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Post by jg78 on Jul 13, 2017 21:30:42 GMT -6
How do you folks prioritize your players as far as playing offense, defense, or both?
My approach is that unless you have an offensive player that you can't do without - such as a QB or a hoss RB who's going to get a ton of carries - that defense has priority over personnel. The player may play both ways, but if it's one or the other it's definitely defense. I say this because the offense chooses the point of attack and any talent deficiencies are more easily exploited on the defensive side of the ball for that reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 0:20:30 GMT -6
IME, the best way is something like this:
Get the staff together and hold a draft.
Offense gets the top 2 picks for QB and C.
Defense gets the next 11.
Offense then picks the next 4 OL and can recycle defensive starters to round out the starters at the remaining 5 skill positions.
The rest of the players are taught a position on each side of the ball and slotted in accordingly.
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Post by realdawg on Jul 14, 2017 3:52:42 GMT -6
Generally speaking, the offense gets the QB, RB, and any special skill kids they gotta have, and then D gets what they want, kinda like coacharnold said. Another way to think about it is offense gets first pick of skill kids, defense gets first pick of linemen. But we dont set down and hold a draft or anything, it just kinda works itself out once we get started. With that being said we dont have enough kids to strictly play one side of the ball. We try to 2 platoon as much as we can, but players still have to learn both sides and generally speaking, offensive starters are the 2s on D and vice versa.
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Post by **** on Jul 14, 2017 4:12:32 GMT -6
Offense gets best kid on the team that fits the scheme they run. Spread = QB, UBSW = RB, etc...
Defense gets next best 11.
Fill in from there.
If you're a small school that has to have everybody play both ways... Then the star offensive kids back up on defense needs to be like the 12th best kid on defense, so you can put him in to give the star offensive kid a break on defense at times.
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Post by blackknight on Jul 14, 2017 13:11:18 GMT -6
We used to set the starters on both side of the ball without worrying about who was going both ways. Then we would look at who was still on the board who could possibly relieve a two-way starter.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 13:14:16 GMT -6
Offense gets 4, Defense gets 11, Offense gets 7.
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Post by coachbdud on Jul 14, 2017 13:17:56 GMT -6
How do you folks prioritize your players as far as playing offense, defense, or both? My approach is that unless you have an offensive player that you can't do without - such as a QB or a hoss RB who's going to get a ton of carries - that defense has priority over personnel. The player may play both ways, but if it's one or the other it's definitely defense. I say this because the offense chooses the point of attack and any talent deficiencies are more easily exploited on the defensive side of the ball for that reason. What we do, and what i believe in is you have to have your best on Defense just like you my exceptions are starting Qb (ours would easily be our best FS this year) and a Stud RB (even then, our guy played a lot of defense in the playoffs because he wanted to win) This is especially true at OL/DL every now and then we have a kid who is a stud and does both but for the most part, the last few years I have given our most talented kids to our DL coach and i play OL with the island of misfit toys. This year will be a little different in that our numbers are lower (we are better up front, just less bodies) so realistically ALL of them are going to have to at least be able to play at least a drive a game on both sides of the ball My personal feelings have always been that with less talent on O worst case scenario we punt and can play field position/defense worse talent in on D and we give up a TD. Us scoring 0 is better than them scoring 7. I feel we can still be successful with lesser parts on O, but we NEED our best kids in on D to get stops |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2017 13:32:26 GMT -6
One other thing I forgot: if you have low numbers and want to use the draft thing, give each side 3 picks:
Offense gets the first 2 for QB/featured position and C (because you never want to lose a game because of bad snaps).
Defense gets the next 2 for a couple of leaders/studs for key spots.
Then offense drafts the next best guy left.
Then defense does the same.
From there, you work together to slot the others where you need them on both sides with defense getting priority in any tiebreakers.
Then you work out a substitution plan for how you're going to rotate kids to keep the starters from getting worn out. Ideally you have 1-2 serviceable skill guys and 1-2 linemen you can rotate both ways to spell your starters. They don't need to be studs, just players who won't get penalties or blow assignments. So hopefully you have around 19-21 decent football players. Hopefully...
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Post by newt21 on Jul 14, 2017 13:35:58 GMT -6
In a perfect world we would have the offense take a QB, RB, and 2 OL, rest to starting defense. However some kids are just defensive players just like some kids are just offensive players, so we could end up with a stronger offense or defense based on the natural fit of our kids. At our school we're also working with only 2 coaches so there is no two platoon.
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Post by s73 on Jul 14, 2017 14:24:39 GMT -6
We used to set the starters on both side of the ball without worrying about who was going both ways. Then we would look at who was still on the board who could possibly relieve a two-way starter. I'm with this. We are a small school so we are looking at getting all the best kids on the field on both sides of the ball. Then we carefully evaluate if someone can replace them on one side of the ball. One year had to play 9 kids both ways b/c the junior class was awful. The best we've ever done is about 5 kids both ways. This year we're going to be looking at 7 kids both ways but we do have some rotational relief for 4 of them so that should help quite a bit. FOR US it comes down to do we trust the lesser kid b/c we are trying to keep more talented kids fresh? If not, then we play the best & demand mental toughness. Our kids are used to it. Not all kids / schools can do that. It's a mindset. JMO. |
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Post by tippecanoe41 on Jul 14, 2017 20:39:45 GMT -6
We're definitely not close to two platoon. We go through O and D and put the best at every position. If a guy is a 2-way starter, we look at #2's in his poisitons. Let's say on Offense he's an A and replacement is B and on Defense he's A and his replacement is A-, we're more likley to say he'll play offense because the tradeoff is minimal the other way. But, we try to be in pretty great condition, and hope that we can start both ways and then get some reps off here and there based on down and distance if there's a guy who we really want to have on the field every play.
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Post by dubber on Jul 14, 2017 22:43:26 GMT -6
I do find this conversation interesting, but more from a "what do you value" standpoint with respect to either side of the ball.
I think I'd rather have a good defense than a good offense, but the two are rarely exclusive. If you have a stud on one side and struggle on the other side, but you won't play him both ways.......you aren't 2 platooning, you're 2 pla-screwing yourself.
Now, as far as what we value:
For us, we MUST have a TE (wow, that's changed since the start of the decade). Our second best RB and our best WR got moved there this summer.
We just demand a guy who can set an edge on stretch, down block, and generally hold his own blocking wise.
We want a 6 man surface to set the front, and that TE must be able to block.
Now, we can get by with a guy who can only run flats and drags, so if we had to, a third offensive tackle works......but for this cat, we are gonna find numerous ways to get him the rock.
So, in one respect what we value is rigid (TE), but we are modular around what that kid brings skills wise and will adjust.
Everything else offensively is modular......qb can be anything, as long as smart and a leader.....RB can a bruiser or scat back......WR can be shifty or tall.....OL demands size at center, but adjustable after that.
But TE....after a QB and RB1, he is a MUST.
Defensively, we want the best front four we can get, and our best dude at MIKE.
Sam and Will are robots, secondary is modular to skill set.....but if we don't have a mike, and our strong safety is our best run and hit guy, he's getting moved.
So, after talking this through:
Offense gets qb, rb, TE, center
Defense gets front four and Mike
Then catch as catch can.
That being said, a two-way 3 tech may also be my best center, even if fatigued......we try to keep 2 way guys to a minimum. Especially on the O and D lines.
Some years, we may only have 3-5 two way starters. Other years, we are 7-8......
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Post by carookie on Jul 15, 2017 13:02:01 GMT -6
I think establishing arbitrary numbers for each side to choose or having a draft is the wrong way to do it.
You have to analyze things on a case by case basis and then measure where you think you would be with each outcome. For example if you have a kid who is a stud RB and a stud LBer you need to evaluate a few things:
1) How good would the replacement player be behind him at each position? To what extent (estimate pts per possessions and turnovers) would you be better on each side of the ball with him there as opposed to a replacement?
2) What kind of stamina does he have and how well could he perform at each position relative to the replacement player (also how would his production drop at any single position by playing and practicing both).
3) What does your practice schedule look like, do you have players two platoon as is? Could you alter your schedule to a modified single platoon system where players play on either side of the ball?
Having a policy of letting one side get first pick or one position get first pick may appear to work, but as a coach we have to evaluate and project for the future quite a bit. Taking it case by case is the best way to do so.
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Post by 53 on Jul 15, 2017 13:58:09 GMT -6
I've never coached at a school that has great or even good numbers. We start with our worst player and work our way up filling positions.
Generally a stud can play anywhere, but the hard part is finding jobs for your average and below players
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Post by bobgoodman on Jul 16, 2017 7:49:08 GMT -6
How do you folks prioritize your players as far as playing offense, defense, or both? My approach is that unless you have an offensive player that you can't do without - such as a QB or a hoss RB who's going to get a ton of carries - that defense has priority over personnel. The player may play both ways, but if it's one or the other it's definitely defense. I say this because the offense chooses the point of attack and any talent deficiencies are more easily exploited on the defensive side of the ball for that reason. This is a good reason to keep your worst players off the defense, but not a good reason to have your best players play defense. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Jul 16, 2017 9:13:41 GMT -6
In a perfect world we would have the offense take a QB, RB, and 2 OL, rest to starting defense. However some kids are just defensive players just like some kids are just offensive players, so we could end up with a stronger offense or defense based on the natural fit of our kids. At our school we're also working with only 2 coaches so there is no two platoon. I think your some kids are just offensive players and others are just defense is especially true with OL/DL. They usually take different skill sets and IME there aren't a ton of guys out there at are GREAT at both sides. If they are then there's a debate, but usually it isn't a problem. For me, I really just want my QB and then the defense can have whoever since we are a spread team. If I can get another weapon then great. If not, it's on me to figure out how we are going to move the ball. I know I've been blessed with some talent where I am at, but never have I said "no idea in hell how we are gonna score this year." Last year we threw the ball 90% of the time. This year I think we are gonna run about 75% of the time. There's always a way to get it done though. |
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Post by rsmith627 on Jul 16, 2017 9:16:46 GMT -6
In a perfect world we would have the offense take a QB, RB, and 2 OL, rest to starting defense. However some kids are just defensive players just like some kids are just offensive players, so we could end up with a stronger offense or defense based on the natural fit of our kids. At our school we're also working with only 2 coaches so there is no two platoon. I think your some kids are just offensive players and others are just defense is especially true with OL/DL. They usually take different skill sets and IME there aren't a ton of guys out there at are GREAT at both sides. If they are then there's a debate, but usually it isn't a problem. For me, I really just want my QB and then the defense can have whoever since we are a spread team. If I can get another weapon then great. If not, it's on me to figure out how we are going to move the ball. I know I've been blessed with some talent where I am at, but never have I said "no idea in hell how we are gonna score this year." Last year we threw the ball 90% of the time. This year I think we are gonna run about 75% of the time. There's always a way to get it done though. |
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Post by dytmook on Jul 16, 2017 15:18:41 GMT -6
We try to give kids as singular focus as possible. That being said we have to have guys go both ways.
Only player totally off limits is QB and we've played him at FS in years past if he's good enough to help on passing downs.
Two guys walk into a bar, the third one ducks
Our coordinators draw up their depth at on each side of the ball then we try to label kids primarily offensive or defensive players. We try to keep young guys who are learning on one side as much as possible too. Once we set the Oline they are not to rest on offense unless of emergency.
It has gone pretty well for us. Each side of the ball ends up with some specialized guys and we rotate our better players. So if an olineman is our best option at nose he will play one series, next series goes to another guy, and next to another guy if possible.
This year I think we have 2 WR's on offense only and 2 guys who will rotate the other spot. 1 TE is offense only, other guys are defense first. Top 2 backs are in rotations on defense.
Defense has the FS, 2 CBs, and all the stack LBs as their primary. our hang backers are rotating at the other WR spot and if we have to we can split out our Y if they were both gassed for some reason.
It's not as scientific but we talk it out and worked well for us last year.
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Post by coachwoodall on Jul 16, 2017 15:48:48 GMT -6
I've never coached at a school that has great or even good numbers. We start with our worst player and work our way up filling positions. Generally a stud can play anywhere, but the hard part is finding jobs for your average and below players In a previous life, I worked at a small school and it was 'the best man up ' when it came time to the 'who plays where ' I totally agree about the idea of how do you play your worst starter. That was how we spent most of our coaching discussions. Short story, we had a kid who started 4 years at a D1 AA school at DE. He played OG and DE for us. Any whoo, we nominated him for the post season all star game. We sent film of both offense and defense. The coach recruiting our area said, 'his foot work is sloppy' Our HC said, "Hades, you're complaining about his steps on a trap, have you seen the other OG? We're coaching the Hades out of that guy so we can win. We don't have to coach Jimmy" |
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Post by wildcatslbcoach24 on Jul 17, 2017 12:38:51 GMT -6
Best athletes/ football players at QB and RB (based on scheme) then best players go to conflict positions based on scheme / front/ coverage matters. Usually best players at DE/ OLB and safeties/ overhangs.
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Post by wolverine55 on Jul 17, 2017 14:18:33 GMT -6
I'll admit I personally have not coached in a program big enough to fully two-platoon but when this comes up I always share advice a very successful HC presented in regards to this. He started his program platooning right away at the freshmen level. His only rules were for the freshmen: the best athlete plays QB, the 2nd and 3rd best athletes HAVE to start on defense somewhere, and the OL gets filled in last. Other than that, he said simply to not overthink it; more often than not it'll be clear where a kid should be playing.
His reasoning was that he felt his coaches were good enough to make that athlete a QB--split back veer system--and that if something happened to where that kid didn't spend all four years in the program, hopefully you've kept the other two athletes in the class involved to where they're still out and can move over to the QB spot. He did point out that all of his players had an offensive and defensive position and every practice included a brief ten-minute "secondary position" segment where the kids did indy for their secondary position or even a very brief team session.
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Post by gibbs72 on Jul 20, 2017 9:37:34 GMT -6
IME, the best way is something like this: Get the staff together and hold a draft. Offense gets the top 2 picks for QB and C. Defense gets the next 11. Offense then picks the next 4 OL and can recycle defensive starters to round out the starters at the remaining 5 skill positions. The rest of the players are taught a position on each side of the ball and slotted in accordingly. We are similar. Starting QB goes to offense. If we have 1 agreed-upon stud, he might be placed. Other than that, it's a straight draft and some debating. HFC decides any issues if there are any. |
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