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Post by wingt74 on Jan 3, 2008 15:19:27 GMT -6
My favorite part is "Despite being santioned by the NFL for cheating..."
This should be "Coaching Staff" of the year anyway.
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Post by theprez98 on Jan 3, 2008 15:28:00 GMT -6
It's like being suspended for 4 games for steroids, and still going to the Pro Bowl. Oh wait! That's already happened.
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Post by Yash on Jan 3, 2008 16:47:31 GMT -6
I'm not going to complain about Belicheck and his spygate scandal, for one I don't think what he did was all that terrible because I think other teams around the league were doing it, he was just the first one to get caught. He went 16-0, hasn't been done before so he deserves it. I was a little disappointed that McCarthey didn't get it because I"m from Green Bay and a huge packer fan. I think he did more with less. Belicheck wasn't exactly playing with an empty cupboard. i don't think Green Bay was either, but they weren't picked to win the division let alone get a first round bye.
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Post by bopper235 on Jan 3, 2008 17:51:07 GMT -6
But we all know that spygate is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to all the "Questionable" things the Patriots have done over the years.
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Post by phantom on Jan 3, 2008 17:59:14 GMT -6
But we all know that spygate is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to all the "Questionable" things the Patriots have done over the years. I'm with Yash as a Packers fan but how do we all know that Spygate is just the tip of the iceberg? 16-0 is 16-0. |
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Post by Yash on Jan 3, 2008 19:14:32 GMT -6
I don't get why everyone hates the patriots. I love watching them play. They have a bunch of guys that other teams wouldn't want or utilize the way they do. How many teams are lining up for Kevin Faulks service? yet he produces as a reciever out of the backfield. I'm a packer fan and would love to see the packers win the super bowl, but if they can't, I want the patriots too. Everyone seems to hate them. Why though? because they win? Because they play hard. How many people out there wish they had a coach who didn't take his foot off the pedal in the 4th quarter. I don't get it. Other than spy gate what are all these questionable things that they have been doing all these years? I don't hear about a whole lot of patriots sitting along side the bengals in jail. They keep clean, they are decent guys. I want to know why everyone hates them.
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Post by stud17 on Jan 3, 2008 19:22:06 GMT -6
I think Belichick is a football genius. In an era of the salary cap and free agency, it's pretty remarkable to have such a dynasty that the Patriots have.
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Post by wingt74 on Jan 4, 2008 7:12:45 GMT -6
Still fellas, all that being said. The NFL said they cheated...then the NFL said he is the best coach in the league.
I just seems wrong.
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Post by olinecoach61 on Jan 4, 2008 8:01:35 GMT -6
Life isn't fair and sometimes cheaters win, I can only hope that karma catches up to him.
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Post by FlexboneOne on Jan 4, 2008 8:53:52 GMT -6
I think Belichick is a football genius. In an era of the salary cap and free agency, it's pretty remarkable to have such a dynasty that the Patriots have. He wasnt a "genius" in Cleveland, was he? Seems to me it's about having Tom Brady more than anything else. |
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coacher
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Post by coacher on Jan 4, 2008 10:11:03 GMT -6
He got caught cheating as he was coaching. He won an individual award for it. I think he would have been unanimous this year if it wasn't for the cheating. Personally, I would not have voted for him because of the message it is sending to players and coaches alike. You can say everybody cheates but doesn't get caught. Which to some degree is probably true, but when you get caught and still win the individual prize at the end of the year, what kind of message does that send? Later
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Post by CVBears on Jan 4, 2008 13:23:10 GMT -6
I think that Belichick is coach of the decade in the NFL. Please tell me a better coach that has something to show for it. He obviously coaches his coaches and get the most out of them. Then he turns and gets the most out of his players. I have been in many a meeting where coaches say that great coaches take players and make them just a notch better than what they are (growth and player development). In the NFL, players are usually for themselves only and rare is the case where a team plays as a team. Furthermore, Belichick has his team playing as a team. The players buy into the systems and everything he says and does. And I don't think that he was a "genius" in Cleveland. If memory serves, it was after his days in Cleveland that he started cultivating his relationship with Bill Walsh. Belichick then started to define himself and elevate himself as a coach. He definitely has the pieces of the puzzle together and continues to do so year after year
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Post by spreadattack on Jan 4, 2008 13:29:59 GMT -6
Yeah I read an article that he did a great deal of soul searching after his failure in Cleveland. Said he only changed certain things, but he rethought his whole approach and that failure no doubt likely made him better. Coaching in the NFL is not easy, though only a fraction of it might be for Xs and Os or even player development reasons.
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Post by cmow5 on Jan 4, 2008 13:57:08 GMT -6
The only thing that kind of bugs me about this is every where you look you see someone talking about They really play as team and everyone buys into the system. Of course they do they are 16-0. I dont think if they where 0-16 the team atmosphere would be there. So I guess my question is what came first The team mentality and buying into the system and then the success or the success and then the team and buying into the system?
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Post by coachsky on Jan 4, 2008 14:31:28 GMT -6
Belichek is the man! His personnel changes each year and he keeps winning.
He out-coaches the other sideline each week. Their preparation is impeccable.
I find the cheating charges laughable. Being from the Seattle area we have watched Mike Holgrem cover he mouth with his play sheet every time he calls a play - WHY? He knows the other team is trying to steal his call. Ridiculous.
Read the Education of a Coach and you'll learn why Belichech is heads and tails the best coach in football. He doesn't give a hoot about his public persona - he wants respect from his players and coaching staff and that's it.
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Post by tye2021 on Jan 4, 2008 15:19:58 GMT -6
Belichek is the man! His personnel changes each year and he keeps winning. Best coach at finding players that FIT in his system. Other coaches are looking for who they think has the most talent. Belicheck looks for the the guy with the right talent and intelligence to play within his system. |
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coacher
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Post by coacher on Jan 4, 2008 15:59:29 GMT -6
I agree with how good of a coach he is, I agree with him being the coach of the decade but, I don't think he deserves individual recognition the year he got caught cheating. In my mind it is sending the wrong message. I also agree with cmow5. We all know it's easy to teach and preach buy-in when you are winning. When things go south, that's if they ever will, I promise you certain players will start to become themselves once again.
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Post by phantom on Jan 4, 2008 16:20:19 GMT -6
I agree with how good of a coach he is, I agree with him being the coach of the decade but, I don't think he deserves individual recognition the year he got caught cheating. In my mind it is sending the wrong message. I also agree with cmow5. We all know it's easy to teach and preach buy-in when you are winning. When things go south, that's if they ever will, I promise you certain players will start to become themselves once again. Cheating in the NFL? I'm shocked! SHOCKED! I'm not a Pats fan. In fact, I'd have loved to see Mike McCarthy win it and most years he would. The fact is, though, that Belichek is the best coach in the game right now and has been for a few years. The team has bought in to the team concept. You don't hear bitching about carries or catches, even from guys who were considered malcontents on other teams. The team has good guys who don't get in trouble. They lose players and find the right guys to plug in. To paraphrase Herb Brooks in "Miracle", they're not looking for the best players, they're looking for the right players. A couple of years ago they also lost both coordinators and they're still there. The same thing happened to Oklahoma and Florida State and they haven't been the same since. Did he luck out with Brady? Of course. I've said before and firmly believe that luck plays a role in being good and, with luck, Belickek is the best. |
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coacher
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Post by coacher on Jan 4, 2008 17:00:05 GMT -6
Phantom - I agree with everything you say except...... He cheated like probably everybody else, but he got caught. Do they deserve the win the superbowl.....of course. Does he deserve to get coach of the year....in "my" opinion no becasue he got caught, CAUGHT. It is sending the wrong message.
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Post by phantom on Jan 4, 2008 17:04:08 GMT -6
Phantom - I agree with everything you say except...... He cheated like probably everybody else, but he got caught. Do they deserve the win the superbowl.....of course. Does he deserve to get coach of the year....in "my" opinion no becasue he got caught, CAUGHT. It is sending the wrong message. I'd agree with you in HS or college ball, where teaching character is part of the job. Pro football is strictly about winning. |
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 4, 2008 17:15:33 GMT -6
I'd like to see how well he would do with the 49ers or the Dolphins. Getting them back to what they were in the 80's...now that would be an accomplishment. I think a monkey could go 16-0 with the team the Pats have this year. And I'm from NE.
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Post by cmow5 on Jan 4, 2008 17:22:14 GMT -6
I would rather see my dolphins go back to the dolphins of the 70's rather then the 80's. JMO. What about Billick to Miami. I would love to see that.
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coacher
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Post by coacher on Jan 4, 2008 18:11:19 GMT -6
I agree that being a role model to your players is a huge part of being a HS and college coach. But when you are in the big leagues, like it or not, in any sport, you are a role model. Coach Belichick is a role model to anyone who aspires to become a leader in any organization. NFL is about winning and is a business. But since they are underneath the microscope of the media, they have to accept responsiblity as role models, maybe not to their players, hopefully so, but to the millions watching their every move. That is why I don't think he should be recognized as coach of the year. And again, this is just my opinion. I hear and see everything that has been said in this thread.
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Post by tye2021 on Jan 4, 2008 19:42:02 GMT -6
As I recall the Pats weren't that great when he took over. Not horrible...but not great. Todays team is a product of what he and the NE orginization has put together over the years. They are 16-0 not because of the talent he put together this year but because of the talent he started putting together from the moment that he arrived.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 4, 2008 19:49:56 GMT -6
Actually if you take a look at how many of his draft picks are on the team now it's a very low number....So he hasn't put together anything. Maybe Crafts money built the team not the coach
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Post by ajreaper on Jan 4, 2008 20:12:34 GMT -6
WOW more then a few really stupid comments- if a monkey could coach any team to an undefeated season then the NFL is a complete joke and it's not. When a team has been as successful as NE it's a little bit of everyone and everything- players, coaches, owners, fans- all play a part but only one person can get coach of the year and he most certainly deserves it. What ever the reason his team is 16-0 and he's the coach so he's coach of the year not hard to understand that. If they were 0-16 no one would be blaming anyone but him.
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Post by Yash on Jan 4, 2008 21:06:14 GMT -6
No one can say that Kraft's money is responsible for this team. The NFL has a salary cap giving everyone equal opportunities to build their team. I think what makes him such a great coach is doing what he does with guys that wouldn't necessarily be stars on other teams. Was Wes Welker a probowler before the pats got him? Does any other team in the NFL want Kevin Faulk as a 1 or 2 running back? Who else gets TD catches out of their Linebackers on a regular basis and is Mike Vrabrel a probowler on any other team? And I don't think a monkey goes 16-0 with this team. Also I think that the success bellicheck has is shown through the amount of coaches have stemmed from his program. With Crennel almost a playoff team in Clevelend. Mangini in New York, Weis at Notre Dame. Overall they have a pretty darn good staff so he knows coaching talent when he sees it as well.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 5, 2008 0:42:50 GMT -6
I did a little research. How this compares to every other team in the NFL I do not know but these numbers are not overly impressive and probably are no better than any other team in the league. Bellichek has drafted 69 players since 2000. 21 of them on still on the roster and 10 are starters. The whole o-line are NOT Pats draft picks. Stephen Neal and Dan Koppen were not drafted by the Patriots.
I don't understand why people say he knows talent. He doesn't know talent any better than the next nfl coach. Out of their 8 2007 draft picks only 3 remain on the team this year and only 1 (Meriweather) is on the active roster.
As for Welker there should be an investigation. No he wasn't a pro bowler but arguably Miami's best WR yet the Pats get him for pratically nothing? Somethin just isn't right there.
And yes I would wager alot of money on it that alomost every coach in the nfl could have coached the Pats to a 16-0 season.
All those coaches you named are offbreeds of whom?? That's right Bill Parcells. Give him the credit for creating this coaches not Bellicheat.
I don't.... but I see way to many coaches either taking the praise or the heat on the success of their team wayyyy to much. Coaches, beleive me...You ain't goin nowhere without the talent. The best coach in the world can only make a terrible team fair to average, not terrible to great. The mark of a great coach is what he can do with nothing. Not what he can do with superstars.
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Post by Yash on Jan 5, 2008 0:52:23 GMT -6
They gave up a second rounder for welker, thats not practically nothing. Teams don't give up Second rounders very easily. Although it was dumb for the dolphins to let him go. You saw what cam cameron did with the dolphins, you think he could go 16-0 with the pats?
Do people remember the team that Bellicheck won the first superbowl with? That was a Tom Brady who had only started 14 or so games. They had the great David Patten and Troy brown out at WR with Kevin Faulk and Antoine Smith at RB. In the secondary Otis smith and TeBucky Jones were starting. This is against a Rams offense that couldn't be stopped by anyone over those 3 years. So for everyone knocking bellicheck and his talent, hes won with a lot less talent. Maybe not 16-0, but no one has ever done that until they did it this year.
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Post by spos21ram on Jan 5, 2008 1:01:08 GMT -6
I think it was the lack of good coaching previous to Tom Brady that kept them from being great. Once Bledsoe got hurt they became very conservative with Brady and the Passing game. They threw short easy passes and several screens a game. Where was this with Bledsoe? If they were just as conservative with Bledsoe they would have been nearly just as good. That conservative play calling stuck. Why every team doesn't run the same offense I have no idea. No patience i guess. Only til this year with Moss did Brady start throwing deep more often. That why I truely beleive several QB's would be just as successful as Brady with this team and offense.
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