us as a staff here, but the profession in general. We ain't running pee wee teams over here, this is serious business that should be treated with a modicum of respect. [/quote] Lol...serious business? You are coaching high school football, dude. Football. A game. |
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Post by CS on Apr 28, 2019 5:27:04 GMT -6
[quote author=" fshamrock" source="/post/919821/thread" timestamp="1556301426"It makes us all look bad, not just us as a staff here, but the profession in general. We ain't running pee wee teams over here, this is serious business that should be treated with a modicum of respect. Lol...serious business? You are coaching high school football, dude. Football. A game. [/quote] Depends on where you are. It becomes serious business when you can be fired from your job over a game |
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