|
Post by coachwells on Jul 7, 2007 20:43:12 GMT -6
Now I know you must learn everything you can about football but that is not what I'm asking here. If you wanted to be an OC at the college level what offense would you study. I like all the high school offenses a lot more then what most college and pros use but if you wanted to move up to the big leagues then what offense would you study and expect to be used within the next 5 to 10 years. I should be landing a GA position at a DIV. III school within the next few years and just wanted to start learning now and not just learn the stuff we do here. I currently play Safety but played QB in high school and like the offensive side of the game much more.
Very simple question. What offense would you study more than others for the college level?
|
|
|
Post by tvt50 on Jul 7, 2007 20:51:07 GMT -6
I would study Pro-Style offenses if I were you. Where do you play in Southwest VA?
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jul 7, 2007 21:27:16 GMT -6
Very simple question---Very simple answer--DON'T LOOK AT IT THAT WAY AT ALL. It has to be organic. You can't try to manufacture an offensive philosophy based on an outcome. You need to let "your" offense grow and evolve from you.
Just like all defenses have A gap, b gap, c gap, force players, cutback players, option responsibilities, and coverage responsibilities, all offenses have certain fundamental principles that are universal.
I would say that you need to look for ways to get favorable personnel match ups, attack the defense where it is softest,be able to protect the QB, emphasize player strenghts, constantly put pressure on the D, both come from behind, and protect a lead and be able to be absorbed by the kids in whatever offense you have.
|
|
|
Post by touchdowng on Jul 7, 2007 21:36:01 GMT -6
A very simple question that requires a very complex answer. Or at least, a complex analysis.
Let's start with a simple question for analysis sake.
What are your head coach's goals?
Is he a defensive coach who wants to move the chains, eat clock, score in a conservative fasion, and use his defense and field position to succeed - Like a Bill Parcells?
Is he a coach who wants to put points on the board in a quick fashion and win in scoring contests if needed - Like a Steve Spurrier?
I think you can win either way - and both coaches have proven this over time as have other coaches.
You'd better look at what your HC wants and what kind of athletes you have available to you and be realistic.
If you want to move up the NCAA ranks, you'll want to win - irregardless of whatever "O" you end up running.
To give you an answer to your original question....
I'd study the offense that you believe in the most because there will be times when it backfires on you and you will have to have faith and belief to work through those hard times. If you stay in the game, as a coach long enough, you will have your share of backfires and breakdowns. But that's coaching.
|
|
|
Post by coachwells on Jul 7, 2007 21:36:25 GMT -6
I would study Pro-Style offenses if I were you. Where do you play in Southwest VA? Emory and Henry College, we have a great coach now in Coach Don Montgomery. One of the greatest men I have ever been around. And for the other replies: You guys are so right, it is just so hard for me not to read into different offenses and fall in love with them and then I just try to learn everything I can and end up scribbling some x's and o's down in a notebook on that offense. Its like I'm in love with a new O every other week. I try to just read material on motivation, play calling, and the likes but I always find myself sitting down on drawing up some new plays. I just love this game so much and there is so much to learn.
|
|
|
Post by coachd5085 on Jul 8, 2007 6:44:33 GMT -6
Coach Wells--then you are well on your way to developing your OWN "organic" offense, so don't sweat it. Pretty soon, you will be scribbling down one thing, an idea from something you scribbled last week will pop into your head..and BAM..you have "YOUR" offense.
Football is funny like that. There are rumors and legends as to how different "offenses" evolved. For instance, I have heard that the Wishbone developed because a Straight T fullback was getting tired, and started to creep up to the line of scrimmage to to compensate. I will almost guarantee you that the origins of the new "hot offense", the zone read from the gun, was that a QB somewhere missed an exchange, kept it on his own, and BAM...the zone read was born.
So don't worry about studying "an offense" In fact, I would spend more time studying defenses...learn what to attack, and your offense will just develop.
|
|
|
Post by coachwells on Jul 8, 2007 9:06:55 GMT -6
Great advice coachd5085, I have enjoyed everything I have read on this forum and you guys are so helpful. Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by tvt50 on Jul 8, 2007 11:39:24 GMT -6
Stick with Coach Montgomery and you will be fine!!! I played at Clinch Valley so I am very familar with the area!
|
|
|
Post by tog on Jul 8, 2007 12:06:07 GMT -6
Very simple question---Very simple answer--DON'T LOOK AT IT THAT WAY AT ALL. It has to be organic. You can't try to manufacture an offensive philosophy based on an outcome. You need to let "your" offense grow and evolve from you. Just like all defenses have A gap, b gap, c gap, force players, cutback players, option responsibilities, and coverage responsibilities, all offenses have certain fundamental principles that are universal. I would say that you need to look for ways to get favorable personnel match ups, attack the defense where it is softest,be able to protect the QB, emphasize player strenghts, constantly put pressure on the D, both come from behind, and protect a lead and be able to be absorbed by the kids in whatever offense you have. awesome post the problem with just looking at one thing and then copying it is you will not see variances within that that "fit" you better
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on Jul 8, 2007 12:36:19 GMT -6
If I wanted to be an OC on the college level...
1. I would study blocking schemes... find out which would be the most advantageous, based on the type of kids we'd be able to attract to our program. D1... I get the best of the best... I'm going power / zone... D2 / D3... I'm going Option / Pass? -- Zone? -- Power? -- Option? -- Pass Blocking?
2. I would study schemes... why they are ran, what are their advantages vs their disadvantages... -- Wing T - strong run and PA, tough long yardage and come from behind offense. -- Run & Shoot - numbers game, few plays, can't handle the blitz and man coverage, game over. -- Pro I - Balanced... A potpourri of opportunities, power, option, passing, its familiarity is its greatest asset, and liability. -- Spread Option - 2nd level blocking, assignment football... however, you'd think collegiate teams would be disciplined enough as well as fast enough to erase all advantages.
3. I would study defenses... what causes conflicts, what do coverages give up? Tom Flores once said you'd need 18 men to completely defend a football field... given that you only get 11, you have to give up something.
50 - 40- 30's - What do they give up in the run game... how is the passing game defended?
Cover 0,1,2,3,4,6 - What do they give up vs what do they protect?
In retrospect... its so much bigger than learning an offense... its learning the game... reads, keys, angles, gaps...
But if I had to start anywhere, it would be understanding the O-line... by knowing their job, you'll understand what defenses are trying to accomplish, and the why backfields will do, what they need to do.
|
|
|
Post by tog on Jul 8, 2007 12:39:53 GMT -6
excellent khalfie!
|
|
|
Post by coachjd on Jul 8, 2007 14:20:12 GMT -6
Great reply Khalfie.
I would get a strong understanding of blocking schemes in both the run game and pass protections. You can draw you can draw all the routes in the dirt you want, but if you cannot protect the QB you will be in trouble.
How do these schemes fit into all the different fronts, stunts, twists, blitz and coverages you will see.
|
|
|
Post by groundchuck on Jul 8, 2007 14:54:03 GMT -6
If I wanted to be an OC on the college level... 1. I would study blocking schemes... find out which would be the most advantageous, based on the type of kids we'd be able to attract to our program. D1... I get the best of the best... I'm going power / zone... D2 / D3... I'm going Option / Pass? -- Zone? -- Power? -- Option? -- Pass Blocking? 2. I would study schemes... why they are ran, what are their advantages vs their disadvantages... -- Wing T - strong run and PA, tough long yardage and come from behind offense. -- Run & Shoot - numbers game, few plays, can't handle the blitz and man coverage, game over. -- Pro I - Balanced... A potpourri of opportunities, power, option, passing, its familiarity is its greatest asset, and liability. -- Spread Option - 2nd level blocking, assignment football... however, you'd think collegiate teams would be disciplined enough as well as fast enough to erase all advantages. 3. I would study defenses... what causes conflicts, what do coverages give up? Tom Flores once said you'd need 18 men to completely defend a football field... given that you only get 11, you have to give up something. 50 - 40- 30's - What do they give up in the run game... how is the passing game defended? Cover 0,1,2,3,4,6 - What do they give up vs what do they protect? In retrospect... its so much bigger than learning an offense... its learning the game... reads, keys, angles, gaps... But if I had to start anywhere, it would be understanding the O-line... by knowing their job, you'll understand what defenses are trying to accomplish, and the why backfields will do, what they need to do. Excellent post. Also I think you should look at the talent base you are recruiting from.
|
|
|
Post by coachwells on Jul 8, 2007 22:11:55 GMT -6
Thanks again guys for your feedback. When you talk about studying defenses and what they give up and how to attack them would it help more to read a book or film on a defense (by a defensive guy) or to read a book or watch a film from an offensive guy breaking a defense down?
|
|
|
Post by tog on Jul 8, 2007 22:19:16 GMT -6
yes
|
|
|
Post by coachwells on Jul 8, 2007 22:37:59 GMT -6
If you were replying to my post I was asking one or the other. Sorry if I was unclear. Thanks
|
|
|
Post by tog on Jul 8, 2007 22:39:50 GMT -6
i was answering
|
|
|
Post by coachjaz on Jul 8, 2007 22:43:28 GMT -6
That is exactly what happened to Coach Rich Rod.
|
|
|
Post by khalfie on Jul 8, 2007 23:38:39 GMT -6
Thanks again guys for your feedback. When you talk about studying defenses and what they give up and how to attack them would it help more to read a book or film on a defense (by a defensive guy) or to read a book or watch a film from an offensive guy breaking a defense down? Which ever way you learn best... and as Tog was saying... both won't hurt... I am a book reader... get to take my time, read the experts notes, internalize it at my own pace... But my greatest learning opportunity, was as an assistant under Alec Anderson... as the Frosh coach, I would sit in on the break down of film of the upcoming opponents... we'd put all their formations up on the board, chart their areas of attack, and discuss what we'd defend, and how we'd defend it... Then we'd chalk up their base defense, where they like to bring pressure from, and how we could beat that... Very elementary... but it was spot on... and very helpful in deciphering what defenses were trying to do.
|
|
tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
|
Post by tedseay on Jul 9, 2007 4:21:09 GMT -6
coachwells: You could do a lot worse than starting at the beginning of the archives on the site linked below, and reading all the way through. And take notes...there will be a quiz. smartfootball.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
Post by Coach Bruce on Jul 9, 2007 8:04:42 GMT -6
Ted how do ya get to the very begginning of the site. I see the archives but in the 1st artixcle I read it refers back to past articles. Is there a way to start from a true beginning?
|
|
tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
|
Post by tedseay on Jul 9, 2007 8:21:47 GMT -6
Ted how do ya get to the very begginning of the site. I see the archives but in the 1st artixcle I read it refers back to past articles. Is there a way to start from a true beginning? Broooooce: In the beginning was the Spread No Huddle Attack site, and it was darned good: nohuddle.freeservers.com/oldpage.htmlIt contains what I think is still the best short presentation on pass pro schemes I have ever seen. Then came Blog Mark 1: sky.prohosting.com/cbbrown/oldindex.html#111937779620014868It ran from March 2004-August 2005, and was very good indeed. Among other things, it introduced the football coaching world to the Sharpe Ratio -- must reading. Finally, you have the current site address already, and previous articles back to the beginning of this version can be accessed on the right margin near the top of the blog...
|
|
|
Post by coachwells on Jul 9, 2007 14:53:02 GMT -6
Oh, it was me that misunderstood then. Sorry.
|
|
|
Post by spreadattack on Jul 10, 2007 7:37:57 GMT -6
Well, thanks to Ted for the plug on the site. Much of the best information is pilfered from other sources, so don't worry about just being me. And it's funny (and I'm glad) that people still think the Spread No-Huddle site is worthwhile: it is approaching 7 years old, which is prehistoric in internet terms. Anyway, all the specific advice on this site is good. The big thing is that you should always be focused on learning. The calender year for a football coach naturally breaks up how your learning will go. During the season, you have a set of things you do, and your day to day challenges are to simplify and teach and also react to defenses. This will be some of your best practical learning, and you will cut through the theory to the bone of what works and what doesn't. After the season is over, I really suggest being as ecumenical as possible in your approach. Read offensive treatises, defensive treatises, study a system you don't know anything about, and find out who the new coaching "chatter" is all about and find out what they are doing. Read NFL playbooks, study NFL film, study wing-T cutups, bear defensive books, etc. You can learn from it all and the idea is to open up your mind a bit. Also, don't just gloss over things, take some time to doodle and think about why each system has been successful and is still around, or why certain defenses continue to give people trouble. Then you will move into presumably a spring football kind of phase (or some "work-out" equivalent). There you will get back to what you already do and it can be a time to experiment. Then over the summer you do what the coaches above have described and let your offense grow organically. Anyway, the idea is just that, mid-season, it's not really as fruitful to go studying the Wing-T or the run and shoot if you're a wishbone guy, but in the off-season it might be the best way to expose you to new ideas rather than read another wishbone book. The old debate: Fox or Hedgehog? - Multa novit vulpes, verum echinus unum magnum ("The fox knows many things, but the hedgehog knows one big thing.") en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hedgehog_and_the_Fox
|
|
tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
|
Post by tedseay on Jul 10, 2007 8:22:27 GMT -6
Chris: Study like the fox, coach like the hedgehog...
|
|
|
Post by coachcalande on Jul 10, 2007 17:22:14 GMT -6
Now I know you must learn everything you can about football but that is not what I'm asking here. If you wanted to be an OC at the college level what offense would you study. I like all the high school offenses a lot more then what most college and pros use but if you wanted to move up to the big leagues then what offense would you study and expect to be used within the next 5 to 10 years. I should be landing a GA position at a DIV. III school within the next few years and just wanted to start learning now and not just learn the stuff we do here. I currently play Safety but played QB in high school and like the offensive side of the game much more. Very simple question. What offense would you study more than others for the college level? quite honestly, Id start with the single wing and work my way toward more modern attacks. I read once where an NFL coach said he learned more about football studying the single wing for one year than he had in 30 years of coaching. interesting to say the least.
|
|
tedseay
Sophomore Member
Posts: 165
|
Post by tedseay on Jul 11, 2007 4:47:32 GMT -6
quite honestly, Id start with the single wing and work my way toward more modern attacks. And if you decide to go that route: www.singlewingfootball.com/...the gold standard.
|
|