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Post by WB22 on Oct 30, 2007 12:52:31 GMT -6
Someone (smarter than myself) please go to this site... www.directsnapfootball.com...& tell me if this is a legal set. Can two players be under the center in position to take a snap ? |
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Post by gunslinger on Oct 30, 2007 13:03:10 GMT -6
I don't know if I am smarter than you or not but...
I have seen something similar to that before.
The QB's weren't actually under center.
They were turned at a 45 degree angle and really low. One of them would receive a short (very short) shotgun snap from the center (much like some fake punts).
Both QB's would turn their back to the defense at the snap and you couldn't tell who had the ball.
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Post by brophy on Oct 30, 2007 13:05:04 GMT -6
So, let me get this straight, you have TWO guys with their hands in another guy's crack?
Or is this more wildcat stuff?
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Post by coachnorm on Oct 30, 2007 13:13:12 GMT -6
It's definitely legal. I might question whether or not it is practical. We use a wildcat formation with a pair of backs about 2 foot behind the center that is similar but we certainly do not try to take an under center snap with 2.
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Post by eickst on Oct 30, 2007 14:00:29 GMT -6
I think the rule says that only ONE player may penetrate through the vertical plane of a player's waist. If they are both behind the center, then it would be legal. I don't think you can have two pairs of hands under the center though.
*EDIT* You know, after looking at that formation....I kinda like it!
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Post by dubber on Oct 30, 2007 15:07:12 GMT -6
Or is this more wildcat stuff? I'm guessing wildcat Very neat concept............is it too gimmicky to be a base (like polecat is), I dunno |
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Post by eickst on Oct 30, 2007 15:15:25 GMT -6
I don't think it's too gimmicky, it looks like you can run quite a few series out of it.
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Post by dubber on Oct 30, 2007 15:19:23 GMT -6
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Post by eickst on Oct 30, 2007 16:57:51 GMT -6
Hmmm.... I'm getting a lot of ideas here. I just read that book "Coaching the WingBone offense" and I wonder how a "wildcatted" wing-bone offense would look......
*EDIT* Oh, wait...it would look a lot like this lol
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Post by kboyd on Oct 30, 2007 20:23:19 GMT -6
After seeing this formation this afternoon I thought that I'd waste 10 minutes of practice trying it out for sh*ts & giggles and be damned if it didn't work great. The kids loved it and it gave the D fits. Might be something I add for a little change up, who knows.
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Post by CoachJohnsonMN on Oct 30, 2007 20:51:45 GMT -6
I had talked to a coach at a clinic last season and he had discussed how this was a main staple of his offense.
Formation:
-----SE--------------T---G---C---G---T----------------------SE
------------------------------L--R
---------------------------H---------H
The QB receiving the snap would place his hand under Center as usual and the other would place on the Center's butt with two fists (gave look of being under).
His top combinations:
1. L QB sneak as R drop backs for pass (double flare by H's)
(vice versa)
2. R drop backs for pass as L QB sneak
3. Speed option to both sides
4. Speed option to one side as other QB drops back
5. R executes speed option to right as L/H runs dive to weak A
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Post by timtheenchanter on Oct 31, 2007 8:00:06 GMT -6
You may want to post this question over on the Fed rules board. For those in Texas, Mass and College, by rule you can only have one person in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap (7.1.3.b.1. ex2, FR 96)
2. One player may be between his scrimmage line and the backs if in a
position to receive a hand-to-hand snap from between the snapper’s
legs. When in such position, that player may receive the snap himself
or it may go directly to any player legally a back [S19].
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Post by justwingit on Oct 31, 2007 9:52:56 GMT -6
Bear Bryant actually tried to use this formation when he first started. Ran dive and keep. It was illegal to have two QB's under center. But I don't see why it would illegal if their hands weren't under center.
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Post by eickst on Oct 31, 2007 10:50:40 GMT -6
You may want to post this question over on the Fed rules board. For those in Texas, Mass and College, by rule you can only have one person in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap (7.1.3.b.1. ex2, FR 96) 2. One player may be between his scrimmage line and the backs if in a position to receive a hand-to-hand snap from between the snapper’s legs. When in such position, that player may receive the snap himself or it may go directly to any player legally a back [S19]. But if they are back a couple of feet and it isn't a hand to hand exchange, more like a soft shotgun snap then it should be legal, right? |
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Post by timtheenchanter on Oct 31, 2007 10:58:50 GMT -6
At that point, you are asking the officials to make a judgment call on how far back is far enough. A yard would probably be safe, much closer than that and you are inviting a flag. The rulebook doesn't provide guidance on a minimum legal distance, so it becomes a matter of interpretation.
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Post by mitch on Oct 31, 2007 12:57:50 GMT -6
I know its not the original lineup of the plays diagrammed but it looks almost like the old sidesaddle formation to me. The QB has his hands under center but his feet are perpendicular to the LOS, much like they would be if he took his first two steps to run the midline. He can either take the snap and go through the normal execution of the play, or pull his hands back at the last second to allow a shotgun snap to the Tailback. There are usually a myriad of misdirections they do off of this just like the diagrams.
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Post by coachorr on Nov 4, 2007 3:01:57 GMT -6
Why would it not be legal? Seven on the LOS. Unless there is some rule created to specifically address the 'double Qb" issue I do not see it as a problem.
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Post by Tooch43 on Nov 6, 2007 20:54:23 GMT -6
Looks like the old Irish Box formation. You can run triple spin out of it.
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Post by bcurrier on Nov 27, 2007 3:01:06 GMT -6
You may want to post this question over on the Fed rules board. For those in Texas, Mass and College, by rule you can only have one person in position to receive a hand-to-hand snap (7.1.3.b.1. ex2, FR 96) 2. One player may be between his scrimmage line and the backs if in a position to receive a hand-to-hand snap from between the snapper’s legs. When in such position, that player may receive the snap himself or it may go directly to any player legally a back [S19]. In a broadcast game last season (I can't remember the opponent right now), Arkansas ran a play from a set like the one described -- with two players apparently under center. The offense broke the huddle shoulder to shoulder and lined up ankle to ankle at the LOS. The RB who was the 2nd player under center was a smaller kid who hopped from the huddle to the LOS in a crouched position so he couldn't be seen behind the big O-line. He started out squatted down to the right of the QB, and when he received the snap, he ran a sweep to the left. The play went 30-40 yards for a TD -- no penalty, so apparently it's legal at the NCAA level. It was a thing of beauty -- from the breaking of the huddle to the end of the play. After seeing it, I put it in with my JV team. I lined up double tight with a wingback to the opponent's sideline to help obscure the RB from the view of their coaches. The play was effective for a crucial 3rd & short situation. The kids loved it and constantly asked to run it. Eickst is right -- according to the NFHS rulebook, only one player can have his hands penetrating the midline of the center. I just had the QB make it look like his normal stance for receiving the snap without putting his hands all the way under center. And of course, I discussed it with the officials ahead of time. |
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Post by Coach Huey on Nov 27, 2007 7:19:40 GMT -6
In a broadcast game last season (I can't remember the opponent right now), Arkansas ran a play from a set like the one described -- with two players apparently under center. The offense broke the huddle shoulder to shoulder and lined up ankle to ankle at the LOS. The RB who was the 2nd player under center was a smaller kid who hopped from the huddle to the LOS in a crouched position so he couldn't be seen behind the big O-line. He started out squatted down to the right of the QB, and when he received the snap, he ran a sweep to the left. The play went 30-40 yards for a TD -- no penalty, so apparently it's legal at the NCAA level. It was a thing of beauty -- from the breaking of the huddle to the end of the play. Only 1 player was under center. Fish was 'hiding' behind the guard. |
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