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Post by stackattack on Jan 7, 2007 21:08:44 GMT -6
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Post by tog on Jan 7, 2007 21:16:51 GMT -6
I would rather just stay in college
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Post by Yash on Jan 7, 2007 21:40:38 GMT -6
I give him 3 years, maybe 4
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Post by coachdawhip on Jan 7, 2007 21:45:17 GMT -6
I'm thinking about not renewing my tickets, we need a strong will vet to come in here and to tell Vick and teammattes to shut up and play football. I love Bobby as a coach, but I preferred a ole vet, I hope he hires good coordinators!
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Post by stackattack on Jan 7, 2007 21:47:31 GMT -6
Just curious to see if he can devise an offense that Vick can thrive in. It doesn't seem to me that his offenses at Louisville centered around an athletic QB. Guess we will see.
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Post by CVBears on Jan 7, 2007 22:37:28 GMT -6
It will be interesting to see what his draft is like. Does he really have all that many players that are suited to his system?
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Post by superpower on Jan 8, 2007 7:58:47 GMT -6
I wouldn't bet that the offense will be built around Vick, at least not after next season. Word on ESPN was that the candidates were told that they wouldn't be married to Vick as QB in Atlanta. Matt Schaub, on the roster as a backup QB, may be a better fit for Petrino's offense.
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coachf
Freshmen Member
Posts: 15
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Post by coachf on Jan 8, 2007 8:53:08 GMT -6
well...looks interesting. I don't know how many other suckers would have taken the Michael Vick disaster....excuse me, Atlanta job.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 8, 2007 9:21:22 GMT -6
Now just give him Hershel Walker to trade away and he can be like Jimmy Johnson!
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Post by wingtol on Jan 8, 2007 10:22:32 GMT -6
Would be intresting to see him trade Vick and get a crap load of draft picks to build with. But then again I have a feeling he will be back in the college game in a few years just like so many recent coll to nfl coaches.
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Post by wildcat on Jan 8, 2007 10:24:31 GMT -6
Odd choice. Vick is no Brian Brohm...
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baraboo99
Sophomore Member
[F4:ryan.andersen33]
Posts: 205
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Post by baraboo99 on Jan 8, 2007 11:10:04 GMT -6
Do you think team's are going to give up a lot for a guy who has proven that he can't thrive in systems that were designed to limit his mistakes? Or a guy who has been given plenty of talent in his supporting cast and still can't throw for more then 2000 yards in a season?
Maybe Petrino will be the first people to have the sack to tell Vick he doesn't belong at QB. You can't survive in the NFL if you can't make all the NFL throws. Just because he's Mike Vick he gets away with a level of play that would have gotten any other QB benched after one season...and he has done it for 5 now!
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Post by superpower on Jan 8, 2007 11:29:18 GMT -6
I still believe Vick can succeed in the NFL at QB, but not in the stereotypical systems that most teams run. Look what Tennessee did with Vince Young. They studied how Young was successful at Texas and implemented that style of play. Vick has been a square peg that they have tried to stuff into a round hole. They have limited the things he does best and asked him to be someone that he is not. I don't think he will ever lead the league in passing or qb rating, but in the right system he can be a handful.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 8, 2007 11:56:04 GMT -6
Odd choice. Vick is no Brian Brohm... You know, interesting you say that. You'd think with Vick as the franchise player Atlanta would search for a coach that has had success with at player like him. I am leaning towards what Superpower is saying too. I think the type of offense you build around Vick is a dominating RUN offense and a good defense. Get more run blockers, and less WRs. I think Vick does well on Baltimore...or...could you imagine Vick on the Bears? |
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 8, 2007 22:28:56 GMT -6
Vick isn't going anywhere for at least a season or so, but I think Vick is no longer "untouchable," especially without more wins. Petrino has always been able to develop good run offenses (when he was OC at Auburn he had Cadillac Williams and Reggie Brown) so I don't think it's a problem. The Falcons aren't going to hire Fisher Deberry.
The big issue to me is Petrino's ability to control the team and organization. Atlanta became a side-show program with the Vick and Mora Jr comments, and although Petrino is known as a fairly rigid guy, if they rattle off some losses the internal and external pressures will be heavy and we know Vick won't really hesitate to hang a coach out to dry--Dan Reeves had been around quite a long time and it happened to him.
Say what you will to Petrino about loyalty but I see there being little downside to this to him personally. Obviously the money is good (~4-5 million a year), he takes over a struggling team with some talent, and bottom line is even if he flames out after 3 years he can return to college with (probably) a major program. To me it is the Falcons who are taking the big risk on a guy who only has about 3 seasons of NFL experience and only a few seasons as a head coach.
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Post by tog on Jan 8, 2007 23:19:30 GMT -6
if atl would just use vick like he could be
then they could do something with him
using him in some sort of "wco" is just stupid
run some zone/ gt read stuff with him from a jillion formations
let him throw bubbles and things like the florida staff ran tonight and see what vick could do
watching atlanta the last couple of years has been painfull
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 8, 2007 23:24:33 GMT -6
if atl would just use vick like he could be then they could do something with him using him in some sort of "wco" is just stupid run some zone/ gt read stuff with him from a jillion formations let him throw bubbles and things like the florida staff ran tonight and see what vick could do watching atlanta the last couple of years has been painfull this definitely has alot of merit. however, i think most teams are so worried about their starter going down due to an injury that this prevents them from wanting the qb to run too much. plus, the backup would probably need to be similar in approach as vick. otherwise, if he went down, you just wasted alot of your offense since the other guy would not be suited to run it. so, with that being said, practice would essentially be devoted to practicing 2 game plans each week. while the nfl has many more hours, resources, 'smart' players to accomodate this, i still dont know how feasible it would be. or, at the very least, how many head coaches wish to go down that road. granted, an injury can occur at any time. i think they are still more afraid of one happening with him doing some of the 'college' stuff as opposed to the 'pro' stuff. whether THAT has merit, i do not have an answer. |
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Post by tog on Jan 8, 2007 23:25:49 GMT -6
how hard would it be to get backup vicks? as opposed to backup mannings? if atl would just use vick like he could be then they could do something with him using him in some sort of "wco" is just stupid run some zone/ gt read stuff with him from a jillion formations let him throw bubbles and things like the florida staff ran tonight and see what vick could do watching atlanta the last couple of years has been painfull this definitely has alot of merit. however, i think most teams are so worried about their starter going down due to an injury that this prevents them from wanting the qb to run too much. plus, the backup would probably need to be similar in approach as vick. otherwise, if he went down, you just wasted alot of your offense since the other guy would not be suited to run it. so, with that being said, practice would essentially be devoted to practicing 2 game plans each week. while the nfl has many more hours, resources, 'smart' players to accomodate this, i still dont know how feasible it would be. or, at the very least, how many head coaches wish to go down that road. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Jan 8, 2007 23:30:52 GMT -6
gettin quality backups is always a concern. but, athleticism may be harder to find in an quarterback than it is to find a qb that can make a read and deliver the ball on time.
take the cowboys as an example. bledsoe was a starter, romo 'backed up' .. when he played, the offense was the same, albeit with more moving pockets. however, when bledsoe had to come in, the offense was still essentially the same.
griese/grossman ... ok, that may be a poor example ... lol (sorry , brophy) but the jist is the same, most qb's can at least manage a pro-style offense.
although, with the proliferation of athletic qb's ... this type of stuff may not be that far off in the nfl. it is just going to take someone with foresight (or balls) to take that chance
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Post by tog on Jan 8, 2007 23:34:57 GMT -6
I am waiting for that when it happens, the nfl will be much more fun to watch for me gettin quality backups is always a concern. but, athleticism may be harder to find in an quarterback than it is to find a qb that can make a read and deliver the ball on time. take the cowboys as an example. bledsoe was a starter, romo 'backed up' .. when he played, the offense was the same, albeit with more moving pockets. however, when bledsoe had to come in, the offense was still essentially the same. griese/grossman ... ok, that may be a poor example ... lol (sorry , brophy) but the jist is the same, most qb's can at least manage a pro-style offense. although, with the proliferation of athletic qb's ... this type of stuff may not be that far off in the nfl. it is just going to take someone with foresight (or balls) to take that chance |
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locharion
Sophomore Member
Trips Right Ace Right 999 H Balloon
Posts: 203
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Post by locharion on Jan 17, 2007 14:58:50 GMT -6
I still believe Vick can succeed in the NFL at QB, but not in the stereotypical systems that most teams run. Look what Tennessee did with Vince Young. They studied how Young was successful at Texas and implemented that style of play. Vick has been a square peg that they have tried to stuff into a round hole. They have limited the things he does best and asked him to be someone that he is not. I don't think he will ever lead the league in passing or qb rating, but in the right system he can be a handful. With a due respect, you can't compare Vince Young and Michael Vick in the same category as QBs. Vince young played in a predominant West Coast style offense under Norm Chow with some shotgun concepts and did just fine this year. Michael Vick played under a West Coast hodge podge and was not consistent. Vince Young was nearly a 70% completition percentage QB in his college career. Michael Vick has never completed above 55% of his passes. Both are athletic and have tremendous physical gifts and talents. Accuracy though is a quality that Vick doesn't have and I don't believe ever will have as a QB. If Petrino can trade him or get him to be a RB, then Vick would be a football asset instead of an economincal one. |
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Post by coachdawhip on Jan 17, 2007 17:09:48 GMT -6
I believe Schaub never plays again in Atlanta, our number 3 QB is DJ Shockley! Vick has a high winning %, nobody besides Dan Reeves, has been able to use his talent in the sense is any HC should get the max out of his players. Vick has a 100 million dollar contract Petrino 25, No Vick, Blank has no fans in the stands, he knows this Atlanta is no Green Bay or Pittsburgh, where we love our franchises, most of our city is fair-weather fans, you need a name to put buts in the seats. If Vick is good at running let him run, if Vick is good at throwing deep do so.
Even as a coach, from year to year it's things in my playbook I won't use because of my kids, it's the same way in college and the pros. Football isn't rocket science, it's about adapting to works well with you and your kids.
And for all the talk of Vick last year our big-money defense was horrible!. Glad to see Mike Zimmer here.
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Post by ccscoach on Jan 17, 2007 19:25:40 GMT -6
I know Stefan Laflour was not vick but he didn't stand in the pocket like brohm Petrino was very successfully with him and i think his skill set was similar to vicks as far as throwing the football...Obviously vick is more a better athlete. I believe Petrino also had Brunell who was a runner when he was the Jags.....Either way it will be interesting to watch.
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 17, 2007 19:57:46 GMT -6
When Petrino had Lefors he ran a healthy mix of zone read and some option and a lot more in the way of bootlegs and action passes. Lefors threw primary action passes and 3-step drops and I think led the nation in passing efficiency. Brohm's skill set was a more traditional Pro-style (think Brady/Manning type) with a lot of dropbacks and straight play action.
I anticipate that Petrino will try to play to Vick's strengths but he needs to develop as a passer. The Falcons actually did some zone read this past year (which is one reason Vick had 1000 yards rushing!) but Vick has also had some injury problems. The bottom line is that Vick has not developed as a passer--the man has zero touch. This is one of his problems for throwing high percentage 3-step stuff. If Petrino can get a decent QB Coach (this is the plan every year, no?) maybe Vick can develop a bit.
I do agree that it'd be fascinating to see Vick and the Falcons develop as their base set some kind of spread gun 3WR 1TE (they have an excellent TE) set involving zone reads, option, and jets (tog style!) with a little bit more sophisticated passing but I still think at the NFL level you'd need to be able to do a bit more in the passing game than Vick has been able to, or at least do it more consistently. It's also tough because the Falcons have not been able to develop consistent receivers either with Vick's inconsistent play. I also get the sense that Vick is not that much more accurate when he is on the run, he simply because more dangerous as a run/pass threat.
This year will be a big test for everyone. If the Falcons don't show improvement then they will probably float the idea of a Vick trade--I'm sure someone like Oakland or Washington will overvalue him and take him--or maybe Petrino will go back to college Saban style and wish he hadn't dipped his toe back into NFL waters.
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